Anthology Center options

[J-Rye]

I'm building a new L/C/R setup. Anthologies are primary choice for L/R mains. I've read the Finalists Center ($509) is a great match. However, I'd like to reduce cost and have an open back center similar to the original Statements Center ($358). Would it be possible to have a center using (2) RS180, (1) NE123, and (1) 22TFF with an open back mid?

My primary concern is the extra $150 for the Finalists-C, since I'm already above my planned budget (which happens 100% of the time). Should it be a concern that the Finalists center has a different tweeter and mid than Anthology, and lacks the open mid range? Also, it seems like the RS180 would be more than adequate to handle the frequencies a center channel sees (compared to Finalists with RS225). Thoughts?

I'm new to DIY, but have done more research than I care to admit. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

[Jim Holtz]

I'm building a new L/C/R setup. Anthologies are primary choice for L/R mains. I've read the Finalists Center ($509) is a great match. However, I'd like to reduce cost and have an open back center similar to the original Statements Center ($358). Would it be possible to have a center using (2) RS180, (1) NE123, and (1) 22TFF with an open back mid?

My primary concern is the extra $150 for the Finalists-C, since I'm already above my planned budget (which happens 100% of the time). Should it be a concern that the Finalists center has a different tweeter and mid than Anthology, and lacks the open mid range? Also, it seems like the RS180 would be more than adequate to handle the frequencies a center channel sees (compared to Finalists with RS225). Thoughts?

I'm new to DIY, but have done more research than I care to admit. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!

Welcome to HT Guide and thank you for your interest in the Anthology's/Finalist center. I'll try and answer your questions.

Yes, a center with RS180's, NE123 and 22TFF is possible but would require a completely new crossover which is developed using the cabinet it will be in. Honestly, that won't happen. Sims are where you start and very, very rarely where you end if you want a speaker to sound properly. The original Statements center was open back because it worked for me and I wanted to try it. But it didn't work for many builders because it had the same placement requirements of all of our other open back mids speakers. That means 18" from back of speaker to the wall behind, no TV sitting on top of it or large objects shrouding it so the back sound wave is blocked from reflecting forward. When Curt and I upgraded to the Statements II design the new center became closed back.

A few basics of home theater speakers. The center carries up to 70% of the sound and the sole purpose is to anchor the sound to the screen. The mains become effects channels. Matching voicing across all speakers is very important for seamless pans etc. but IMHO, identical speakers or identical drivers is not important assuming they are all high performing, low distortion drivers. If you're into movies with big dynamic range, a sub should also be on your short list. To sum it up, all of the speakers Curt and I have created have similar voicing which allows excellent integration. The Statements II center is also a great choice and what I use. Cost between the Finalist center and Statements II center is similar since the upgrade to the Morel tweeter when the RS28-F went NLA.

HTH

Jim

[J-Rye]

Welcome to HT Guide and thank you for your interest in the Anthology's/Finalist center. I'll try and answer your questions.

Yes, a center with RS180's, NE123 and 22TFF is possible but would require a completely new crossover which is developed using the cabinet it will be in. Honestly, that won't happen. Sims are where you start and very, very rarely where you end if you want a speaker to sound properly. The original Statements center was open back because it worked for me and I wanted to try it. But it didn't work for many builders because it had the same placement requirements of all of our other open back mids speakers. That means 18" from back of speaker to the wall behind, no TV sitting on top of it or large objects shrouding it so the back sound wave is blocked from reflecting forward. When Curt and I upgraded to the Statements II design the new center became closed back.

A few basics of home theater speakers. The center carries up to 70% of the sound and the sole purpose is to anchor the sound to the screen. The mains become effects channels. Matching voicing across all speakers is very important for seamless pans etc. but IMHO, identical speakers or identical drivers is not important assuming they are all high performing, low distortion drivers. If you're into movies with big dynamic range, a sub should also be on your short list. To sum it up, all of the speakers Curt and I have created have similar voicing which allows excellent integration. The Statements II center is also a great choice and what I use. Cost between the Finalist center and Statements II center is similar since the upgrade to the Morel tweeter when the RS28-F went NLA.

HTH

Jim

Thanks Jim, I really appreciate the input. I have a Paradigm Servo 15 and Klipsch R-112 SW to handle the low end, but I'll probably upgrade with DIY as I get further down the rabbit hole. I'm hoping to use Anthology in 2.0 for music, then use as part of 5.2.2 for home theater

I'm a bit concerned with the quality of my input sources - mostly streaming through an XBOX One X, and powered by a Yamaha RX-A1060. That's another reason why I'm leaning towards the Anthology (with standard capacitors) instead of the Statements II. Would the Anthologies be more forgiving than the Statements II with an average input source? i.e. Is there such a thing as being "too detailed"?

Also, what comes with the Mid-range Enclosures for the Anthology build? Is that just the PVC tube, or are there more pieces to it?

