Speakers for my daughter(s)

[TEK]

Hi

Wonder if some of you could point me in the right direction?
I'm looking into building a pair of speakers for my daughter.
Her taste seems to towards pop/rock, for example bands like Imagine Dragons. She is not very mutch into hifi, but finally start to think that she might want something better than her iPad.
She normally used her headphones.

I'm looking for quite small speakers that she can have in her room (12m2), on a shelf or on the desk.
In hink they should give a nice full sound. I do not think that they have to play very loud, but they should play nice.
When it comes to cost, I have really not thought mutch about that jet.
I think I would like to stay (well) under 1k USD in cost for crossover and elements.

So, any design that comes to mind?

[ergo]

On this side of the globe this would be a possibility

https://www.hifitalo.fi/hm-32_rakennussarja

https://www.hifitalo.fi/uploads/files/products/HM-32%20lehtijuttu.pdf

Ergo

[Steve Manning]

Hey TEK, what about a pair of Jon's MT's, not sure where the dollar amount comes in though.

[TEK]

Didn't Jon build a set for his dauther? Natalie P or something?

[TEK]

On this side of the globe this would be a possibility

https://www.hifitalo.fi/hm-32_rakennussarja

https://www.hifitalo.fi/uploads/files/products/HM-32%20lehtijuttu.pdf

Ergo

Does these exist in a english version? My Finnish is not that good ;-)

[5th element]

I'm actually somewhat impressed with that Finnish design and it's nice to see the HDS exclusive range being used from Peerless.

It looks like it uses a nice low xover point, Vs driver size and separation, for good vertical integration. Two bafflestep options and two tweeter level options.

A nice narrow, compact design, seems perfect for what you want.

The dxt tweeter will also give them excellent dispersion off axis. I do like this tweeter myself.

[Jonasz]

Jeff Bagbys Continuum sounds like an option if you still can get hold of a pair of RS28A.

[BobEllis]

Aw, come on TEK. Don't your daughters deserve Ardents of their own?

[TEK]

Holy shit, that would be some build thread - 4 set of Ardents:P, each cramped into a small bedroom:roll:.
Then followed by news articles about a cracey norwegian going personally bancrupt due to expensive DIY speaker builds8O

[roadrune]

Overnight Sensations and a small sub, maybe with a Sb acoustics SB23 witch are on sale on Dynabel now?

[Jim Holtz]

Take a look at Jeff Bagby's designs at Meniscus. https://meniscusaudio.com/?s=Bagby&post_type=product

Jeff does great crossover designs and his speaker designs sound great. If you wanted something larger, I'd not hesitate to recommend the designs Curt Campbell and I have collaborated on.

Jon also has created excellent designs. Lots of choices you really can't go wrong on.

HTH

Jim

[technodanvan]

On this side of the globe this would be a possibility

https://www.hifitalo.fi/hm-32_rakennussarja

https://www.hifitalo.fi/uploads/files/products/HM-32%20lehtijuttu.pdf

Ergo

I was under the impression the 830881 has not been in production for many years. Is it still available in the EU?

[scottvalentin]

Hahaha Bob - almost spit my coffee out!

Good luck TEK, so many options to choose from!

[DML9]

Jim,
Could your MicroStatements be a good fit?
Mike

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Mike,

Wow! I completely forgot them. Yes, they would be a very good fit for a bedroom.

Actually, the Micro Statements were a project between Curt and Meniscus. I was aware but not involved in the design. I've heard them a couple times and they sound great for such a small speaker. Just what you'd expect from something Curt was involved in. :T

Check with Mark at Meniscus for more information.

Jim

[Jonasz]

http://speakerdesignworks.com/MicroStatements_1.html

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Jonasz! I overlooked that on Curt's website.

Jim

[knifeinthesink]

since you mention small you could build Jeff Bagby's Sopranos. They are inexpensive, around $250 Canadian, small, (6.5" x 8" x 10"), and apparently go quite low for such a small speaker. Drivers are SB acoustics which I think are available to you. Jeff states in his build description that he feels these were amongst his more successful designs. I have all the part to build them but haven't been able to get to it yet.

[TEK]

I think that the micro statements looks very interedting. But how is the tweeters off axis response? Would they be wery sensitive regarding listening position?

I’m also looking into these:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Revelator-4R.htm

Any thoughts? A huge advantage for these is that they are available as a complete kit from a single vendor.

The Sopranos is also avsilable as a kit:

https://meniscusaudio.com/product/soprano-pair/

I do however notice that I have a preference for scan-speak, but I’m not sure if that is for any good reasons.
I think it is related to me listening to some system audio two-ways speakers used a scan-speak bass driver like the one in the revelator kit many-many years ago.
So, most likely totally without any good reason - but still..,

Edit: I had to figure out where my preference came from.
And I found it. I auditioned these when I bought a speaker set (ended up with a sorround set with B&W805 as mains): https://system-audio.com/wp-content/...A2K-Master.pdf
The irony is that it is just the bass membran shape I recognice - the bass drivers is not even scan-speak. And still I feel the preference. Oh, the lurks of our minds...

