Leftover drivers speaker project

[harryharry]

I am planning a new project. In my main living room I have some old diy speakers with a subwoofer I want to replace. The speakers sounds good enough but I want to build something nicer and remove the subwoofer.

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I am lucky to have a dedicated sound threated listening room where I can put my massive speaker projects ( like this: https://www.htguide.com/forum/showth...y-Utopia-Build ). For the living room I need a speaker with higher WAF. I have a few leftover drivers not in use. Among these Scan Speak 6600 Air-Circ tweeters, Accuton C173-6-191E 6,5 woofers and Seas Excel W26 10” woofers (I also have some Vifa Pl26 10inch 8 ohms woofers). This time I am planning to try to use an active crossover (Hypex DLCP). My wife will also object if the speakers are put more than about 2 feet from the wall. I have played a bit in cad using these drivers in a narrow enclosure with a side mounted bass (W26). I plan to use a closed box design for the C173 of about 6 liters. With the design the picture I ended up with only about 50 liters for the W26. This is not enough for a vented box with the W26. With a closed box the F3 is about 45Hz. Maybe ok if the speaker is placed near to the wall. I know Jed used the Seas W26 driver in a closed box for the “Tombstones” build many years ago with success (https://www.htguide.com/forum/printthread.php?t=29944 )

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The other option would be to buy something else like two Seas CA18RNX or U18RNX and then use a vented box. Of course 4 Wavecore SW182BD01 6.5” woofers would be nice but I want to keep the costs down.

What do you think?

[Face]

Anarchy woofers work well in sealed enclosures, 15-20 liters per driver will sound really nice.

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[fish fingers]

This is pretty much what I want to do with a pair of accuton C158 or 173 with side firing

Have a look at the NRX range from SB acoustics; 8" (pair both sides) 10" (single, ported)and 12" (single, sealed)

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[harryharry]

Both the Anarchy woofers and the SB acoustics drivers looks interesting.

I think I will make a test box for the Seas Excel W26 with a volume of 50 liters and a 24Hz port. This will give a 35Hz F3. Max cone displacement will be at 90W. This will give a 1 meter SPL of about 109dB. That should do.

If I am not pleased with the result I need to consider other drivers. Another woofer candiate might be the Seas L26ROY. This driver works well in small enclosures and will give a max SPL of about 114dB with 500W input power.

I am also considering using a Waveguide for the Scan Speak 6600. I have a Monacor TW034 waveguide in my parts bin that I have never tested. I do not need the extra sensitivity but I often like the sound from tweeters with waveguide. I will build a test for this. This solution will need som eq to sound good I think. I will design a 3d printed adapter for the waveguide.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ScanSpeak-waveguides.htm

[BobEllis]

You might also consider a pair of Wavecor 223BD02 as used in the Ardent. That will get you similar extension in the same cabinet size.

[JonMarsh]

Two SW223BD02 will work pretty nicely sealed in 50L, but you have more options with that much net volume. Note, NET.

So, two drivers wired in series with a box tune of 27Hz can get you essentially flat to 30Hz ported.

With a pair of SS Discovery PR's, you can get down to about 26Hz essentially flat, and avoid port noise and figuring out where to put the port.

If you're curious about details, PM me and I can email you a Unibox file with details. Output capability is around 110 dB with 100W drive. These drivers have a very stiff but reasonably damped aluminum cone and are easier to work with than the W26, IMO. Then you can use your 191E's basically as midrange drivers, perhaps cut them in around 300-400 Hz. A good crossover approach might be similar to what I did with the Isiris, which used 4 ohm 12" woofers with similar characteristics wired in series. Tweeter crossover would be more like the Wavecor Ardent (which uses 6640; the Isiris uses a Jantzen Diamond tweeter).








This is nominally flat or very near flat, not voiced for psychoacoustics. This version has a slight downward tilt and will be preferred by most listeners with the majority of typical program material in typical rooms:

[5th element]

Both the Anarchy woofers and the SB acoustics drivers looks interesting.

I think I will make a test box for the Seas Excel W26 with a volume of 50 liters and a 24Hz port. This will give a 35Hz F3. Max cone displacement will be at 90W. This will give a 1 meter SPL of about 109dB. That should do.

If I am not pleased with the result I need to consider other drivers. Another woofer candiate might be the Seas L26ROY. This driver works well in small enclosures and will give a max SPL of about 114dB with 500W input power.

I am also considering using a Waveguide for the Scan Speak 6600. I have a Monacor TW034 waveguide in my parts bin that I have never tested. I do not need the extra sensitivity but I often like the sound from tweeters with waveguide. I will build a test for this. This solution will need som eq to sound good I think. I will design a 3d printed adapter for the waveguide.
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/ScanSpeak-waveguides.htm

Buying new drivers, at least for any decent outlay, would appear to defeat the purpose of the project, at least in my opinion!

