Stage Two – What next to power the dirty audio addiction?

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  • meb46
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 398

    Stage Two – What next to power the dirty audio addiction?

    Having spent many hundreds of hours over the past 10 years (and a fair chunk of Jon’s time - huge shout outs) in developing some ambitious three and four way Avalon Acoustics inspired floor-standers, it is now time to divert my attention to a much needed Power Amplifier upgrade. If you’re not familiar with the aforementioned ‘mistresses’ here they are:

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    From the early days with my fridge sized, non-audiophile JBL CF-150’s, I have always relied on, and taken for granted, my trusty Rotel RB-1092 Power Amplifier. Having over 600W/Channel and powered by the early Bang & Olufsen ICE modules, I became accepting of their clinical sound given their sheer brute force in the power department. But as my speakers have evolved over the years, the Power Amplifier has been neglected and I am now at a point where a change is mandatory. Of course nothing is simple when it comes to Amplifier choice given some great products like the NAD M22, Theta Digital Prometheus, Acoustic Imagery Atsah, the Bel Canto REF600M as well as Auralic, Benchmark and even the Merrill Veritas NC1200 powered Amplifier. However, my ultimate goal is to find an amplifier with (1) the best quality sound (2) the necessary power, and (3) the right affordability (not spending upward of $6000+/pair). Whilst the option of two NAD M22 running in bridge mode offers a sound option, excuse the pun, I’ve always thought there must be a better option. And so without this perfect combination readily available I’ve decided to create one.

    As an avid follower of the evolution of D-Class amplifiers, and having used a Rotel RB-1092 since its release, I have always looked for the next leap forward in which audiophiles could have a D-Class option as a legitimate alternative to some Class A and Class AB amplifiers, and the option to have RB-1092 power, without the clinical sound. Over the past year, I have followed the evolution of the Hypex Ncore Technology, and noted some serious Audiophile companies get more involved in this breakthrough… thanks to Bruno Putzey. What the Hypex team are providing is some great, affordable technology with both power and quality to satisfy the majority of us fanatics. The use of the Hypex DS8.0 Plate Amps in my current Four Way project further cements my high opinion of the Technology, and these are based on the older UcD modules.

    After connecting with the Hypex team, and talking through the options, I am now in the process of developing MY perfect solution. Ncore powered, 1000W+ mono-block, packaged in an uncompromising , awesome looking but beautifully simple enclosure. With the release of the latest NCXXXMP range, the option to get a small form factor, power brick whilst getting the benefits of the now third generation+ of the Ncore revolution. Who knows, this may one day lead somewhere “commercial”, but at the moment this is being developed to satisfy MY needs and then to see if other audiophile fanatics share my wish list in Power Amplifier characteristics.

    General specifications are as follows:

    1. Powered by Ncore, using a single NCXXXMP Module – Delivering up to 500W/Channel into 4 ohms and 350W/Channel into 8 ohms in stereo mode, then up to 1000W into 4 ohms and 1200W into 8 ohms in Bridge Tied Load Mono-block.
    2. THD + N at 1W = 0.0024%
    3. Inputs = One pair of balanced Furutech XLR Connectors
    4. Outputs = Two pair of WDT-0703 Nextgen Speaker Terminals
    5. Furutech IEC Connector with EMI Filter, 115/230V, 27A Current Limit/Channel
    6. Enclosure = Solid Billet Aluminum CNC Machined, featuring machined channel shielding and an abundance of thermal relief

    Concept design is nearly complete, and the first prototype enclosure has been machined and pending bead blasting, anodizing and silk-screening. Shown below is the current status, including the test fit of all connectors and the amplifier and power supply module.

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    As things progress, I will keep you all posted. As always, recommendations and suggestions to better fulfill the goals are welcome!
  • tommarra
    Member
    • Feb 2013
    • 36

    #2
    If you have a chassis to support big heat sinks then you can try out AMB's B24 power amplifier - they are some of the cleanest power amps I have heard and you get to make your own - how cool is that!




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Comment

    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15284

      #3
      Looks like great fun and I'm jealous of your access to machining resources!