[csmielke]

Tek,
I just finished a set of Finalist Monitors from Curt at Speaker Design Works. The crossover is a lot simpler than with the ribbon tweeter in the Micro Statements. I was going to put up some pictures of the build but not real exciting compared to other stuff. I am super pleased with this set especially with the subwoofer in play. Only problem is the RS28F-4 being discontinued due to Usher going out of business. I am sure there are some around out there and Solen has the NE149W-08HS on sale for around $75USD. That's a great bargain in my mind.
Chris

[dar47]

If your considering a Treols design at 5" I would build the supper mini. I did and the OW1 is a sweat little tweet.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/W15.htm

[TEK]

Thanks for all your input.
I’m ending up building the compact verdion of Truls «SEAS CA18/RLY/22TAF-G».

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/SEAS_CA18RLY-COMPACT.htm#The%20cabinet

The main reason is that I found the kit at a Norwegian markedplace at a very resonable price - and it seems to fit my needs quite well. So, I will try to build a set.

[TEK]

I have cut the parts for the outer box from 12mm MDF.

Now I’m reinforcing the sides with 8mm BB, gluing them on the inside so that I geta rabbit joint before I will start gluing up the box.
I figured that by using small nails I could keep the plates in position while adding pressure to the glue - without the plates gliding off my target position. That worked rather well.




Now I’m wondering a bit about how to proceed:
- should I add a layer of BB to the top, bottom and back as well?
- what and how much bracing should I add to the box?

The front baffel will get either a layer og BB or another 12mm og MDF, and be a «bolt on» solution so that I can open up the speaker later on if I want to.

[cochinada]

- what and how much bracing should I add to the box?

Well, according to Troels you should need only a brace between the tweeter and the middle as in the TJL:

[TEK]

Thanks Joaquim!

I’m having some slow progress.
I have lined the inside of the cabinets with 9mm BB, so now the cabinets are 12+9mm =21mm thick.
The driver holes has been cut and the baffel is also lined with 9mm BB.
Have to cut holes for the drivers in the BB when the glue dries.
Also need to add the internal brace.

Just to be sure, when the plan say «Port = 50 (ID) x 80 mm. Port tuning = 40 Hz.»
That means that the inner diameter (ID?) of the port should be 50mm.

I’m playing around with the idea of making the front baffel screw monted, so that it is deatachable.
Any thougts about cons and pro with that?

Current state:

[cochinada]

Hi Tek!
But are you going to build the 16l or the 24l vented box after all?
I would also agree that ID means inner or internal diameter for sure.
About the pros and cons of a detachable baffle here is my opinion:
- makes it easier to access the crossover in case you need to or changing the amount of stuffing for instance.
- you should use a gasket and some fancy screws that look good and are more or less flat I would say (not easy to find).

As a matter of fact my center speaker (Zaph ZD3C vented) has a detachable baffle but I never removed it until now.

[TEK]

Shit, thanks a lot!
I now see that the correct text is: «Port = 50 (ID) x 140 mm for port tuning ~40 Hz»

[TEK]

Do the port have to be fleared in both ends?
The plan is to use a regular pvc tube and make the fleare by routing it in the mdf and paint over it. But I do not have a fleare on the inside of the box. Will that work?

[cochinada]

Well, I've always heard the experts say that it has to be flared on both ends and it actually makes sense as it minimizes the air turbulence. So you are not going to hear the air blowing will you?

[roadrune]

If you use a PP pipe instead it can be easily flared using a heat gun and a bowl or whatever with the right shape. Biltema have pipes.

[TEK]

Having some slow progress...

Got some pipes, but not flared. Decided to mount the pipe on the inside and use my router to round off the opening.

[cochinada]

That's a very strange port or pipe, not being flared that is. I've used this famous one where you can easily make one flared on both sides without any fuss. Anyway it's good that you're a handy man.

[TEK]

OK, some progress have been made.
The boxes has been glued up.
They are now 12mm MDF lined with 9mm BB plywood on the inside.
I habe also added a brace between the tweeter and bass driver. I’m quite confidemce that should give a quite stiff and dead cabinet.

After some thinking I concluded that I wanted a glued on baffle.
It’s all glued up now.
Before I could start sanding the cabinet down I feelt the need for a downdraft table.
After building that I have now sanded the boxes down.

These will be painted.
I have concluded that I will have the whole box in the same color. This is a change as my initial thought was to have the baffel matt black and the box itself in a different color.

Now I just need to decide on how to round over the corners (straight 90degree corners is hard for the paint to get hold on - and very easy to damage)

[TEK]

Slow progress...
I have covered these with west system
Epoxy and are in the process of sanding down and cleaning up the shop to prepare the paint booth.

I’m not sure I’m going to go the epoxy route again later on. It gives a hard shell but are very little sanding friendly.
bit hard and glogs up the sandpaper even when hardened for a long periode of time. It also takes quite some time to dry.

[BobEllis]

The amine blush is causing your sandpaper to clog. Easily removed with soap and water using a Scotchbrite pad (3M product for Hank). Once washed off, you'll find the surface sands well. You need to really dig into the literature to find out about the blush. If you were re-coating with epoxy and didn't remove the blush the top layer wouldn't stick.

[TEK]

Ahh, finally...
During easter I got time to finish these.

Primer, base coat with water based glasurit metallic paint (leftover from my livingroom speaker) and finished with a layer of glasurit clear coat. Got some orange peel so I have wet-sanded with 1000 and then 3000 grid pads before polishing them.

All assembled now and placed in my daughters room. The sound quality is suprisingly good - especially as they are powered by a no-named 100w class d-amp bought on ebay for almost nothing...

[Garyf52]

Those look great Tek. I hope your daughter enjoys them as much is I enjoy my floor standers. They are fine speakers. Your paint job looks excellent.