Look what Solen sent me!

[RonS]

I was expecting to wait 8-10wks for these, then I got a call from Solen saying that someone had backed out of their commitment for the first shipment (can you believe it?!), so I got them :B

[RonS]

Now I have to decide what to do with them. I'm either going to go with Jon's unorthodox 2 way, with an Avalon type cabinet like this:

[JonMarsh]

So Solen's has got the goods, and now you do to!!


That's great to hear!


I"ve still got my fingers crossed that I won't have to work this weekend (too much), and will get to work on the Arvo's.


Happy Friday!

~Jon

[RonS]

Or maybe the Arvo Part, but with different woofers (I have 4 pieces of the Madisound 1252DVC that Linkwitz used in his commercial speakers as well as the Phoenix). Tweeter of choice will be the XT25 because I already have them.

My basement room is 12'w x 17'8" l x 6'8" high. Listening couch is right up against the back wall, the wall behind the speakers is wall to wall/floor to ceiling Ikea Ivar open shelving.

What speaker do you guys recommend, the 2 way or the Arvo (considering I want to use the 1252 woofers)? Amp is an NAD272, 150watts into 8ohms.

[Andrew Pratt]

Congrat's on finally getting the drivers:T

[RonS]

Congrat's on finally getting the drivers:T

well, since I only ordered them on July 9, I didn't actually have to wait that long

Now I have to decide what to do with them :roll:

[Bam!]

I was expecting to wait 8-10wks for these, then I got a call from Solen saying that someone had backed out of their commitment for the first shipment (can you believe it?!), so I got them :B

Call me really stupid here......

But Solen....the one in Longueil,....Quebec..... ? :E

If so.....what a small world a rooney!

My bad....as I am totally off topic!

[Ten 99]

Sweet! Is that picture a pretty good representation of the cone coloring? It's a lot less harsh than some pictures I've seen (the gold).

If that's pretty accurate, I could get along with that.

[JonMarsh]

Sweet! Is that picture a pretty good representation of the cone coloring? It's a lot less harsh than some pictures I've seen (the gold).

If that's pretty accurate, I could get along with that.

Well, now, you know, do you have a D6500 calibrated display, etc? The color is a bit more yellow, at least for the ones I have.



This is fairly realistic of what they look like, on my display, but without knowing if your desktop is color calibrated, it could look quite a bit different- like it does on my IBM laptop, which is a POS as far as color accuracy goes.

YMMV!

~Jon

[JonMarsh]

Or maybe the Arvo Part, but with different woofers (I have 4 pieces of the Madisound 1252DVC that Linkwitz used in his commercial speakers as well as the Phoenix). Tweeter of choice will be the XT25 because I already have them.

My basement room is 12'w x 17'8" l x 6'8" high. Listening couch is right up against the back wall, the wall behind the speakers is wall to wall/floor to ceiling Ikea Ivar open shelving.

What speaker do you guys recommend, the 2 way or the Arvo (considering I want to use the 1252 woofers)? Amp is an NAD272, 150watts into 8ohms.

I'd have to take a look at those woofers to see what they might require, and if they're in the right sensitivity range for the passive crossover. Doing a hybrid crossover like ThomasW's, with active LF crossover and active/passive HF is possible, but it's not necessairly easy, as some additional EQ tweak has to be done in the area below 500Hz. I'd have to think about that...

~Jon

[RonS]

Bam, yes the Solen in Quebec. Hey, I'm only across the border in the Big Smoke! (Toronto) so Solen is great to deal with, Dominique is sooo sweet

Ten 99, as Jon mentioned, is your monitor calibrated at all? Now mine IS, as I'm a commercial photographer On my calibrated monitor, Jon's woofers are much more yellow than mine. His remind me of kevlar woofers, while mine are a really nice champagne colour, you know the stuff that the Japanese reserve for their "high end" products. I really like it. I think the colour discrepancy is probably due to the mismatch between the colour balance of Jon's monitor and mine.