      Only suggestion I'd toss into the mix at this time is to used a braided shielded speaker cable run (to minimize inductance as well as squelch any RF radiation to the input cabling, since they look like they'll run through the same path), and use the highest grade balanced input cable with low microphonics and good shielding- Hypex actually sells some pretty nice balanced signal cables in that regard, (I've bought a few sets to use when folks say they want to evaluate with midrange (to me) components). I'm taking some to Renron's today for our testing his Ardent with scanspeak midrange and messing around with some AURALiC components (DAC and Preamp) and powering it with a NAD M22, which is HYPEX NCORE 400 OEM powered (early version of NC500 actually).

      In case you're thinking "braided shielded speaker cable?" I'll point out that that is how Cardas Golden Reference is constructed. Owned and recommended. (I've been too busy spending money on drivers to pop for a set of Cardas Clear cables, but some day...)
      the AudioWorx
      Natalie P
      M8ta
      Modula Neo DCC
      Modula MT XE
      Modula Xtreme
      Isiris
      Wavecor Ardent

      SMJ
      Minerva Monitor
      Calliope
      Ardent D

      In Development...
      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
      Obi-Wan
      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
      Modula PWB
      Calliope CC Supreme
      Natalie P Ultra
      Natalie P Supreme
      Janus BP1 Sub


      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

      Comment

      • BobEllis
        Super Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 1609

        #4
        Sorry for OT, but Jon if you could demo the Cambridge DAC at Ron's, I'd be interested in his thoughts on that. Thanks.

        Cool project, MEB.

        Comment

        • Steve Manning
          Moderator
          • Dec 2006
          • 1891

          #5
          Very nice looking room setup for the new speakers Mike. I'm with Jon as well, I'm way jealous of the access you have for machining. Certainly makes bringing an idea to fruition a bit easier.
          Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



          WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

          Comment

          • dar47
            Senior Member
            • Nov 2008
            • 876

            #6
            Very nice Mike!

            Seems to be some parallel work being along the Ncore line a pm to TEK my bring some fruit!

            Comment

            • meb46
              Senior Member
              • Jul 2010
              • 398

              #7
              Jon - you read my mind "Braided Shielded Speaker Cable"... Google will be working hard today to start and scope some potential candidates. AT the moment I had planned the usual twisted speaker cable for the output, coupled with some serious shielded input cable from Via-blue... only to find its impractically heavy gauge and are now scoping for an alternative... and suggestions for brand on either input or output cables?

              Sounds like a fun session in planning over the weekend with yourself and Renron... I'm harboring a little bit of jealousy there on the equipment line-up!

              More progress photos coming soon!

              Comment

              • ergo
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2005
                • 676

                #8
                meb46, did you find a place selling these new NCXXXMP modules for DIY? Hypex-s own shop only has the 'old' NC400 available it seems.

                Comment

                • meb46
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 398

                  #9
                  Ergo - Tricky question... short answer is no. I am going to do something commercial with this, and hence my access to Hypex modules is a little different.

                  Comment

                  • ergo
                    Senior Member
                    • Mar 2005
                    • 676

                    #10
                    There appears to be a new seller in UK who offer the NC500 based product too. Ready made - not DIY, but prices are quite ok.
                    They do seem to offer 'opamp exchange options', so I guess it sort of makes it something a bit more DIY than just a shelf product.

                    Comment

                    • TEK
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Oct 2002
                      • 1670

                      #11
                      Originally posted by meb46
                      Having spent many hundreds of hours over the past 10 years (and a fair chunk of Jon’s time - huge shout outs) in developing some ambitious three and four way Avalon Acoustics inspired floor-standers, it is now time to divert my attention to a much needed Power Amplifier upgrade. If you’re not familiar with the aforementioned ‘mistresses’ here they are:

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]26683[/ATTACH]

