Are inwalls worth a try?

[ekkoville]

At some point when the speaker upgrade begins, I may look at inwalls depending on the style of display I use. So many companies feature them, but there are not a lot of them on display. KevinP suggested PSB, and I have researched quite a bit, but how many you guys have actually heard them. One that intrigues me is the Polk LC265i inwall with an enclosure that goes in the wall and is 55" long. Any and all input is welcome.

Erik

[Shane Martin]

If you are seriously looking at in walls then I'd strongly consider Triad. I wasn't a huge fan of their subs but their in walls produced a very natural sound and are very good for the $$. Polk's LSI's are good too.

[David Meek]

Erik, in-walls can, and I stress can, be very good sounding speakers. They have some requirements and limitations that good planning and construction can overcome. The two major ones I immediately think of:

Soundstaging. As the drivers are set flush with a large, flat, resonant surface (the face of the wall) these speakers won't have a deep, 3D soundstage but can have a decent side-to-side and top-to-bottom one. Having a steerable tweeter and/or mid will help this also. If you go with a center channel that is the same model, it'll help too.

Sonic clarity. Being immersed in a hollow (generally) and flexible (moderately) environment, can easily cause tonal imbalances as the speaker generates soundwaves in the wall cavity and resonates/vibrates as the wall re-acts to the motion/energy of the drivers. Closing off the wall cavity above and below the speaker enclosure with doubled horizontal bracing that is the same depth as the wall stud, ie. (no 2x4 bracing in a 2x6 wall) and adding extra studs beside the existing ones to the left and right of the enclosure for added stiffening will mitigate most of the flex. Stuffing the rest of the wall cavities above, below and beside with wool or other inert damping material will mitigate the resonant effects of the wall. You could always pour sand in the wall cavities for a VERY inert wall section (that's a joke ).

Best of luck with your project. Take pictures and post 'em as you go, okay?

[ekkoville]

Thanks guys, I never thought of the imaging issues with the inwalls. Some manufacture's like Legacy, etc., have onwalls. Do they have the same issues, or is the small distance from the wall enough to make a difference?

As for the filling, the Polk model fills its wall eclosure with batting. A good option, albeit tough to cut open the wall that much when it's not new construction. Alot will depend on the cabinet that houses everything. You mentioned the sonic characteristics of the wall, I had thought of an A/V rack with side cabinets and possibly using the top shelf as a sealed enclosure to house an inwall. Are the sonic properties of the cabinet in that form to much to overcome even if sealed and filled with batting.

Erik

[David Meek]

The same principles still apply, but they'll be somewhat lessened due to the cabinetry being smaller than a wall.

[ekkoville]

David, if the cabinet is open in the back, is that OK? Or, should the cabinet be sealed and dampened? I am afraid if the speaker is mounted in a would cabinet with an open back, I may get a hollow or boxy sound, especially in the mids.

Erik

[David Meek]

Yes, I definitely think you'll get some funky sounds out of an in-wall that is put into an open-backed cabinet. Being in-walls, they are designed to go into a wall cavity which generally is enclosed on all sides, top and bottom. Actually Eric, this is a good question to ask of our speaker designer/builders over in our Mission Possible DIY forum. They may tell you that you'll get great sound - but I just don't see how. :??

Mind if I move this thread over there?

[ekkoville]

No David, not at all. The more input the better.

Erik

[aud19]

There was just a very favourable review of some PSB in-walls in Home Theatre Magazine. Not a bad idea to have a look at them I've always liked PSB's, very neutral and musical.

Jason

[David Meek]

Hmmm. Appears it already got moved. Thanks Mr. Pratt.

[Dennis H]

There's a lot to be said for using inwalls (or better yet through wall infinite baffles) in a surround system. Most surround systems have DPL2 or Logic7 so that can take care of the soundstage problems. It seems to work best in acoustically dead rooms. The ambience from reflections interferes with the ambience from the electronics so it's better to kill the reflections.

Some people from AVS visited Jim Fosgate's reference room (with inwall/IB speakers) shortly after DPL2 was released and they were blown away by the sound quality on everything from vinyl to DVD movies. He uses 5 LARGE speakers - 8 10" woofers each - and no sub. Here are a couple of articles with pics of his evolving room. He has it wired up for side and back-center speakers but, so far, he hasn't felt the need to install them. The 4 corners and front-center are good enough.

PDF not available

JimFos_4-2001.pdf

[ThomasW]

Buy a pair of Maggie MMG's $550/pr and mount them in-wall. :wink:

[ekkoville]

Funny you should say Maggie's, Thomas. Found the MMG W and MMG C via another thread awhile back. I was amazed at the price for what has always been a top notch manufacturer. I think they mount on wall, correct? If it is possible, mounting inwalls in a cabinet that is part of the display cabinet sounds appealing. I am just worried about the tonal imbalances that David thought I might create.

Erik

[ThomasW]

The newer 'baby' maggies are designed to mount at an angle to the wall, using the wall to boost the bass. They're about 1/2 the size of a MMG and don't have much output below 120Hz.



With a little DIY bracket work MMGs can also be mounted at an angle to the wall. They will work fine like that. HERE and HERE are a couple examples of DIY brackets for wall mounting MMGs.