SbAcoustics SATORI TW29RN vs TW29R

[Audiophile100%]

they seems the same tw but neo motor....
what are your impression, which is better ?
excuseme for bad question:W

[5th element]

Which is better? In my opinion the neo version.

As you said they both appear to be the same tweeter but with different magnet types. Well indeed the dome and voice coil assembly look to be the same, the moving mass is identical as is the xmax and voice coil Re/Le.

The only real differences between the tweeters is the motor strength made possible by the high intensity neo magnet. This in turn raises the neo versions sensitivity by a few dB, raises its resonance frequency and also lowers its Qts. These changes could be of great concern if the tweeter already had a fairly high fs and thus the changes would warrant an increase in xover frequency vs the ferrite version, but in this case they don't.

The fact of the matter here is that the neo version will work just as well in pretty much any intended application vs the ferrite version but will require less power to do it. Now sure all this really means is that you're going to pad the neo version down more with resistors but even so it will result in less power compression within the tweeter itself, which is always a good thing. Plus the extra sensitivity will give you more flexibility depending on what crossover work needs to be done.

[Audiophile100%]

thank you

[sdl2112]

Which is better? In my opinion the neo version.

As you said they both appear to be the same tweeter but with different magnet types. Well indeed the dome and voice coil assembly look to be the same, the moving mass is identical as is the xmax and voice coil Re/Le.

The only real differences between the tweeters is the motor strength made possible by the high intensity neo magnet. This in turn raises the neo versions sensitivity by a few dB, raises its resonance frequency and also lowers its Qts. These changes could be of great concern if the tweeter already had a fairly high fs and thus the changes would warrant an increase in xover frequency vs the ferrite version, but in this case they don't.

The fact of the matter here is that the neo version will work just as well in pretty much any intended application vs the ferrite version but will require less power to do it. Now sure all this really means is that you're going to pad the neo version down more with resistors but even so it will result in less power compression within the tweeter itself, which is always a good thing. Plus the extra sensitivity will give you more flexibility depending on what crossover work needs to be done.

It would be interesting to see the distortion of the two. I bet the neo has even lower distortion since the motor is in higher saturation due to the stronger neo magnet.

[5th element]

I hadn't considered that but you are correct. It would be interesting to see. The ferrite version already has very low 3rd, 4th and 5th order harmonics. As is usual with ring radiators it has relatively high 2nd order distortion, I doubt that would change as it seems to be dominated by the structure of the soft parts rather than the motor, but the 3rd order could potentially be lowered a little, especially at higher drive levels.

[Audiophile100%]

I hadn't considered that but you are correct. It would be interesting to see. The ferrite version already has very low 3rd, 4th and 5th order harmonics. As is usual with ring radiators it has relatively high 2nd order distortion, I doubt that would change as it seems to be dominated by the structure of the soft parts rather than the motor, but the 3rd order could potentially be lowered a little, especially at higher drive levels.

about your point of view under distortion profile the neo version will be better ?
my question is : with the same dome but different stronger motor (neodinium version) the distortion is more then ferrite ?

[5th element]

No the distortion should be less with the neodymium version. As the top plate and pole piece are saturated more heavily with magnetic flux this improves linearity as it keeps the magnetic field within the gap more linear when it is opposed by the flux created within the coil.

There is also a limit on how much flux (as far as I am aware) a set amount of steel can channel through to the air gap. If you increase the magnetic field strength beyond this point it will not increase the amount of flux within the air gap, but when the flux is opposed by the voice coil I am guessing that the extra strength is then made use of by preventing the field strength from being modulated. Anyone with more knowledge on magnetics want to chime in on this?

[Audiophile100%]

No the distortion should be less with the neodymium version. As the top plate and pole piece are saturated more heavily with magnetic flux this improves linearity as it keeps the magnetic field within the gap more linear when it is opposed by the flux created within the coil.

yes infact the neo version spl is more linear then ferrite motor, but less extended in low frequencies
ok, but with my main doubt is that the neodymium version will "scream and scratchy " more than ferrite version, pass me the term, the ferrite version should be "warmer sound"

[5th element]

Why would the neo version scream and be scratchy? If its linearity is higher this doesn't make any sense.

