Table saw

[ergo]

These DeWalt saws look very nice indeed. Just a tiny issue - shop price in Estonia for a DWE7491 is 1,368.00 EUR (1,543.60 USD). Sometimes the prices in EU make me sad indeed and one can feel envious about the deals on US side.

[JonMarsh]

These DeWalt saws look very nice indeed. Just a tiny issue - shop price in Estonia for a DWE7491 is 1,368.00 EUR (1,543.60 USD). Sometimes the prices in EU make me sad indeed and one can feel envious about the deals on US side.

Wow, I DO feel your pain! I paid less than 1/3 of that price. Of course, European stuff is sometimes a bit pricey over here, but nothing like that. Is it import duties? You wouldn't believe what new iPhone costs in Argentina (found out last year when I was traveling through there to Antarctica...)

There are a lot of detail things that have been improved with the newer version of this contractor saw- yes, I would like a real cabinet saw, preferably a good 12" model, but I have to make do with my modest skills and my portable tools... I figure if I hang around the real woodworkers on this forum long enough, some day some of it will rub off on me! :W

[ergo]

I'm getting by with this Wolfcraft table (MASTER cut 2000 ) for now. Uses a regular hand saw used a saw.



Helps out, but still much more inconvenient to set the guide / saw height / angle etc.

[ergo]

Is it import duties?

There is some 3..5% import tax on hw, then the regular VAT of 20%... but all that still does not quite explain it. So must be the extra resellers in between as Estonia is so small the amounts sold probably equal a small town shop sales in Germany for example. So the retailers can never get the stuff at good prices to begin with. And then there is shipping inside EU etc etc. Somehow this piles up like that.

[TEK]

Ergo, Estonia is in the EU. That nrans that there should be no toll barriers between Estonia and other EU countries.
I will suggrst that you search for a dealer in the larger marketplaced, for example toolstop or axminster in the UK and check the orices there.
We have a norwegian supplier that sell axminster goods - but the cost of buing it locally is horrible.
Axminister also supply prices inc all cost delivered to your dorstep.
Check out axminster.co.uk
(I have no connection to the store but they seems professional)

[ergo]

Thanks for the link TEK. Seems a very nice selection and a place to keep an eye on for sure.

For pro audio stuff for example ordering from Thomann.de in Germany usually does end up cheaper than any shop around here even with the 25EUR flat shipping rate they have. It'll probably be this with tools too, just shipping is case by case I'm sure.

[---k---]

Interesting stuff... The hassles and extra price sucks. I'm feeling lucky to live in the states right now.

[TEK]

You win some, you loose some...

[TEK]

Hmm, found this in my garage when I came home today 8O


(And no, it was not hanging on the wall...
Somegow HT-guide insist on rotate my iphone pictures...)

[BobEllis]

Somebody's going to have some fun soon!

It's not just iPhone pictures - pictures I upload all seem to get reoriented to long dimension across the bottom.

[olu78]

I truly miss the good old days, having had access to a shop full of table saws, router tables, planers, and more....

[JonMarsh]

Hmm, found this in my garage when I came home today 8O
[ATTACH=CONFIG]26012[/ATTACH]

(And no, it was not hanging on the wall...
Somegow HT-guide insist on rotate my iphone pictures...)

Gravity really does work differently in Norway, doesn't it? But that's an impressive looking collection of boxes... :T

[JonMarsh]

If this had been shipped to my garage, it would have looked like this...



And the four wheels in the background would be my Prodrive GC07's in British Black (more like gunmetal gray)- I swear someday I'm going to get the body work done on my old Acura garage queen and put it all back together... I just have to quite building speakers so I can find some time for other things in my life!

[---k---]

Are we going to get an unboxing video?

[TEK]

Jon: thanks for turning the picture.
I mostly use the laptop at work, and then it's stuff happening all the time so no fixing then. For surfing I'm mostly using my phone or tablet - and I have not figured out any simple method of fixing the pictures from there...
--- k ---: sorry, to late ;-)

I have most of it unboxed now.
I have also put the saw onto the mobile base and fixed myself an industrial plug to tegular plug power cord as the saw has an industrial connector (but 220v/50hz/1 phase so I only needed the right plug).

However, it is still in my garage - and my shop is in the basement, down a stair. And this thing is HEAVY!
Have borrowed a trolly from work, but I'm quite nervous for the upcoming move...

[TEK]

Yes!!!:dancenana:

arty:

I have been worring about how I should get the saw down to the basement from loong time before I even decided what saw I wanted.
But it went well and it's down there now.

As you can see I got some help from the wife unit ;x(
And we took it down the grass instead of the stairs...

[JonMarsh]

Sounds like that was both the right plan and the right helper! :T

But where's the unboxing video?

[TEK]

Sounds like that was both the right plan and the right helper! :T

But where's the unboxing video?

Sorry - to late

[TEK]

Ahh, here we have it.



Setup is finished and it's ready for use.
I'm not going to try giving a review of this - fir thay I feel that I have to little experience with table saw.
What I can say is that my personal impression is very good. All parts seems to be very solid and of high quality. The fence system seems to be dead on precise and with easy possibility to adjust in any directions. It slides on some plastic offsets on both sides of the table and moves effortly. When correctly adjusted it does not move a bit when locked down.

