Mini statement bass speaker ' popping'

[neilmaui]

Soo...first things first...love my minis, they were too large for my old house so built a new house!! It's all they deserve 😉 I have them hooked up to an Emotiva XPA 2 and run a Dayton 18 sub with a Dayton 1kw plate amp...the other day the wife was out...so I thought time for a little ACDC ...cranked it a little more than I normally do probably about -9.0 showing on the emotiva XDA 2 DAC pre combo...source was off my Mac mini ripped cd...and at the bass drum beat the upper bass driver on my left speaker seemed to ' pop' in time with the bass drum..sounded like it was ' bottoming out' Was I just pushing it too hard? The Xpa 2 seems to have a lot more power, so thought maybe the drivers not up to that amount? ....maybe I need to build the statements 😉 Help as always is greatly appreciated..
Neil

[Jim Holtz]

the bass drum beat the upper bass driver on my left speaker seemed to ' pop' in time with the bass drum..sounded like it was ' bottoming out' Was I just pushing it too hard? The Xpa 2 seems to have a lot more power, so thought maybe the drivers not up to that amount? ....maybe I need to build the statements

Hi Neil,

Sorry to hear you're having a problem with the RS180's. The quick answer is, yes, you over drove them and the voice coil in the driver is probably mushroomed. The new unshielded versions of the RS180's are drop in replacements for the shielded versions.

XPA 2's have huge power and more than the Mini was capable of handling. You must have been rattling the rafters.

Statements (original or II's), Anthology's or bordeaux are all good options that will allow up to approximately 115 db before they run out of xmax and are headed for failure.

HTH

Jim

[neilmaui]

Thanks for the reply Jim, hope you had a good trip! I think I already have the unsheilded versions...my room is 25ft x 50ft so a huge place to fill...will just have to curb my enthusiasm. Think I need to replace the drivers..they sound ok at normal levels or will I have done irreparable damage?

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks for the reply Jim, hope you had a good trip! I think I already have the unsheilded versions...my room is 25ft x 50ft so a huge place to fill...will just have to curb my enthusiasm. Think I need to replace the drivers..they sound ok at normal levels or will I have done irreparable damage?

If they don't sound the same at normal to loud levels then you've probably damaged the driver. It should be pretty obvious if the drivers been damaged. If it sounds good at normal volume, see how it goes before spending money you may not have to.

Jim

[neilmaui]

If they don't sound the same at normal to loud levels then you've probably damaged the driver. It should be pretty obvious if the drivers been damaged. If it sounds good at normal volume, see how it goes before spending money you may not have to.

Jim

Thanks Jim, it doesn't pop at normal levels and I haven't pressed them hard again..so will keep an eye on them. Thanks as always for the help and guidance.

[TEK]

Not directly related, but out of curiosity:
Are there measurements that can be taken in the dedign of a speaker to ensure that the xmax of drivers won’t be exceeded?
Like making some kind of safty circut on the crossover that will be activated if the power exceed some critical point and then divert the power?
I guess that one huge issue would be that the power has no where to go - so the end result would have to be heat, if you dont add some other internal power using «thingy» inside the speaker...
What do you designers think - it is doable?

[Jim Holtz]

Not directly related, but out of curiosity:
Are there measurements that can be taken in the dedign of a speaker to ensure that the xmax of drivers won’t be exceeded?
Like making some kind of safty circut on the crossover that will be activated if the power exceed some critical point and then divert the power?
I guess that one huge issue would be that the power has no where to go - so the end result would have to be heat, if you dont add some other internal power using «thingy» inside the speaker...
What do you designers think - it is doable?

Actually, over excursion is easily modeled in Unibox. The Mini's have a maximum volume of 110 DB above 90 Hz. and decreases from there. 100 db is running out of excursion at 50 Hz. and their F/3 of about 40 Hz. can be played up to 95 db. The XPA-2 simply has the power to drive the Mini's well beyond the SPL they were designed for with bass heavy content.

Solutions; Careful cranking them up too very high SPL's or add a sub and use the low pass active filter in the sub amp (4th order) to roll off the RS180's around 80 Hz.

The bottom line is, if you want to really crank up a speaker, it takes bigger drivers and/or more xmax. The RS180's have as much or more xmax than most other 7" drivers so this is a common issue.

Just as a comparison, The Statements II use RS225's which will start to run out of xmax at 110 db at 70 Hz and can achieve 100 DB at 30 Hz. This is why I recommend crossing to a sub at 50-60 Hz for high volume home theater or extremely high SPL's when playing bass heavy music.

HTH

Jim

[neilmaui]

Actually, over excursion is easily modeled in Unibox. The Mini's have a maximum volume of 110 DB above 90 Hz. and decreases from there. 100 db is running out of excursion at 50 Hz. and their F/3 of about 40 Hz. can be played up to 95 db. The XPA-2 simply has the power to drive the Mini's well beyond the SPL they were designed for with bass heavy content.

Solutions; Careful cranking them up too very high SPL's or add a sub and use the low pass active filter in the sub amp (4th order) to roll off the RS180's around 80 Hz.

The bottom line is, if you want to really crank up a speaker, it takes bigger drivers and/or more xmax. The RS180's have as much or more xmax than most other 7" drivers so this is a common issue.

Just as a comparison, The Statements II use RS225's which will start to run out of xmax at 110 db at 70 Hz and can achieve 100 DB at 30 Hz. This is why I recommend crossing to a sub at 50-60 Hz for high volume home theater or extremely high SPL's when playing bass heavy music.

HTH

Jim

thanks Jim, does that mean the Statement II will play louder? Just think with my Emo XPA2 they may be a better match...may also fill my large room better too!

[Jim Holtz]

thanks Jim, does that mean the Statement II will play louder? Just think with my Emo XPA2 they may be a better match...may also fill my large room better too!

The easy answer is yes the Statements II will get louder and will fill the room better since its so big. The Statements II will hit 115 db max and actually the Mini's will come close to 112 db. But that's with normal music that doesn't have lots of low bass. low bass = sub(s) to handle at high volumes. Super high volume system requirements would be line arrays.

The majority of listening is done under 90 db and usually well under. That's very loud. Few speakers are designed to handle much more than 100 - 105 db with normal music. Based on what you're describing, I'd suggest adding a sub and filtering the low's to the Mini's. Bass is the killer for every speaker.

HTH

Jim

[tktran]

Jim is right.

Your woofers "popping" is when your woofers are about to leave the room, literally.

I'd suggest you run a high pass filter, around 60Hz, if you're really cranking them.
`
Here's what happens once you get to 109dB at 1m (equivalent to ~100dB at 10 feet, for a stereo pair)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gbpysdhe6pmj1e2/Statements%20109dB.jpg?dl=0

[neilmaui]

Thanks tktran , ACDC was the culprit.....I need bigger speakers...