Thanks again

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Jim, I really appreciate the input. I have a Paradigm Servo 15 and Klipsch R-112 SW to handle the low end, but I'll probably upgrade with DIY as I get further down the rabbit hole. I'm hoping to use Anthology in 2.0 for music, then use as part of 5.2.2 for home theater

I'm a bit concerned with the quality of my input sources - mostly streaming through an XBOX One X, and powered by a Yamaha RX-A1060. That's another reason why I'm leaning towards the Anthology (with standard capacitors) instead of the Statements II. Would the Anthologies be more forgiving than the Statements II with an average input source? i.e. Is there such a thing as being "too detailed"?

Also, what comes with the Mid-range Enclosures for the Anthology build? Is that just the PVC tube, or are there more pieces to it?

Thanks again

The Anthology's are the right choice for your system. They're more forgiving on all types of music and really step up when they play better recordings. They also are very dynamic and are great for home theater. Just remember that high volume electronic low bass is not a good choice. That's sub territory.

Do you have the build plans for the Anthology's? The PVC tubes provide the inner enclosure but all the rest is MDF and is up to you to cut and assemble. The plans are available through Meniscus along with the crossover kit they've put together for ease of ordering. Curt has the complete design available on his website; http://speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

HTH

Jim

[oneplustwo]

Another option is the Zaph audio zdt 3.5 center channel. I really like it as a center because the mid range dome does a great job for voices which is super important to me in a center channel. And it’s relatively cheap over all.

[J-Rye]

The Anthology's are the right choice for your system. They're more forgiving on all types of music and really step up when they play better recordings. They also are very dynamic and are great for home theater. Just remember that high volume electronic low bass is not a good choice. That's sub territory.

Do you have the build plans for the Anthology's? The PVC tubes provide the inner enclosure but all the rest is MDF and is up to you to cut and assemble. The plans are available through Meniscus along with the crossover kit they've put together for ease of ordering. Curt has the complete design available on his website; http://speakerdesignworks.com/Anthology_1.html

HTH

Jim

Yes, I've been researching the build plans. Thanks for clearing up what's included.

In what scenario would you recommend the upgraded capacitors? It raises price by about 15%. Worth it?

[Jim Holtz]

Yes, I've been researching the build plans. Thanks for clearing up what's included.

In what scenario would you recommend the upgraded capacitors? It raises price by about 15%. Worth it?

Caps are a personal preference. Curt and I have become "hooked" on Clarity caps. We've done some extremely unscientific blind tests with a group of friends against other popular midrange caps and Clarity has been the one that stands out with better clarity (go figure). However, it is only noticeable on extremely well recorded music with excellent front end electronics and source components with critical listening. If you've not been as OCD as he and I have standard caps will be fine. You can also mix and match by using Clarity in the tweeter circuit with Audyn elsewhere. Mid range would be next.

A final thought. IMHO, caps are a poor investment for the average system and one of the last upgrades for better sound. If HT is the main usage, not worth the money, IMHO. The pursuit of the best music reproduction possible is another conversation. As always, YMMV....

HTH

Jim

[J-Rye]

Caps are a personal preference. Curt and I have become "hooked" on Clarity caps. We've done some extremely unscientific blind tests with a group of friends against other popular midrange caps and Clarity has been the one that stands out with better clarity (go figure). However, it is only noticeable on extremely well recorded music with excellent front end electronics and source components with critical listening. If you've not been as OCD as he and I have standard caps will be fine. You can also mix and match by using Clarity in the tweeter circuit with Audyn elsewhere. Mid range would be next.

A final thought. IMHO, caps are a poor investment for the average system and one of the last upgrades for better sound. If HT is the main usage, not worth the money, IMHO. The pursuit of the best music reproduction possible is another conversation. As always, YMMV....

HTH

Jim

If my initial build is standard caps, are the upgraded caps a simple swap, or are other crossover modifications required to support?

[Jim Holtz]

If my initial build is standard caps, are the upgraded caps a simple swap, or are other crossover modifications required to support?

As long as the replacement caps are the same values, just swap them, let them burn in for a few hours and then listen to your best recordings to see if you can hear the difference. Curt and I particularly like Clarity CSA for the tweeter and PX for the mids.