[RonS]

I'd have to take a look at those woofers to see what they might require, and if they're in the right sensitivity range for the passive crossover. Doing a hybrid crossover like ThomasW's, with active LF crossover and active/passive HF is possible, but it's not necessairly easy, as some additional EQ tweak has to be done in the area below 500Hz. I'd have to think about that...

~Jon

Yes, I suppose an easy way would be to use a combination active/passive setup with 2 amps, although I"d like to avoid that if possible. I'll be interested to hear what you think is possible. The other question is how low can the M8A's go on a dipole panel. The 1252DVC in a 12" deep H frame is only good to around 100Hz, starting at 150Hz there is a box resonance (I have thought of suppressing it with some stuffing, but haven't tried it yet.)

[JonMarsh]

Yes, I suppose an easy way would be to use a combination active/passive setup with 2 amps, although I"d like to avoid that if possible. I'll be interested to hear what you think is possible. The other question is how low can the M8A's go on a dipole panel. The 1252DVC in a 12" deep H frame is only good to around 100Hz, starting at 150Hz there is a box resonance (I have thought of suppressing it with some stuffing, but haven't tried it yet.)

It's tricky doing the dipole thing and optimizing the bass. Depending on the depth of the H frame, you do get a zero in the response which result in a lift in the acoustic transfer function. This is not a bad thing IF the woofer is a relatively high inductance jobbie and the lift offsets the inductive roll off. Above about 200 Hz, you get an acoustical LP effect as the lift/resonance dies out. So, if you compensate the upper portion of the lift with your crossover, then you have to have a zero in the crossover transfer function at that point. Doin this with a conventional active crossover is hard, which is part of why Thomas's H frames (well, really U frames) are only 8" deep. Less peaking, less interaction with crossover, but more LF EQ required below 70 Hz.

Trade-offs, trade-offs. There's no right or wrong one, in absolute terms, just figuring out a way to get the job done at reasonable cost. I plan to put some damping in the U frame, but at this time the current crossover plots don't look too bad without it- just should be able to tame the 170 Hz region a little more.

~Jon

BTW, my monitor is calibrated, but the pics I do with my old Sony camera for audio usually aren't, especially since the only color profile I have for it is for outdoor photography. I also think there is significant variation in the finish, judging from the normal problems with gold anodize and getting it the same shade all the time! Still, the color of the driver diaphram is NOT one of my main concerns... ;^) though I do like the TC2+ a lot in that regard!

[RonS]

Jon, I'm with you re: the finish, although I would have prefered simple black.

Here is pretty much what I'm getting for a response in my Hframe:

[RonS]

By the way, how do you guys get your images to be LARGE, and also to put type after our images?? I only seem to be able to have small thumbs (which open into larger images) and they are always after my typed post.

[aud19]

You have to go back and edit your post once you've got the thumbnail and put image tags around the address of the "larger image" :T

Jason

[Andrew Pratt]

I shouldn't ask but could you use Tempests in an Avro?

To get the large image do the upload as you normally do then click on the link so that it opens to a new window. Now copy that URL and paste it into the message. Now highlight the URL and then click the small yellow sqaure with the two mountians on it...this will add the I-M-G tags around the URL so that it shows up like you want. Click on the Edit button on your post now and you'll see what I mean since I've taken the liberty of editing your post for you.

Here's my M8a's in my mains

Image not available

[Ten 99]

Is my monitor calibrated? Well, as calibrated as it can be with the simple software that comes with it. I didn't calibrate it with a color spyder or the likes. I did recently have my old Hitachi 19" CRT poop on me. I was wanting it to hold out for quite a while longer so I wouldn't have to get a new monitor. It's sad that when I bought that monitor it was about $900 and some change. You could get a comparable monitor now for $200 or so. At any rate, I went with a 19" Samsung 191T+ to replace it. Very happy with the monitor, but not sure just how accurate it is on color renditions. Sure is a hell of a lot easier on the eyes! It was a $650 setback that I wasn't looking forward to.

