New build - Revelator + subwoofer

[Solid7]

After all these years, I'm still a relative noob. But I remember back in the day, always wanting to do a Revelator build, but never wanting to spend the dough to do it. OK, I'm finally ready. So my plan is to build a set reminiscent of Magico Minis. (something that I'll never dish the dough for, even if I have it burning a hole in my pocket)

I could probably use some advice on subwoofer selection to pair with these. I'd like to build 2 subs, and put the mains on top of them, if possible. My viewing area is elevated approximately 8" off the of the main floor. (think of a stage)

Currently, I have at my disposal, (3) 15" SoundSplinter woofers. I'm not sure if this is the best pairing, but I don't know that it isn't, either. Don't really need to shake the house, but I just want a nice clean sound. I've got the old Behringer EP2500 and all the goodies from past subwoofer builds. I'll re-use that, unless there's a reason not to.

[5th element]

Any subwoofer driver is absolutely fine for bass duties providing you put it in a suitably designed box and don't over drive it.

As to positioning, under the mains is about as bad as it gets. Ideally you want to place the subs at random locations, away from the mains (especially if the mains are going to cover some bass too), and against walls. A good starting point would be to place one subwoofer against the wall behind the speakers, another one a long the side wall of the room, preferably elevated a foot off the ground if possible (not critical but helpful). And then the final one to be placed behind the listening position if one sits mid-way into the room and if you sit alongside a back wall, place the sub along the back wall with you.

What we're really after with subwoofers is to maximise efficiency (placing them next to walls for boundary reinforcement) and spreading them out, over several locations, around the room to excite room modes in different ways (hence elevating one) and thus create a more even sound field. Rather than just having one, or two, subs, usually placed symmetrically, into the room for limited effect.

With three subs and a pair of mains you have 5 bass sound sources. Even if the mains are high passed at say 80Hz you've still got lots of upper and midbass being covered here.

The revelators are excellent drivers and even all these years after their release they are still some of the best drivers that scanspeak has ever made.

[bvbellomo]

The obvious subwoofer for a Relevator build is the Relevator 32W/4878T, if it is within your budget. I am probably buying myself a pair for a present when my divorce is finalized (or when I have money again depending how much she gets) - unless something better, bigger and louder comes along. Great measurements on voice coil, and I am not familiar with any other subwoofer that measures this clean.

I am not familiar with the SoundSplinter.

[bvbellomo]

Any subwoofer driver is absolutely fine for bass duties providing you put it in a suitably designed box and don't over drive it.

As to positioning, under the mains is about as bad as it gets. Ideally you want to place the subs at random locations, away from the mains (especially if the mains are going to cover some bass too), and against walls. A good starting point would be to place one subwoofer against the wall behind the speakers, another one a long the side wall of the room, preferably elevated a foot off the ground if possible (not critical but helpful). And then the final one to be placed behind the listening position if one sits mid-way into the room and if you sit alongside a back wall, place the sub along the back wall with you.

What we're really after with subwoofers is to maximise efficiency (placing them next to walls for boundary reinforcement) and spreading them out, over several locations, around the room to excite room modes in different ways (hence elevating one) and thus create a more even sound field. Rather than just having one, or two, subs, usually placed symmetrically, into the room for limited effect.

With three subs and a pair of mains you have 5 bass sound sources. Even if the mains are high passed at say 80Hz you've still got lots of upper and midbass being covered here.

The revelators are excellent drivers and even all these years after their release they are still some of the best drivers that scanspeak has ever made.

5th and I gave different views on different products.

I want something that can cleanly cover the bottom few octaves in music, blend with the middle of a 3-way, and possibly provide some home theater effects in a small room without a dedicated sub. A woofer that goes low.

5th is talking about something that provides effects, thump and basically just blasts you with loud noise - more of a bass shaker that can play somewhat muscially.

These are 2 different drivers, and if I had a large room and large budget, I'd want both - but both get marketed as subwoofers.

Somewhere between 80Hz - 120Hz, sound becomes localizable. If you plan to cross above that, you want them close to your mains. If you are crossing below that, you want them spread out in the room.