                      From the early days with my fridge sized, non-audiophile JBL CF-150’s, I have always relied on, and taken for granted, my trusty Rotel RB-1092 Power Amplifier. Having over 600W/Channel and powered by the early Bang & Olufsen ICE modules, I became accepting of their clinical sound given their sheer brute force in the power department. But as my speakers have evolved over the years, the Power Amplifier has been neglected and I am now at a point where a change is mandatory. Of course nothing is simple when it comes to Amplifier choice given some great products like the NAD M22, Theta Digital Prometheus, Acoustic Imagery Atsah, the Bel Canto REF600M as well as Auralic, Benchmark and even the Merrill Veritas NC1200 powered Amplifier. However, my ultimate goal is to find an amplifier with (1) the best quality sound (2) the necessary power, and (3) the right affordability (not spending upward of $6000+/pair). Whilst the option of two NAD M22 running in bridge mode offers a sound option, excuse the pun, I’ve always thought there must be a better option. And so without this perfect combination readily available I’ve decided to create one.

                      As an avid follower of the evolution of D-Class amplifiers, and having used a Rotel RB-1092 since its release, I have always looked for the next leap forward in which audiophiles could have a D-Class option as a legitimate alternative to some Class A and Class AB amplifiers, and the option to have RB-1092 power, without the clinical sound. Over the past year, I have followed the evolution of the Hypex Ncore Technology, and noted some serious Audiophile companies get more involved in this breakthrough… thanks to Bruno Putzey. What the Hypex team are providing is some great, affordable technology with both power and quality to satisfy the majority of us fanatics. The use of the Hypex DS8.0 Plate Amps in my current Four Way project further cements my high opinion of the Technology, and these are based on the older UcD modules.

                      After connecting with the Hypex team, and talking through the options, I am now in the process of developing MY perfect solution. Ncore powered, 1000W+ mono-block, packaged in an uncompromising , awesome looking but beautifully simple enclosure. With the release of the latest NCXXXMP range, the option to get a small form factor, power brick whilst getting the benefits of the now third generation+ of the Ncore revolution. Who knows, this may one day lead somewhere “commercial”, but at the moment this is being developed to satisfy MY needs and then to see if other audiophile fanatics share my wish list in Power Amplifier characteristics.

                      General specifications are as follows:

                      1. Powered by Ncore, using a single NCXXXMP Module – Delivering up to 500W/Channel into 4 ohms and 350W/Channel into 8 ohms in stereo mode, then up to 1000W into 4 ohms and 1200W into 8 ohms in Bridge Tied Load Mono-block.
                      2. THD + N at 1W = 0.0024%
                      3. Inputs = One pair of balanced Furutech XLR Connectors
                      4. Outputs = Two pair of WDT-0703 Nextgen Speaker Terminals
                      5. Furutech IEC Connector with EMI Filter, 115/230V, 27A Current Limit/Channel
                      6. Enclosure = Solid Billet Aluminum CNC Machined, featuring machined channel shielding and an abundance of thermal relief

                      Concept design is nearly complete, and the first prototype enclosure has been machined and pending bead blasting, anodizing and silk-screening. Shown below is the current status, including the test fit of all connectors and the amplifier and power supply module.

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]26684[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]26685[/ATTACH]

                      [ATTACH=CONFIG]26686[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]26687[/ATTACH]

                      As things progress, I will keep you all posted. As always, recommendations and suggestions to better fulfill the goals are welcome!
                      There are a couple of things here I dont understand. Maybe you could elaborate a bit?
                      You write that you ate planning on bridging two nc500mp's. But from your design it seems to only be room for one in each monoblock.
                      Also, if you plan to bridge them - why is there two set of speaker terminals?

                      I assume that you will need some type of input board for the nc500mp as for the nc500 modules, but it does not seem to be any room for that in the casing. Does the nc500mp has a buildt in input board as the nc400? Or will there be input board of some kind?
                      -TEK


                      Many of the great achievements of the world were accomplished by tired and discouraged men who kept on working...

                      Comment

                      • meb46
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 398

                        #12
                        Hello TEK - Apologies for the delayed response... Christmas/New Year Holiday Travel schedule has taken a serious bite out of my time in front of a computer, which has been welcomed. Some great Dad - Daughter time, and plenty of sight-seeing across Ireland! Great fun!

                        To answer your questions...