Well, even if it is a more "rich" color of gold, I can live with it. I would probably rather see the more champagne-like color, but that's life. Of course Jon, I can't argue that asthetics have to take a back seat to performance, but why can't we eat cake too? Call up Hi-Vi for us (will ya) and get those dudes to start doing the charcoal grey to black look that those TC2+ drivers have

[RonS]

Andrew, thanks for the tips on the large images :P Now I'll be able to condense some of my multiple posts into one. By the way, how do you like your M8A speakers? Any impressions you care to share?

Ten 99, my 3 monitors are not calibrated with a spyder either, but I can assure you that they are in excellent agreement with what I get when my images go to press, or to the digital lab where I get my happy snaps printed. Email me if you want further details, as it's waaay off topic

[Andrew Pratt]

By the way, how do you like your M8A speakers? Any impressions you care to share?

I really like them. The mid range from these Hi-Vi's is amazing and when ported they can extend down really low so you'll have no problems running them as large for music. The tweeters give a nice wide soundstage and aren't shrill by any stretch of the imagination.

I've had a local fellow hear them and he claims they sound very similar to his Swan's which isn't surprising given they share similar drivers (swan uses the 6" woofer and we use the same tweeter). So you might want to see if there's any Swan owners near you that you can go over and listen to their speakers. From what I gather the XO topology is quite different but its as close as you're going to get short of finding one of us that actually built the M8a

[JonMarsh]

Jon, I'm with you re: the finish, although I would have prefered simple black.

Here is pretty much what I'm getting for a response in my Hframe:

A quasi "near field" measurement of an H frame dipole has the effect of boosting the bottome end (especially below 75-100 Hz) over what it would measure/sound like at a typical listening position. They don't seem to have the 1252 DVC at Madisound any more, though they do have the 1052. They have a different 12, with dual 4 ohm coils; again, the sensitivity (nominal) is around 90 dB, which is OK, but the specs for the 12 aren't in the PDF. And Xmax for the 1052 is only 6 mm?!? Do you have a spec sheet for the 1252?

I found some measurements by Sigfried on my "cache" of his site from a year or so ago; the 1252 has problems with symmetric flux and non-linear BL product, so it walks the VC out of the gap when you try higher excursions, especially in a dipole; this limits the usable excursion to 1/4" or less, and at some frequencies not even that (combination of suspension and magnetic system non-linearities results in two conditionally stable rest points, and it doesn't effectively preserve 6 mm Xmax).

Based on SL's evals, I'd recommend not using these for a dipole; if you're committed to using them with what you might make with the M8a's for now, you'd probably be better off doing an Avalon style box, and using the 1252's in a box type enclosure for now. This will get you the most clean SPL's for the money. The thing about dipole's is that you do need some cone area and clean woofers to get some decent output; witness the Arvo Part which Thomas has, with DPL12s, which are quite linear drivers, but two per side are "OK", while 4 per side really allows the system to "sing".

OTOH, if you just want to play with the concept, and don't plan on pushing things, you can start with the 1252 DVC, then upgrade the woofers as soon as it's feasible to something a bit more capable. Your call, of course!

~Jon

[RonS]

Jon, here are the specs I have from Madisound:
Fs 15Hz
Rscc 11.2 ohms
VcL @ 1k .3mH
Qms 4.1
Qes .39
Qts .36 (Linkwitz measured them and says this is higher)
Mmd 78g
Cms (um/N) 1331.4
Vas 533 Litres
Xmax 6mm pk
Efficiency about 91dB
Power 100 50/50watts
Magnet 30 oz.

These are dual 8 ohm coils.

Linkwitz used these in all of his Audio Artistry speakers (which were very well reviewed), and his Phoenix W frame style woofers. Somewhere on his site there is a spreadsheet that shows the maximum spl obtainable with these woofers. While I realise that these are not the best, they were cheap and I have them. I also have a pair of original Titanic 1200 woofers, although one of them is in a home theatre sub. I could use them, but I'd only have 1 per side, unless I can pick up another pair (a possibility). Linkwitz does use a lot of boost eq with these woofers.