Jim

[J-Rye]

Jim, I came across this post of yours a couple years back and I can't help but think ... "Am I going to wish I had built the Statement II?" I understand the Anthology is a phenomenal speaker - one you've recommended on here more times than I can count. But the fact that the Statement II is "better" for music leaves me with this gut feeling that I should just peel the extra $300 and build the Statement II LCR instead of Anthology/ Finalist LCR. One day, after I upgrade my source components, I'll always wonder what those beautiful ribbon tweeters would have brought to the table :unsure:. I'm not sure if there's a question in there, but this is my dilemma. I almost named my boat "Never Satisfied," if that tells you anything about my urge to constantly upgrade. It's a major personality flaw - something my wife would be happy to tell you about :B Luckily I've never had the urge to upgrade her, and she supports my bad habits

Yep, Anthology's are a "gateway drug" that'll send you in search of better recordings which pushes you to expand genre that you've not listened to before and they'll also put you on the search for better electronics. Unfortunately, it all costs money so a little at a time.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Jim, I came across this post of yours a couple years back and I can't help but think ... "Am I going to wish I had built the Statement II?" I understand the Anthology is a phenomenal speaker - one you've recommended on here more times than I can count. But the fact that the Statement II is "better" for music leaves me with this gut feeling that I should just peel the extra $300 and build the Statement II LCR instead of Anthology/ Finalist LCR. One day, after I upgrade my source components, I'll always wonder what those beautiful ribbon tweeters would have brought to the table :unsure:. I'm not sure if there's a question in there, but this is my dilemma. I almost named my boat "Never Satisfied," if that tells you anything about my urge to constantly upgrade. It's a major personality flaw - something my wife would be happy to tell you about :B Luckily I've never had the urge to upgrade her, and she supports my bad habits

LOL, my post from back then is still true today. The Statements II are a definite step up but it's also a time when you might want to think about what your end goal is. If you love the older poorly recorded music or music that is part of the loudness wars the industry seems to be a promoter of, the Anthology's are the best choice. They are simply more forgiving. However, if you lean towards well recorded music that offers more detail and depth, the Statements II is a better choice. Of course, The Bordeaux take it to the next level for midrange detail, clarity and depth. But the cost double the Statements II's. All are equal for home theater.

BTW, upgrading is not a personality flaw. All of us DIY'ers have it. Once you figure out you can build speakers, you want to build better. :W

Jim

[J-Rye]

LOL, my post from back then is still true today. The Statements II are a definite step up but it's also a time when you might want to think about what your end goal is. If you love the older poorly recorded music or music that is part of the loudness wars the industry seems to be a promoter of, the Anthology's are the best choice. They are simply more forgiving. However, if you lean towards well recorded music that offers more detail and depth, the Statements II is a better choice. Of course, The Bordeaux take it to the next level for midrange detail, clarity and depth. But the cost double the Statements II's. All are equal for home theater.

BTW, upgrading is not a personality flaw. All of us DIY'ers have it. Once you figure out you can build speakers, you want to build better. :W

Jim

My listening preference is definitely the latter. Everything from Jazz, metal, hip hop, classical, etc. I'm a fan of music - not a specific genre. With home theater, I've been pretty satisfied with my budget Paradigm front stage. I know I missing quite a bit, but it's adequate. Music is just a whole different animal for me. Whether an explosion sounds "real" or "80% real" doesn't make much of a difference to me. But voices, instruments, ambiance, that's where I want the detail. I've heard the ribbons described as "open, airy, extremely detailed", which might be because of the transient response at frequencies well beyond human hearing. I don't need to know how or why, but that description is exactly what I want from a set of speakers. As I'm typing this, I'm pretty much selling myself on the Statement II's. That's the only way I know I won't have any regret. The money is one thing, but the 50+ hours of work required to build is why I don't want to wonder if I made the right decision. Go big or go home, right?

[Jim Holtz]

My listening preference is definitely the latter. Everything from Jazz, metal, hip hop, classical, etc. I'm a fan of music - not a specific genre. With home theater, I've been pretty satisfied with my budget Paradigm front stage. I know I missing quite a bit, but it's adequate. Music is just a whole different animal for me. Whether an explosion sounds "real" or "80% real" doesn't make much of a difference to me. But voices, instruments, ambiance, that's where I want the detail. I've heard the ribbons described as "open, airy, extremely detailed", which might be because of the transient response at frequencies well beyond human hearing. I don't need to know how or why, but that description is exactly what I want from a set of speakers. As I'm typing this, I'm pretty much selling myself on the Statement II's. That's the only way I know I won't have any regret. The money is one thing, but the 50+ hours of work required to build is why I don't want to wonder if I made the right decision. Go big or go home, right?

I predict the Statements II will serve you well and will provide many hours of enjoyment.

Jim

[J-Rye]

I’m 75% through my Statement II LCR build, but I’m not clear on what the overall port length should be. I know flared kits have variation, but what is the design intent overall length of the 3” diameter port? Thanks

[1Michael]

The drawing shows a 4" flared port.

[J-Rye]

The drawing shows a 4" flared port.

Thanks for checking, Michael. That is the length of the center piece, not including the flared ends which add a "variable" amount to the total length depending which kit you have. I believe the port length necessary for the design is somewhere between 7-8 inches. The kit I bought says take your total port length and subtract 5" - that is how long the center cut piece should be.