Comparing this to the site saws (like the Makita and Bosh) I'm very, very happy that I did invest the extra and went for this.
This just is "something else"!

Now, where is that wood ;-)

[BobEllis]

Looking good, TEK. Eagerly awaiting your bench build progress reports.

[TEK]

It's coming - but it will likely still be some time.
Drawers for that drill press stand, a french cleat system (and out with a large wall mounted table), reisolating some ventilation channels and divide off a part of my work area into a tool shed, as well as get my dust collection planned, bought and installed have to come before the actual workbench build - so that I have room for the workbench ;-)

[JonMarsh]

Looking very good TEK, especially the carriage base.

I'm going to FINALLY put together the base carriage for my new DeWalt job site saw this morning, before it gets too hot- as long as I can get another couple of chores out of the way quickly.

I've got a 35 year old nephew visiting next weekend from East Texas, and hope to put him to productive work! (And show him some sights...)

[TEK]

This is going to be fun stuff...
Just done adding edges to my drill press stand.
Started out here:


And in no-time I ended up here.



This was just so easy compared to how I have done this kind of work before...

At the same time I have a question.
Ripping the beech was absolutly no problem. However, I suspect that ripping 2 meter length timber that is 6cm (2 1/2") probably is quite hard on the blade, and when I start on the bench I will most likely be ripping quite mutch.
Should I get a separate blade for ripping? If so, what properties should I look for?

Picture test. First taken with phone vertical, next with phone horizontal.

[dar47]

Very nice, did you check miter slot to blade for true parallel this most of the time needs a little tweaking from factory then the fence and any miter jig will work it's best? Ya wish I had a nice carriage base like that too. :T

[TEK]

It's one my plan of things to do, but I have not done it yet.
Have adjusted the fence dough ;-)

[sdl2112]

Very nice TEK...looks like you made a wise choice. A saw like that will last a lifetime.

[BobEllis]

A good rip blade makes ripping nicer. I have a Freud "Glue Line" rip blade - forget the model, but it's a thin kerf blade that makes a very smooth cut. It handled trimming my Ardent baffles to width with ease on a low power saw.

[TEK]

Very nice TEK...looks like you made a wise choice. A saw like that will last a lifetime.

Jup, I'm actually counting on that.

It cost a bit more than the alternatives (but quite less than other simular saws) - but that is alteady forgotten so it no longer matters at all.
I have to say that when getting a quality item in house I do bot think I have ever regretted buying it.
When getting something (often cheap) with low quality - I have often regretted buing it...

[PMazz]

One way to rip thicker stock w/o stressing your saw too much is to set the blade height just above half way thru the stock thickness, make a rip, then flip it over to finish cutting all the way thru.

[JonMarsh]

That's flipping it over length wise...

A good tip to remember- I've done that a few times in the past...

[sdl2112]

Another thing to check for all high power tools is the electrical circuit. It's good to have a dedicated feed. When I first set up my table saw at my girlfriends house it would bog at start-up and under heavy load. I checked the circuit and it was a daisy chained circuit with 14awg wire. I ran a dedicated 10awg circuit to the breaker box and it was a night and day difference. It would start right up with little bog under load. It's nice that you have 220V there although I don't know what your building wire code requires.

[TEK]

Thanks for the input!
In norway I think that the requirements for a 16amp course (what I have) is 2,5mm2 that is about 13awg. I di however have a 10m cord from the wall socket to the saw (Inwill make it shorter when I have the location of the saw sorted out). And it is 1,5mm2 (approx 15awg).
I have however had no issues with the saw starting, running or delivering power. It's just working.
Yeasterday I ripped 2m long 7cm thick beech wood on the saw with no efford at all, and the saw didn't seem to notice it at all.
I'm into using a rip blade more to save the blade as well as making it easy/fast to rip thick boards.

[Steve Manning]

Saw looks nice TEK ..... Looks like your getting a nice setup going there.

[TEK]

Hi

I'm working on a dust extraction system and I need some input.
The saw has two dust extraction point.
100mm below the table
45mm above the table (at the gard)
I currently has this setup:

(This is a first step/prototype for a full blow shop dust extraction system).

The hose to the gard is 50mm.
The hose to below the saw is 100mm.
I think I want more suction at the gard and are thinking about swapping the y-connector and hose to 75mm. The connection point at the gard will still be 45mm.

So my question is:
Will a 2m house with 75mm diameter and a 45mm hole at the end have better suction than a 2m long with 50mm diameter and a 45mm hole at the end given that you have the same suction source in both cases?

[BobEllis]

Totally different answer than what you asked, but my reaction to that setup is to try to relocate the junction so that you have smoother bends in the hoses. The hose from the guard should be as straight as possible without interfering with outfeed. The sharp angles on the common hose from junction to dust collector are limiting your flow. Try moving to the junction to flow horizontally, perhaps on a pole on casters so you can adjust as needed for various cuts. Or lengthen the top hose and put it all to the floor.