Still, the first question I should answer (or more likely you should answer) is which system would suit my room dimensions best, taking into account the amp that I have available to drive them (NAD 272 150watts into 8 ohms). I have wanted to try a dipole for quite some time, however the appeal of the Avalon style speaker is that the crossover is complete and well tested, while I would have to do some serious work to build a dipole with the woofers that I have available.

Thanks for all of your advice!

Ron

[RonS]

Jon, what do you think of the HiVi M12? Since I only paid $45CDN for the M8A from Solen, I would imagine that the M12 would not be that much more expensive. Would it be suitable for the low end of a dipole?

[JonMarsh]

Ron,

How comfy is the NAD with lower impedance loads? Like 4 ohms? The reason I ask is in regards to the impedance of a full Arvo system with pasive crossover. Though the midwoofers are wired in series in my arrangement, the tweeter (whether an XT25 or the SS9800 is 4 ohms, and depending on the wiring arrangements for the dipole woofers, you may end up with a 3-4 ohm load.

With the DVC's, you have two options- use both voice coils in each driver (net 4 0hms), and wire the drivers in series to get a net 8 ohms. The other possibility, since these are not so much VC power limited in a dipole as excursion limited, is to only use one voice coil for each driver; you could leave the other open, or adjust damping with a resistor across the terminals. This would give you a higher Q setup (OK for dipole) and might not hurt efficinecy too much. Then, you'd use VC's in parallel. With your NAD, the former setup (with 8 ohm net load) may be the better choice, but it will probably have a litttle lower sensitivity, as it will pull less juice from the amp.

One other factor is that the iductor values for 8 ohms are even higher than for 4 ohms... the inductors for this in passive mode are a bit dear. We build a lot of ours, but for these, I went to NorthCreek for AWG 12 jobbies with low (relatively) DCR. When I'm assembling the crossovers (was going to be this weekend, but work is a problem again), I'll post pics and BOM's.

Now, regarding what SL used in the Audio Artistry models... we all have learning curves, including SL. He used the ScanSpeak kevlar midwoofers in the AA also, and those are quite problematic, too, IMO.

Example:


Impedance Curve SS



The glitches in the impedance curve correspond with cone modes- this is a free air sweep.

Mutliple Near field (3/4") sweep- center, mid, cone edge




First cone modes at 800 Hz.


HiVi M8a





Maybe a plan to consider is putting a configuration together for your which is upgradeable to in improved driver configuration (woofers) when you're ready?

BTW, the dipole thing really is pretty dang nice.... I think they'd work fine in your basement room.

~Jon

[ThomasW]

Ron,

We haven't had an opportunity play with the M12's. We ask PE to get some and that hasn't happened.

I can say that unless you plan on using 8 or more that they'll won't do well for an actual 'sub'. When I originally built my Arvo's I was running them full (4-12" woofers, no sub) they really lack adequate bottom end. That's why I created the 'Ultra' design to get more displacement for the lowest octaves. Now 8-12"s dipole mounted woofers still didn't have bottom end as good as that from the 4-12" IB sub in the same room. Go figure?

Also note that the M-12's only have 7.2mm of Xmax. The woofers we're using in the Arvo design have 20mm of Xmax.

[JonMarsh]

Yeah, I've wanted to get my hands on the M12 for a while- sensitivity is good, and top end is quite clean. Could be usable in a dipole with my RD50 ribbons, for example.

I wish the Xmax were a bit higher. Like double! But the sensitivity is pretty phenomenal. Four of these per side might work pretty well- it would take 4-6 to equal the LF output capability of two TC2+. And the TC2+ is pretty well behaved in the upper end, too, considering the cone mass.

~Jon

[Dennis H]

You can get the M12 directly from Swans for $82. I clicked the add to cart button and then the hand order button. It seemed to work, giving an order form to fax to Swans USA. That looks like a heckuva bargain, well below the Solen price. Swans also has the M8a for $125 but that's too high. The M8N button forwards you to the PE page.

Value wise, it looks to me like they have the prices reversed on the M8a and the M12 but what the heck. Get 'em while they're hot.