[Face]

5th is talking about something that provides effects, thump and basically just blasts you with loud noise - more of a bass shaker that can play somewhat muscially.

That's not what he's referring to at all. You need multiple subs placed throughout the room for smooth bass response and fidelity. It's extremely rare those things are achievable with a couple subs used as stands.
As for other recommendations, check out the L26Roy. They model well sealed or with their matching passive radiator.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

[Solid7]

I was really just looking for the sub to be my 'cheater', instead of a 3-way speaker design. I've got the woofers on hand, so I figured that I'd just use them. They'll be sealed - not shooting for extreme SPL.

So under the mains is bad, you say. I don't have a lot of ambition to string soup bowls all over the house. Mind you, I HAVE 3 of these, but there's no way that I will be using more than 2.

[Zvu]

I'd use all 3 of them. You really don't have to turn the volume more than you are comfortable. No need for rattling bowls - although they most probably will rattle no matter what you do.

[5th element]

That's not what he's referring to at all. You need multiple subs placed throughout the room for smooth bass response and fidelity. It's extremely rare those things are achievable with a couple subs used as stands.
As for other recommendations, check out the L26Roy. They model well sealed or with their matching passive radiator.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

Exactly.

And although the Scanspeak 32W is an excellent driver the Soundsplinter drivers should be absolutely fine. What he's got are 15" drivers with what looks like a large amount of linear excursion. Pop them in a suitable box + drive them adequately and they'll be more than enough to get the room shaking with movies and to sound clean and clear with music. The two do not have to be mutually exclusive, although if all you want is loud boom for HT that's certainly easier to achieve than both together.

Depending on the model of the soundsplinter driver in question, you may need to use a sealed box and use a Linkwitz Transform, or just go that route to keep the box size reasonable anyway. 15" drivers tend to require pretty large boxes. One of the soundsplinter drivers appears to have a qts of 0.95.

[Solid7]

Yes, the sheer size of them is why there won't be 3 used. I'm actually considering downsizing them to a better driver for my living space.

[5th element]

If you can use some DSP/active crossover then they don't have to be big. Just use a Linkwitz Transform.

You could use two in a push-pull, force cancelling, design for the main system sub then use other drivers for the fillers that are placed elsewhere in the room.

The main sub is usually placed near to the mains, ie the sub that sits behind them along the back wall.

Main subs vs fillers...

Listening rooms have two regions that subs play within, the sub-modal area and the modal area. All rooms have room modes but below a certain frequency they simply stop existing. In my, somewhat small, listening room the main, strong, room mode occurs at around 40Hz. As the multiple, distributed, subwoofer approach is designed around smoothing out the modal area you do not need multiple subs below the rooms main modal region. This means that you only really need one sub that is capable of extending down to 20Hz cleanly. You could use two of the Soundsplinter drivers for this main sub, as they would appear to have what's required to get there, then use other drivers for the filler subs. Filler subs, as you may expect, do not need to go any lower than the rooms modal region, so something like a sealed sub with an f3 of 40Hz, in my room, would be absolutely fine.

What kind of requirements the filler subs need to full fill depends entirely on your room and requirements. Typically though they do not need to go as low, nor anywhere near as loud. Fillers are usually blended into the mains and are brought up slowly and sit at a lower overall SPL relative to the main sub.

For lots of people a simple 8" based sub would be enough for the fillers, something like the W8-1363SBF from Tangband.

[Solid7]

Unless something has changed drastically over the years since I've been around here, I distinctly remember the F3 extension correlating to an upsize in enclosure.

I have an almost minimalist aesthetic in the room these are going into. To give them any kind of size, they'd be furniture. Truth be told, if I had the room, I'd do an infinite baffle. (which is what the drivers were in, at a previous dwelling) But I cannot, as my home has a very low pitch roof, and in the area of listening, there'd be no room to mount. So, I've got to put boxes down. But these "filler" subs, while I'm sure they are great, simply have no place in my arrangement. It's definitely beyond the scope of my project.

I'm looking at the building the equivalent of a really good tower speaker, but without the complexity of 3+ way speakers. The thought to stack the mains was just a logical extension of thinking about towers.