I whole heartedly recommend using the Aircirc + the waveguides, definitely a step in the right direction. Considering the sub-optimal placement and inability to room treat, the waveguides should definitely help ease with room integration and being seated off axis.

I've never been a fan of the ceramic magnet Accuton drivers, the motor performance is pretty lacklustre compared to the competition and the price is relatively sky high in comparison. Still they aren't bad drivers and they are what you've got. A nice 2-2.5kHz xover will ensure a decent directivity match with the waveguide. Or if you want to maximise the vertical off axis response and use as much of the super high linearity that the Aircirc can provide, then cross as low as it'll go. 1200Hz 4th order acoustic + waveguide wouldn't be too difficult I don't think.

It's always fun to brainstorm with every driver on the planet but the reality is that the W26 is a stonking good bass driver with super low distortion and makes for one of the best woofers for a three way. Certainly you can probably find something that will suit your application just a little bit better, but a pair of these side mounted, close to the floor, will have tons of output. With the C173 being a mid-woofer you can cross it as low as necessary to ensure good integration. A steep 100-200Hz xover would be my pick.

[Face]

Sell your W26s and pick up a pair of L26ROY.

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[harryharry]

I showed the picture of Jon Marsh's Isiris to my wife. She told me right away that having monster speakers in the living room was something she accepted when we were students. Now this is out of the question. (To me the Isiris is about as nice as a speaker can get.) I therefor need to build something slimmer and put my bigger speakers in the basement sound room.

I think waveguides on the SS 6600 then cross them at about 2kHz or maybe even lower is something I will try in a test cabinet. For the bass a steep xover in the 100-200Hz range also sounds lika a good idea. The W26 really shines in the 80-800Hz range. Below 80Hz I think the L26ROY might be a better driver. The L26ROY is also a driver that works better in small boxes.

I could try to sell the W26 driver but it is old (I think maybe 14 years old) so I do not think I will get too much for it. Maybe it is worth a try.

I have started to draw an adaptor for the Monacor TW034. However I might just end up drawing the whole waveguide. This is in fact just as easy when you have access to a 3d printer. (A bit longer print time is the only disadvantage.) For those of you who have not invested in a 3d printer yet this is something I can recommend to do. The most fun toy I have bought in years. I now have owned one for a year and used it much more than anticipated.

[harryharry]

I did in fact find a waveguide that I think fits the SS Air-Circ on thingiverse:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1106075

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1938518

However I think maybe the Monacor deisgn is better:

[harryharry]

Finaly I have had time to finish this project. All the drivers were leftover drivers that has been rejected in older designs. The primary function for this speaker is only to use it as a sound source for one of my TVs.



This is my first fully digital speaker. I use FusionAmp FA503 (2x 350Wrms + 1x 100Wrms) to power the speaker. So the speaker is a bit over-powered.

I cheated a bit when making the digital filters. Instead of using a speaker design software I used Excel to create some LR4 target curves. Then I loaded these into sound measurement software (I used Holm impuls). I made LR4 with crossoverpoints at 140 Hz and 2200 Hz. Then just I just tweaked the crossover in Hypex Filter Designer to get the acoustical slopes to match the target curves.



This measurement is from listening position. I have not fine tuned equalizer yet. The bass section needs some work.

The sound is quite good. I think the Accuton C173-6-191E sounds too analytical for my taste. The SS6600 can be crossed much lower so I might try this.

[Bear]

Nicely done. The W26 would love a LR4 crossover about two octaves higher, but the Accuton is almost assuredly the better part (both are quite good pieces).

[harryharry]

Yes, I agree. I use the W26 as a subwoofer. However it is a bass driver that can be crossed quite high. The reason why I crossed it low was the sidefireing placement. I feel the soundstage hurt when crossed higher.

I am still working on the crossover filters.I have removed some dips and raised the tweeter a bit. That opened up the soundstage.

[harryharry]

The speaker is constructed out of mdf covered with fake leather front and back. Then I used ready made oak plates for the side. I glued the sides with flexible silicone glue (Tec7) since the wood will move a bit. I hope this will work over time.

I am very satisfied how the looks of the speaker. This is a rather quick and simple construction but it looks like an expensive speaker. (Thinking of it it is quite expensive but since these drivers have been in storrage for many years it does not feel like it).

If I would buy new drivers I would have bought cheaper and more suited drivers for the project. All the drivers are very good however there are other (cheaper) drivers out there that I like even more.