[ThomasW]

Dennis,

If you want an interesting experience call Swan, and ask them about driver availability..... :wink:

[RonS]

Jon, I'm not sure how comfortable the NAD is with 4 ohm loads, I'll call them on Monday and ask the designer (they're one of my clients, along with PSB). The spec sheet only mentions IHF power into 4 ohms. My original idea was to go for an 8ohm configuration a la SL. I do like the idea of using these madisound drivers for now, and upgrading when funding permits. Perhaps I should do it as a hybrid though, to save money on those large inductors and for ease of setup with the HiVi drivers. Do you think the M8A could be driven lower than 220Hz? Like down to around 100Hz?

ThomasW, it doesn't surprise me that 4IB drivers still beat 8 dipole drivers. SL has made calculations that show that it requires 4 dipole drivers to equal 1 sealed box woofer, so going by that you'd need 16 dipole drivers :W

I'll call Solen on Monday and see wha'ts up with the M12, maybe they got some in last week? That would be cool, even cooler would be if they didn't cost much more than the M8A.

Although I'd love to do this dipole thing (have been wanting to for several years!) I'm kind of leaning towards building the 2 way mkIV speaker, it's a proven design, I have all of the drivers, the cabinet won't take me long to build, and the crossover will be relatively inexpensive (I estimate around $200CDN). I have 2 other guys who need/want speakers, I think that they would be much more interested in the 2 way project than a full blown dipole. I must admit to being somewhat sad about this, but I don't want to start a project that isn't totally complete and well documented (I've done that in the past, that's how I wound up with Vifa MG22 drivers and all of those madisound woofers, never mind the active 3 way crossover that I built for this thing and is not working correctly). With my drivers, there would have to be major changes to the low end of the crossover, including the midrange panel, and I'm just not up for that (I do have IMP/M and SEv3.3, but that version is a pain in the *** to use, never did get it going well. I wish I had bought LspCAD. I also have Xopt, but it doesn't seem to want to import my IMP files). Maybe once my 2 way is finished and I have something decent to listen to, I would tackle the dipole.

Cheers,
Ron

[JonMarsh]

Hi Ron,


If you take the M8's down to 120 Hz or so, as Linkwitz does in the Orion, then you need more EQ control- you have not only the panel-basket bump in the 250-300 Hz region to notch out, one also has dipole roll off to contend with. That's why I picked the 200-220 Hz region, becuase it made the various "necessary" things easier to do; it also extends the SPL capability of the system.

I believe a copy of the working Arvo Schematic is on the CD I sent you. You can get a good idea of the cost and complexity from that.

The existing design is based around having 8 ohm woofers, in parallel for 4 ohm net load. Several possible woofer candidates were 4 ohms, as is common for HT woofers; this is not as "favorable", because two in series is 8 ohms (lowers working sensitivity) and two in parallel are impossible for anything less than an Aragon or Krell to drive.

The FTC power rating on your NAD will be based on the 1 hour thermal pre-heating requirement; a lot of amps can't really tolerate that down at 4 ohms, so they aren't rated. But it may be find driving 4 ohm loads. OTOH, an amp that handles two ohms (like the Aragon's- I sometimes call them "poor man's Krells) doesn't get phased by 3 or 4 ohms) breezes through that.

What's your firm time frame on wanting/needing to build these? I'm expecting to have my Arvo's up by the No. CA DIY meet in mid September. Is that too late for you to hold off on a decision? Note, the tweeter crossover winds up being the same, excepting the Lpad values (you could use the 4 ohm adjustable pad from PE on a temp basis.)

Funny you mention SE V3.3, I have a copy of that, too, but it won't run under XP or WIN2K because the dongle driver isn't compatible with those OS's.

Best regards,

Jon

[RonS]

Hi Jon,

Well, change of plans. My SO veto'd the large dipole plan. Truethfully the kids use the basement as their playroom, so it wouldn't be ideal. She didn't even like the regular M8A box. If it was "slim" she wouldn't mind so much, but 12x25x14.5 is just a bit much for her. So now I'm trying to figure out how to make the box look "slimmer". If I bevel the front baffle a la Avalon, it might help. Other option is to build the bookshelf version that you did for ThomasW, but how does that affect depth of image etc.? I don't have the crossover info for that one, or the box size/tuning. Would you mind sending that to me?

