Getting started- Measurement equipment?

[Silversmoky]

Hi. New to the area! I have been lurking around here for almost a year now as a reader just soaking in the wisdom. You guys amaze me! ;x( Have built Jon's Modula MTM's, which I love, Mark K's RS225s, excellent, and I am working on the WTMW RS center channel, along with a couple of subs along the way. Love the designs I have copied but now I am getting a little curious about building my own designs. I searched alot here on what I will need as far as equipment and programs. As far as I can tell I should start with a measurement mic and preamp. Would these be good to go with?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-ULTRAGAIN-PRO-MIC2200?sku=182440

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-B5-Condenser-Microphone?sku=270492

Or would this other behringer mic be better?

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-ECM8000-Microphone?sku=270400

Any suggestions you have are welcomed. I guess once I decide on which set to go with here what would be the next step? Thanks.

[ThomasW]

http://home.comcast.net/~thomasw-2/SubwooferSetupandEQpage10.html

[kevmurray]

External or Internal setup?

I see most recommendations for recording hardware involve external setups. Is this to escape the electrically "noisy" environment of the computer chassis or just for convenience? For example I was looking at the M-audio Audiophile 2496 internal card ($105 locally) and it claims a best of 24bit resolution at 96kHz. The Mobile-pre external ($140 locally) claims a best of 16bit resolution at 48kHz. The only reason for the higher price that I can see is the phantom power for the mic. Is this feature really that expensive?

[ThomasW]

The only reason for the higher price that I can see is the phantom power for the mic. Is this feature really that expensive?

See the link I posted above....

[Silversmoky]

Thanks for the link Thomas. I have been going over it alot. The M-Audio unit seems like a nice option. So I would need this unit and the behringer test mic correct? The sound card thing is throwing me a little. I guess I know so little about it that it's confusing me somewhat. Would the soundcard that this unit has work well with programs such as soundeasy or lspcad? (Haven't decided which yet and I know there is alot of opinions! Do I need a more advanced sound card of some kind?

[JonW]

Silver,

The following links might be of some help. They were for me. Probably the first two more so with regard to hardware than the third. People here have really helped me a lot. Have fun.

-Jon

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23212

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25077

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23688

[augerpro]

I see most recommendations for recording hardware involve external setups. Is this to escape the electrically "noisy" environment of the computer chassis or just for convenience? For example I was looking at the M-audio Audiophile 2496 internal card ($105 locally) and it claims a best of 24bit resolution at 96kHz. The Mobile-pre external ($140 locally) claims a best of 16bit resolution at 48kHz. The only reason for the higher price that I can see is the phantom power for the mic. Is this feature really that expensive?

Probably because most of use laptops for measuring because they are portable.

[Dennis H]

The only reason for the higher price that I can see is the phantom power for the mic. Is this feature really that expensive?

It's more than the phantom power; you need a mic preamp. That said, the Rolls preamp on Thomas's page works just fine so, if your desktop PC is conveniently located for measuring, a good internal soundcard and a Rolls would be a great setup. What you don't want to do is use the built-in soundcard in either laptops or desktops. They have lots of noise and distortion. You need a good soundcard and a mic preamp with phantom power. They can be in one external (USB or Firewire) box or split between a soundcard and an external preamp.

[Silversmoky]

Hey thanks JonW for those links. I have actually poured over those very three threads for hours. I have alot of the same questions that you had. I read over all of them again and I caught alot more and much more made sense, so some of this must be starting to sink in a little I have decided to get the m-audio unit with the behringer ecm8000 and the cables. I noticed in one of the threads you went with lspcad. Did you get the standard or the pro version? and do you like using this setup? Also with this setup do you also need the room eq program? Sorry if these questions are going in circles!!

[JonW]

Hey thanks JonW for those links. I have actually poured over those very three threads for hours. I have alot of the same questions that you had. I read over all of them again and I caught alot more and much more made sense, so some of this must be starting to sink in a little I have decided to get the m-audio unit with the behringer ecm8000 and the cables. I noticed in one of the threads you went with lspcad. Did you get the standard or the pro version? and do you like using this setup? Also with this setup do you also need the room eq program? Sorry if these questions are going in circles!!

Hi Silver,

Glad to hear the links were helpful. Well, it was all the people who posted that were actually helpful.

My thoughts on LspCAD... I got the standard versions, not the pro, and that's A-OK for my newbie uses. I've got some more speaker projects in mind after the current one is done. And I doubt I'll ever need the pro version. Is LspCAD worth the money? It depends on how much your time is worth versus your cash. I have a pretty demanding job and my free time is quite scarce. I didn't want to waste many days fighting with one of the free programs. And I've found crossover design with LspCAD to be a pretty pleasant experience. It's not slick and super easy, but it's OK. So for me it was definitely worth the price. But some people are quite happy with the free programs out there.

Collecting measurement data has given me a lot of headaches. I used the JustMLS software as part of LspCAD. I didn't find that so fun. Maybe I had trouble with some hardware issues, maybe not. Brief version: It looked like one channel of my MobilePre USB was bad, I had it replaced, a problem persisted and I've moved on knowing the limitations. It may well be my inexperience. Not sure. If you want all the gory details:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25031

Not sure what you mean about a room EQ program. I do use Room EQ Wizard for the rare times I want to measure my sub or get all my speakers to the same level, but that's about it. That's with the ECM8000 mic. I don't have an SPL meter.

Regarding the topic of laptops, I find that it's easiest to do my measurements in one room and my crossover design at a desk elsewhere. So having the PC be portable is a nice thing.

Good luck with it all. It's a slippery slope and I'm afraid to say that I'm now done for. I blame it all on the people here.

-Jon

[kevmurray]

It's more than the phantom power; you need a mic preamp... <snip> ...What you don't want to do is use the built-in soundcard in either laptops or desktops. They have lots of noise and distortion...

Thank you Dennis. :T

[Silversmoky]

Hey Jon. Thanks again for the input. I am right with you on spending a little money innitially to save possible headaches later. I have been playing a little with the demo version of lspcad and I think I am starting to get the hang of it although there are tons of things that I don't quite understand. But I thought that maybe with the manual and time I would get more of it. It seems like a nice program to use.
I noticed you said you had a little trouble with measurement taking and that you switched to something different from the m audio unit. I was curious what you switched to. Do you think that Justmls is enough for measurement taking or do you think it would be better with something else. I am not quite ready to spring for Praxis....yet I guess I am leaning toward getting pretty good stuff right off the bat and save upgrading and getting used to something different in a little while.
In the process of reading your first build thread. Sounds good so far to me!

[Silversmoky]

Been going over my options the last month or so trying to figure out which modeling program I would like to use and which measurement program. Overall I really like lspcad the best but I am a little hesitant because it only has justmls for measurement. Soundeasy seems like it is the best package for the price but still I lean towards Lspcad. I really like the looks of Fuzzmeasure since I am probably getting a Mac soon anyway. I was curious if anybody knows if I can use fuzzmeasure for measurement on my mac and then transport data to my desktop pc where lspcad will be installed since lspcad only works with pc's? With this setup was also considering using the maudio firewire units. Anyone have experience with these at all? Thanks.

[Silversmoky]

Answered one of my own questions here. I guess macs are even more capable than I thought. You are able to run lspcad on a mac if you install xp or vista into there boot camp program. So for anybody else that might be wondering about this, it is possible. So I will probably run everything through the mac. Does anyone have experience with either the m-audio firewire solo or 410?

[critofur]

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[ThomasW]

Is TheAudioWorx temp. down?

Loads fine for me