Assuming smooth changes in diameter, you should get better flow with the same suction on the larger hose. Worst case an adapter with no length so there's a 90° angle in the flow will probably end up about the same net flow. (Gut feel, no calculation)

[Steve Manning]

+1 on what Bob said ..... smooth transitions are always better for flow than sharp bends. The basic answer to your question though ...... typically the flow is going to restricted by the smallest aperture in the system, in this case the 45 mm opening. Going to a larger hose on the other side of it, won't really gain you much, if anything.

[Steve Manning]

Hey TEK, you mentioned having a full blown shop system ...... If your planning on using the dust extractor that you have might I offer a suggestion to improve performance considerably, add a second stage cyclone to your system. You can go two ways ..... buy something like this cyclone and drum. I have these and they work very well. Though based on availability in your neck of the woods and how long it took to get your saw, you could make something like this Thien filter and have it sit on top of a trash can. The advantage of adding the second stage is increased air flow for the system and eliminating a majority of the dust and debris from getting to your filter and clogging it. I found it also eliminates clogging the main collector from large shaving from my planer, which was a constant pain.

[TEK]

Thanks for the input.
Right now this is a prototype/quick fix setup. I'm aware the issues about tight bends, however there is quite mutch suction on the 100mm hose, so I do feel the need to know more about how a small hose vs a small hole affect the air flow first.
It seems to me that your gut feeling is that the smallest section of the path the air have to travel is the most influencing factor. Thats interesting input as it is the oposite of what my gut feeling tells me.
To me this means that I have to find some theory or formula that can give me a more definitive answare before I should bother getting more parts.

About the full dust collection system, here is my ideas so far:
- I have a technical room that is a part of my "workshop".
I planning on putting the dust collector in there. I will add a DIY cyclon or thien filter (not sure yet, most likely a thien filter)
- I will lead the output from the dust system outside the shop (trough a wooden wall) using 110mm pipes
- I will make 3 - 5 suction points spread out in the shop. They will be connected with 110mm pipes
- Two of the suction point will be with two suction points, like the one at the table saw
- I will make 1 DIY blast gate at each suction point
- I hope to be able to connect this so he dust extractor will turn on whenever a blast gate is opened up.
- As the engine is in another room there will be very little noise, and it will not use shop area ;-)

[dar47]

I would have a hanger for the top hose coming to the floor with the union on the floor. Telescope from the source out to create better velocity or (have the largest pipe closest to the collector and smaller pipe closest input. Not sure if you can get but that branch 45 deg. fittings sucks, think a full flow tee (size on size) then reduce to your pipe size. It's not always pressure, velocity matters when moving particles and chips and smaller pipe has greater velocity.

[Steve Manning]

Hey TEK .... sounds like you have a good plan for moving forward. As for the gut feeling ..... it's actually based on years working with vacuum systems and occasionally doing some conductance calculations along the way for system design and component selection. I've had more than a few ah ha moments over the years discovering how that stuff actually works.

[TEK]

I would have a hanger for the top hose coming to the floor with the union on the floor. Telescope from the source out to create better velocity or (have the largest pipe closest to the collector and smaller pipe closest input.

I'm sorry Dar, but I'm don't get what you are suggesting here.
Probably because English is not my first language and I'm really a newbee to all this duction and pipe stuff.

Not sure if you can get but that branch 45 deg. fittings sucks, think a full flow tee (size on size) then reduce to your pipe size. It's not always pressure, velocity matters when moving particles and chips and smaller pipe has greater velocity.

You mean using this:

and then a reducer

instead of this:


A last option is this and close off the center one and use a reducer on the other:
(hopefully not neccesarly)

[TEK]

Hey TEK .... sounds like you have a good plan for moving forward. As for the gut feeling ..... it's actually based on years working with vacuum systems and occasionally doing some conductance calculations along the way for system design and component selection. I've had more than a few ah ha moments over the years discovering how that stuff actually works.

Ahh, that's useful information.
Mine is based on just guesswork and no experience at all, so that gives your gut feeling a lot more cred than mine

[dar47]

Your English is good, you got it those are size on size full flow fittings. When you need to telescope to smaller pipe you use reducers after these fittings. Sorry, TeK day job is Planning and Design of Natural Gas distribution networks so I was using that language. If there is a cabinet furniture factory near you, you should go take a look so you can see how they branch things. Most systems bring piping up to the ceiling for distribution or bring it low near the floor but generally distribute the same size pipe with smooth pipe. I don't like those flex pipes but some times when you want to move the intake from tool to tool it's easier especially if your tools a not the same fixed location always.

[TEK]

I have been looking around a bit to fogure out if I should go for a thien or cyclone design.
After looking at the thien design I'm a bit worried that large chops (like the once from a hand planer) might clog up the opening.
Based on this I will be going for a cyclone design.
Came over this site in that regard: http://billpentz.com/

I wondering a bit about the design.
Ideally I would like to make it out of steel, but I cannot weld...
I'm mostly thinking about making the cone of 2 layers of 2-3mm mdf. I think that should work ok!

[PMazz]

This is where I get all my stuff. They have some info that might be useful.

Air Handling Systems