What would be the effect of narrowing the box down to 10.5" wide? I know that the baffle step would change, but by how much?

Finally, time frame is dictated by weather. Since I'm in Toronto, and my workshop is in an unheated garage, I really need to finish construction by the end of October, otherwise it just gets too cold to work safely. Even at that point, I'll need to do the veneering and finishing indoors, which is not ideal because of the fumes.

Thanks again,
Ron

[JonMarsh]

I'm on my way out on a biz trip today- not much time to respond.

The "standard" M8 two way has 1.5" thick walls- so with 12" overall width, the internal width is only 9". Slimming it down to 10.5 would require some tuning of BSC, and either a deeper box to keep same volume, or mandatory subwoofer.

I don't recommend thinner walls- keeping the encsloure walls from "talking" too much is part of what makes these sound better than the average bear in the upper mid bass and lower mids.

The ones built for Thomas were intended to wall mount, and subwoofer- for this reason, the enclosure size was reduced to tune the LF Q for a sealed box alignment and higher Fb, and BSC was mostly eliminated due to wall boundary loading. Is that the situation you need/prefer? Or some variation- like small, but on stands away from wall, with BSC?

Let me know.

I'll be back in town on Wednesday.

~Jon

[RonS]

I'm on my way out on a biz trip today- not much time to respond.

The ones built for Thomas were intended to wall mount, and subwoofer- for this reason, the enclosure size was reduced to tune the LF Q for a sealed box alignment and higher Fb, and BSC was mostly eliminated due to wall boundary loading. Is that the situation you need/prefer? Or some variation- like small, but on stands away from wall, with BSC?

~Jon

Jon, one of the options is to mount the cabinet on my bookshelf, but I was wondering how much this would affect the imaging capabilities and the open sound. Obviously this would either need to be front ported or sealed.

The other option is a smaller variation, but on stands away from the wall with BSC. But I can't see how this is possible while keeping the walls at 1.5" thick. What I would really want at this point is to build the mkIV cabinets, but I can't see how my SO will accept it size. Maybe if I built some sort of matrix style cabinet a la B&W, I could save 1.5" on the width. How much would this affect the crossover and BSC?

Oh I wish I had a bigger house :cry:

Thanks for all of your replies, none of this is a huge hurry, I'm going out of town on Saturday for a week (a needed family vacation) but would like to start on something as soon as I get back.

Cheers,
Ron

[RonS]

Just spoke with Solen, they have 4 pieces of the HiVi M12 in stock. My cost is $101.13CDN. I thought that Jon or Thomas would be interested in testing them.

Cheers,
Ron

[ThomasW]

That's a very nice price. :T

And we thank you for the offer. But things slow down a bit before we can evaluate a new driver.

The only place we're considering the M12's, is as dipole midwoofers/woofers in a line array to be mated with one of the larger B&G RD series planars. With the current focus being the Arvo project, and several electronics projects to follow, there are too many other projects on deck.

[RonS]

No need for thanks Thomas. It's just good to know that the driver is not as ellusive as was thought. Seems like Solen can pretty much get anything from HiVi that they make, either from their stock or in 8-10wks time.

Now if I could only figure out a way to make an M8AmkIV cabinet look slimmer

Cheers,
Ron

[ThomasW]

As you know I shoehorned a M8-MKIII into the Woodstyle WS803 REV box. It was a VERY, VERY, tight fit. In order to use cabinet stiffening crossbracing, I had to make them removable. Otherwise there wasn't enough room for the XO boards. And I spent quite a bit of time just working on the XO component layout so it would all fit in the box.

The box is so small it has no bottom end output at all. But when used with a small sub, it's a very nice system

[RonS]

Thomas, box volume is not the problem per se, but rather the width of the box. I can easily make up the volume by making the box taller and using shorter stands. Or deeper for that matter. In fact a floor stander with a false bottom to hold the crossover would be a neat solution.