                        The Amplifier design doesn't use two bridged NC500 modules... this uses a new generation Hypex module which is a two channel module inclusive of power supply, and then can be run in a stereo mode or bridged mode... hence two sets of speaker terminals and one internal module. The module is the NC502MP and will have direct inputs to the module without an input board. Testing thus far has not convinced me any buffer or input board is required... but this may change in time.

                        Hope that answers your questions.

                        Comment

                        • Leeuwarden
                          Junior Member
                          • Mar 2012
                          • 24

                          #13
                          Originally posted by meb46
                          The module is the NC502MP and will have direct inputs to the module without an input board. Testing thus far has not convinced me any buffer or input board is required... but this may change in time.

                          Hope that answers your questions.
                          Just curious: did you change your mind on the buffer, input board?

                          Comment

                          • JonMarsh
                            Mad Max Moderator
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 15284

                            #14
                            The NC502MP is an integrated solution, with a balanced receiver/driver/loop gain preamp built in- it's not like the modules like the NC500 or NC1200 which are basically just NCORE modulator stages with inputs via a low impedance feedback loop which require either using the OEM evaluation module for the front end or your own design front end. It's more like the DIY NCORE 400, but with the power supply integrated.

                            About the only thing you can do with these if you want a greater CMRR range would be to add balanced input transformers, such as Jensens, to give higher CMRR rejection and wider common mode input range (something that shouldn't be happening, but stuff sometimes does happen). In most cases, there may not be anything to be gained by going that route, and the transformer will introduce a bit more LF distortion, though still very low compared with very high quality loudspeakers.

                            Mike is on a very demanding schedule, per the email I got from him relatively recently, so he may not see this post for a while, but of course he will get back with his own comments.

                            I'm looking at these or one of the other recent new products in order to make the low end of the Isiris active and with EQ. But with all that's going on with work and GF right now, that is on the shelf for the indefinite future- spare time is very hard to find lately.
                            the AudioWorx
                            Natalie P
                            M8ta
                            Modula Neo DCC
                            Modula MT XE
                            Modula Xtreme
                            Isiris
                            Wavecor Ardent

                            SMJ
                            Minerva Monitor
                            Calliope
                            Ardent D

                            In Development...
                            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                            Obi-Wan
                            Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                            Modula PWB
                            Calliope CC Supreme
                            Natalie P Ultra
                            Natalie P Supreme
                            Janus BP1 Sub


                            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                            Comment

                            • Leeuwarden
                              Junior Member
                              • Mar 2012
                              • 24

                              #15
                              Thanks Jon. You are right of course!

                              Comment

                              • meb46
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2010
                                • 398

                                #16
                                Finally... a) A few spare hours, b) All required parts are in my possession and c) Some excitment to get the first of these Gorilla's up and running. More details coming later today...!

                                Comment

                                • meb46
                                  Senior Member
                                  • Jul 2010
                                  • 398

                                  #17
                                  So, finally some progress has been made. I have been balancing a manic travel schedule, but finally I had a couple of days clear run at these things...

                                  Both Amplifier modules (Hypex NC502MP) mounted in cases, with an added Shurter Power Filter. This was added more out of a "just in case"... These are to initially be wired in a stereo configuration, not a mono-block - yet. The Output Cables are Shielded Twisted Nerve Audio Axion Cable.

                                  Click image for larger version

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                                  Next was the completed Input Lines which are Shielded Twisted Canare Cable.

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                                  Quick spot of testing before firing it up... all positive on fire up, and now on constant use to burn it in.

                                  Click image for larger version

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                                  Initial thoughts... Well, the clinical sound of my old Rotel RB-1092 (B&O ICE Modules) has gone... but I am going to have to hold final judgement until I have completed all the crossover networks for the big lads. Everything thus far is positive, but i'm running a little handicapped based on my smaller speaker version crossovers and not the correct ones yet. At this point, I am just using one module in Stereo configuration, but will switch to the mono-block wiring once i'm comfortable with things.

                                  More comments and thoughts in the coming days once I have had some real time to run them up.