The lower end is more rolled off simply because the motor strength is higher and the Qts is therefore lower. This has no bearing whatsoever on how the tweeter will sound as its lower end roll off is shaped exactly by the high pass in the crossover.

Warmth is also not an attribute attached to tweeters. Warmth comes from the midrange/lower midrange not the high frequencies. Listen to a tweeter on its own with a high pass in place, it sounds like it's spitting at you. For the most part tweeters just fill in instruments upper harmonics, produce sibilants and 'air' noises.

[Audiophile100%]

1 - i think that more sensitivity add more distorotion
2 - R version has less sens than RN but more extended in low freqs and higther qts, so i think R is more full bodied then RN that could be thiner.
3 - R has less sens but better bandwidth in low region
4 - i'm not expert

[augerpro]

yes infact the neo version spl is more linear then ferrite motor, but less extended in low frequencies

The reference to linearity is with respect to harmonic distortion, not frequency response

1 - i think that more sensitivity add more distorotion
2 - R version has less sens than RN but more extended in low freqs and higther qts, so i think R is more full bodied then RN that could be thiner.
3 - R has less sens but better bandwidth in low region
ok, but with my main doubt is that the neodymium version will "scream and scratchy " more than ferrite version, pass me the term, the ferrite version should be "warmer sound"

I think all of these notions would be dispelled under blind A/B testing (once crossed and Eq'ed the same)

[Audiophile100%]

The reference to linearity is with respect to harmonic distortion, not frequency response

please explain me better.
thank you

[Audiophile100%]

@ 5th element
before i buy tweeter i have a doubt between SBAcoustics Satori TW29RN and Scan-Speak D6600
i don't tech skill to analyze that, so i ask you

[5th element]

please explain me better.
thank you

How flat the frequency response is = linear distortion. This can be fixed by the crossover.

Extra tones produced by the driver that should not be there originally = non linear distortion and cannot be fixed by the crossover.

1 - i think that more sensitivity add more distorotion
2 - R version has less sens than RN but more extended in low freqs and higther qts, so i think R is more full bodied then RN that could be thiner.
3 - R has less sens but better bandwidth in low region
4 - i'm not expert

1) Higher sensitivity, if all things are equal, usually results in less distortion, not more.
2) If you were to listen to the tweeters without any crossover then yes, the ferrite version would sound more full bodied. This is not how we listen to tweeters though. For it to integrate properly with your loudspeaker it will require a crossover. Regardless of what tweeter you use the tweeters frequency response, after the crossover has been applied, will be (or should be) exactly the same in both cases. If the tweeter has a higher Qts then you need to attenuate its lower end more via the crossover than if it had a lower Qts.
3) The tweeters usable bandwidth down low is determined entirely by its non linear distortion performance. Lots of high quality tweeters extend down as low as 500Hz but you would never use them this low. They need to be used between 1500-2000Hz and with steep crossovers most of the time.
4)Clearly!

@ 5th element
before i buy tweeter i have a doubt between SBAcoustics Satori TW29RN and Scan-Speak D6600
i don't tech skill to analyze that, so i ask you

The main difference between these two drivers is their off axis performance. The TW29RN is a ring dome and the D6600 a standard soft dome. The D6600 will have slightly more energy output off axis vs the TW29RN. In my room I prefer the sound of ring domes as the lower amount of high frequency energy, in room, sounds far more pleasant.

Both tweeters have very low non linear distortion and are robust enough to handle shallower, lower xovers. The TW29RN does however have more linear xmax so should theoretically handle them better.

[Audiophile100%]

thank you!
i have seen the datasheet of the two tweeters, seems that the RN has also better off axis response then d6600