I'm working on figureing out how to make the front look "slimmer" by using bevel cuts a la Avalon or more likely Keith Kidders 411 speakers (easier to do with simple jigs). Jon hasn't told me how he managed to do those cuts on his table saw, I do have a 10" Rigid table saw, and a 7.25" skill saw.

Ron

[mante]

Hi-Vi M8a

Hello,

I don’t know whether this is new news, old news, or something else. I spoke with sales at PE this morning, and according to the Hi-Vi purchaser, approximately 48 M8a’s left China sometime in July and should arrive in the US later this month. I’ve ordered forty for my Arvo projects and there are currently two other orders. Anyone interested in attempting a group buy for the SS9800 and the TC+?

Craig
O.K. I only ordered four. :W

[ThomasW]

Mante,

PE no longer sells the M8a, so I assume you mean the M8n?

PE has discontinued the SS9800. That leaves Madisound and Solen. Solen says it will do volume purchases so contact them.

I don't know if Al sold his used 9800 you might contact him

Todd at Oaudio.com will probably do a group buy for the 12" TC2+, if enough people are interested.

Ron,

You'll need to wait for Jon to reply, I know he used his sliding miter table to cut the bevels. I don't think Keith Kidder's method will work for a front baffle as thick as Jon used.

[RonS]

Mante,

Ron,

You'll need to wait for Jon to reply, I know he used his sliding miter table to cut the bevels. I don't think Keith Kidder's method will work for a front baffle as thick as Jon used.

Thomas, I'll probably only do a 1.5" thick front baffle, not Jon's over the top 4" job. This would be for a stand mounted style like in his Audioxpress articles. Just trying to get it to look slimmer from the front, smoke and mirrors.

Cheers,
Ron

[mante]

Hello ThomasW,

Well, this is my first public post and yes, I can easily get confused. First off, you guys are an excellent source of information and thank you for sharing it. This morning I called to order four Hi-Vi M8a's SKU 297-447 from PE. The sales person contacted PE's Hi-Vi buyer and the buyer said "the A's were already on a ship headed for the west coast". Expected date of arrival is before 8/27/04. The salesperson said they anticipated receiving 48 speakers. To date, they have two pending orders.

Thank you for the information regarding a group buy. As Jon will attest, I am very excited about the possibility of making the Arvo's.

Craig

[ThomasW]

mante,

Interesting, something must have put a bee in PE's bonnet. They discontinued and had a closeout sale on the M8a early last spring. Now they not only show it as a catalog item, BUT they've dropped the price to compete with Solen. :rollhead:

[RonS]

mante,

Interesting, something must have put a bee in PE's bonnet. They discontinued and had a closeout sale on the M8a early last spring. Now they not only show it as a catalog item, BUT they've dropped the price to compete with Solen. :rollhead:

Didn't Solen pretty much do the same thing? I know they've only recently started to carry the HiVi drivers again, mine came from their first shipment. Maybe it was an issue with HiVi/Swan?


Ron

[RonS]

Mante,

PE has discontinued the SS9800. That leaves Madisound and Solen. Solen says it will do volume purchases so contact them.

I can offer my services to facilitate a group buy from Solen on the SS9800 tweeters. I get dealer cost from them, which is quite attractive. I'm not sure though how much of a savings it will represent once we figure in shipping from Toronto Canada and Paypal fees (3% I believe). Price break is at 12 pieces for those tweeters, I don't know if I can get a further reduction, but I doubt that there would be enough buyers anyhow.

Please post your comments. I am away for a week starting this Saturday, so this would only be able to happen after the 22nd. I received a letter from Solen today that all prices are increasing 5% on Sept. 1st :cry: so we might want to get our order in before then. Shipping from Solen is very inexpensive, but I would probably recommend Canada Post to deliver them to final buyers.

I hope that this sort of thing is allowed on this board, I apologize if it is not, I'm pretty new around here (but have been hanging out at Madisound for years).

Cheers,
RonS