                                  In the mean time... whats everyones favourite tracks to challenge the Amps? Open to suggestions...

                                  Comment

                                  • Leeuwarden
                                    Junior Member
                                    • Mar 2012
                                    • 24

                                    #18
                                    You are using 2 filters? Are you using stand-by power to switch the amp on/off?

                                    Comment

                                    • Steve Manning
                                      Moderator
                                      • Dec 2006
                                      • 1891

                                      #19
                                      Nice and clean Mike, very cool.
                                      Hold on to your butts - It's about to get Musical!



                                      WEBSITE: http://www.smjaudio.com/

                                      Comment

                                      • Alaric
                                        Ultra Senior Member
                                        • Jan 2006
                                        • 4143

                                        #20
                                        That work is so far outside my realm I can't even envy, only admire. Besides the concept, design and execution, the craftsmanship appears beyond reproach. Well done, sir.
                                        Lee

                                        Marantz PM7200-RIP
                                        Marantz PM-KI Pearl
                                        Schiit Modi 3
                                        Marantz CD5005
                                        Paradigm Studio 60 v.3

                                        Comment

                                        • meb46
                                          Senior Member
                                          • Jul 2010
                                          • 398

                                          #21
                                          Leeuwarden - Yes, there are two filters, one as part of the Mains Socket, and the second the Shurter Module. I might try without the Shurter Module in the coming months to see if there is any degradation, but seems to be pretty effective as is.

                                          Comment

                                          • Leeuwarden
                                            Junior Member
                                            • Mar 2012
                                            • 24

                                            #22
                                            As long as they don't interfere with each other I guess there is no problem :-) Are you using stand-by power to switch the amp on and off?

                                            Comment

                                            • meb46
                                              Senior Member
                                              • Jul 2010
                                              • 398

                                              #23
                                              True...

                                              Not using a stand-by switch, just a Mains power switch on the back of the amp, and a power LED. Pretty easy to add in the switch on the Power Enable, but wanted the front of the amp plain and clean. The power switch on the back is easy to get to, so will make do for the time being...

                                              Comment

                                              • meb46
                                                Senior Member
                                                • Jul 2010
                                                • 398

                                                #24
                                                Picture of the rear of the Amp, but upside down...

                                                Click image for larger version

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                                                Comment

                                                • meb46
                                                  Senior Member
                                                  • Jul 2010
                                                  • 398

                                                  #25
                                                  Doesnt seem to be any interference with the Input and Output Lines, but all of these are twisted pair with a braided shield.

                                                  Comment

                                                  • fish fingers
                                                    Senior Member
                                                    • Apr 2015
                                                    • 189

                                                    #26
                                                    Stunning. I wish I had this kind of ability.

                                                    Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

                                                    Comment

                                                    • JonMarsh
                                                      Mad Max Moderator
                                                      • Aug 2000
                                                      • 15284

                                                      #27
                                                      Looking very good Mike.

                                                      It's still going to be a few months before I can really devote any time to audio stuff, but I'm looking forward to it...
                                                      the AudioWorx
                                                      Natalie P
                                                      M8ta
                                                      Modula Neo DCC
                                                      Modula MT XE
                                                      Modula Xtreme
                                                      Isiris
                                                      Wavecor Ardent

                                                      SMJ
                                                      Minerva Monitor
                                                      Calliope
                                                      Ardent D

                                                      In Development...
                                                      Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
                                                      Obi-Wan
                                                      Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
                                                      Modula PWB
                                                      Calliope CC Supreme
                                                      Natalie P Ultra
                                                      Natalie P Supreme
                                                      Janus BP1 Sub


                                                      Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
                                                      Just ask Mr. Ohm....

                                                      Comment

                                                      • meb46
                                                        Senior Member
                                                        • Jul 2010
                                                        • 398

                                                        #28
                                                        Hello Jon - Absolutely no hurry at all... As discussed on email, you have had quite the roller coaster ride over the past few months, and our condolences from Singapore. I hope the troubles haze is starting to clear, and you are finding a path forward... along with the furry husky friend! Keep your spirits up, and we can discuss further when things are in a better place.

                                                        Comment

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