“Thin” CC suggestions for my NatP’s

[crazyjpeters]

Hi folks. Been a long time since I’ve been on these forums. I’d built a pair of tall NatP’s quite a few years ago. Still have them and love them.

Though not really designed to straddle an entertainment center, that has been their lot in life. I’m looking towards building a center for them, but I am very space constrained. My entertainment center has a slot directly above the screen that is 5.5” high, but quite wide and deep. It has a division in the middle as well but can be removed.

Is there anything that would match my NatPs and fit in this opening? I’m intending on building some surrounds as well, but I’d likely do some modula MTs as I think that was a suggestion for matching the NatPs.

Any significant updates to the NatPs? I heard something about the RS28a tweet going bye-bye. Hope none of my kids ever poke them with something sharp...

[Bear]

I'd start with the second part to your question first. It's going to be your major constraint, rather than something that matches the NatPs sonically. With 5.5" of space top to bottom, you're basically into what is otherwise sound bar territory. For a custom design, you might get away with something like a pair of 12cm drivers in a laid down MTM with a fairly small tweeter offset out of the acoustic center of the two midwoofers. However, it seems like you're looking for a proven design - not a full-bore DIY. If you can't relax the placement issue, this one is tough!

[wkhanna]

for home theater, the center channel does the majority of work, especially for dialog.
but unless all three front speakers are basically the same, you will get variation in the quality of the sound as it moves (pans) across the frontal field.
fro this reason, you generally want to keep all three as close in performance as possible.

my system is used primarily for 2ch music, but i do also have it running an AVR for movies/tv in a 4.2 configuration (no center front speaker).
i just did not want the visual clutter of having a center channel in the room that only used on rare occasion.
i suppose if i heard it with a well-matched center i would definitely notice a difference, but it works just the way it is now for my purposes.

[Bear]

I just came across this one over at DIYAudio:

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/205626-low-profile-center-speaker.html

It also occurs to me that a single full-range might be worth looking at. Also, since I think your placement is above the display, an angled unit would give more baffle area.

[JonMarsh]

I'd start with the second part to your question first. It's going to be your major constraint, rather than something that matches the NatPs sonically. With 5.5" of space top to bottom, you're basically into what is otherwise sound bar territory. For a custom design, you might get away with something like a pair of 12cm drivers in a laid down MTM with a fairly small tweeter offset out of the acoustic center of the two midwoofers. However, it seems like you're looking for a proven design - not a full-bore DIY. If you can't relax the placement issue, this one is tough!

Yes, two difficult requirements here- the 5.5" height limitation, and a finished proven design for that form factor.


I could easily imagine a fairly high performance center that was 6" or so tall, using drivers like the SB15NBAC30 but with a low crossover point to the DA32TX00-08... probably 1400-1500Hz.















But even with surface routing and careful relief, there is no way to do this at less than 6" high, unless one takes the mid woofers to the cutoff saw and turns them into modified frame profile drivers- a quarter inch minimum off each flange edge.

Doable, but for the well equipped. (such as my DeWalt DWS780, with a non ferrous reverse bevel cutting blade) An alternative would be a similar blade on a 10" table saw, with the driver literally screwed down to a positioning block so that it could not turn or move except in the feed direction of the block.

[Steve Manning]

Is there any option of raising the TV? If you could post a picture or two of your setup, you might get a couple of other options you can implement.

[Bear]

[..]
I could easily imagine a fairly high performance center that was 6" or so tall, using drivers like the SB15NBAC30 but with a low crossover point to the DA32TX00-08... probably 1400-1500Hz. [..]

That could be done with about a 24* downward angle on the baffle face. But whether that works with the desired seating location is a big question.

But even with surface routing and careful relief, there is no way to do this at less than 6" high, unless one takes the mid woofers to the cutoff saw and turns them into modified frame profile drivers- a quarter inch minimum off each flange edge.

The Wavecor WF152BD0x series includes truncated frames. The Balanced Drive motors do seem to have the ability to cause rear masking issues, though, if I'm reading between the, er,, chart lines over at Voice Coil. In a similar vein, the MW13P woofers from SBA could also work. Both are obviously paper cones, though, and with attendant distortion issues.

[crazyjpeters]

Is there any option of raising the TV? If you could post a picture or two of your setup, you might get a couple of other options you can implement.

As you can see, with my TV taking up the entire opening, there's nowhere to go.

Space above the TV is where I had thought to work in a CC, which is where the 5.5" opening is. Above that is storage cabinetting that isn't shown in the picture, so placing it even higher isn't great. I suppose if push came to shove, I could cut into the bottom drawer section and that would get me significantly more height.

NatPs are either side of the cabinet. What's the X-over change for being away from the wall, but in-wall basically on one side ;-) (ya, I know, not great placement).

[Steve Manning]

As you can see, with my TV taking up the entire opening, there's nowhere to go.

Space above the TV is where I had thought to work in a CC, which is where the 5.5" opening is. Above that is storage cabinetting that isn't shown in the picture, so placing it even higher isn't great. I suppose if push came to shove, I could cut into the bottom drawer section and that would get me significantly more height.

NatPs are either side of the cabinet. What's the X-over change for being away from the wall, but in-wall basically on one side ;-) (ya, I know, not great placement).

I might have a possible option, depending on your answer to this ..... is the TV sitting on a stand? I'm assuming it's a flat screen and not a tube.

[fbov]

First off, the "matching" center is Jon's Modula MTM CC, an excellent design, but with a 9" nominal height, and perhaps 8" as a practical minimum with 7" drivers.

Second, Steve's also noticed the space below the TV. If the display is wall mounted, you can move it a little lower.

Third, you'd have to remove the shelf, but 5.5" + 0.5" shelf thickness gets you a space only 2-3" short of the Modula CC, with more than that available in gaps around the display.

At that point, you might consider CC under display....

HAve fun,
Frank

[Steve Manning]

First off, the "matching" center is Jon's Modula MTM CC, an excellent design, but with a 9" nominal height, and perhaps 8" as a practical minimum with 7" drivers.

Second, Steve's also noticed the space below the TV. If the display is wall mounted, you can move it a little lower.

Third, you'd have to remove the shelf, but 5.5" + 0.5" shelf thickness gets you a space only 2-3" short of the Modula CC, with more than that available in gaps around the display.

At that point, you might consider CC under display....

HAve fun,
Frank

A little different ..... my thought was to remove the upper shelf and if the TV was sitting on a stand, remove it and use a TV mount inside the stand, with the TV up as far as it can go.

Something like this come to mind, though there are a ton of options.





I imagine this would give you the required room you need, especially if you slide the CC back a bit so the top of it is behind the TV you have a ton of space.

[fbov]

We're thinking along the same lines. The question I had when suggesting it, is how much modification of the shelf unit is acceptable. CC under the display hides most of it...
Frank

[zegebe]

I've been wondering about the same thing for a while - except with the intention of squeezing a "thin" CC underneath an LCD tv that's sitting on top of a Lowboard with it's factory legs. I had been hoping to maybe pair some sort of very low profile MMTMM or MMMTMMM array with a pair of NatP's (also sitting on the same wide Lowboard) - but it sounds like this is never going to be ideal?

I could bump up the height of my LCD to fit a larger speaker, but that potentially introduces it's own problems (different viewing height, may also need to raise the NatP's, etc)