DIY project advice , please.

[Alaric]

If all goes well , I will be building a set of speakers with my daughter in the near future. It's a project I've been promising her and I should , finally , have the (limited) resources for it. I originally planned on the PE TriTrix kit for reasons of cost and simplicity. Cabinet making is not an option. I don't have the tools and the budget disallows having someone else make them. Also , floorstanders with the drivers up off the floor works well with her mother's idiot cats.

So , my questions , to start with anyway , are these: Does anyone have any suggestions for upgrades to the crossover components , like better caps , resistors , etc.? Or another kit that will provide some semblance of SQ within the environmental restrictions ? The build will necessarily include a stereo receiver or small integrated and FM tuner. Possibly one of the small Dayton Audio amps , or another source for a T amp since PE pulled their advertising here. I'm open to ideas and suggestions on both fronts at this point. My daughter has waited patiently for a long time and I'd like to make this a quality project as much as possible. Thanks for any ideas!

[BobEllis]

I only have a comment on cat resistance. Make the cabinets quite tip resistant, which may mean outriggers and a weighted base. Also make grills. My son's cat, like most, jumps up on things with hind feet hitting the vertical surface and a bit of scrambling to get to the top. I've had surrounds shredded by claws. The problem has gotten worse with age, as she seems to misjudge how high she needs to jump and scrambles more. I also watched her jump across from the equipment rack and ride the speaker down as it toppled sideways. Fortunately no injuries and that seemed to cure her of wanting to do be on top of the speakers. Not that I recommend tippy speakers. If the cats want to get on the speakers, contact paper sticky side up on the top will usually train them to avoid that surface in short order.

Enjoy the build with your daughter, whatever the final kit chosen. I wasn't able to get either of my kids interested enough to do that. My son is now interested in learning to solder as his cosplay calls for lighting with LEDs. Maybe he'll start down this path one day.

[Alaric]

Good advice on the cat issue! Only one of the two will be a vertical challenge. The other cat weighs almost 30 pounds and has given up jumping. And running. And walking. LOL The TriTrix do indeed look potentially tippy. Hmm. She currently has a very old pair of heavy monkey coffins , 23" H , 14" D , and 10" D. They are great cabinets but the drivers and "crossover" (one resistor and an L pad) leave a lot to be desired. They are sealed with 12" woofers , a mid , and a tweeter. They were bought at an Olsen Electronics in the 60s. I don't have the skills to re use the cabinets for an upgrade , but I'll study and play with Jeff Bagby's Passive Crossover Designer and see if I can get a feel for the process. That would require some measuring equipment , but it might be doable.

Initially , I was thinking that with the small BOM in the TT crossovers , some significant upgrades in materials may be affordable , but I wouldn't know where the cut off point would be with the drivers. I'm sure at some price point it just gets silly.

[Alaric]

edit: &@#! double post.

[---k---]

The TriTrix is a solid design, but it is getting long in the tooth. My personal opinion is it that with this design you would not be rewarded by fancy caps/resistors, and any extra dollars would be better spent upgrading the drivers in a different design. I'm not saying don't build it. If your requirements are prefab floor standing box, you're limited - from what I've seen on the web.

My/CJD Ochocinco project was designed to hit about the same price point as the TriTrix, with newer/better drivers. I think it really hit it out of the park. It is designed to fit inside PE's prefab boxes; which aren't cheap, but don't require cutting. The surface mounted ND140 only requires a jigsaw to cut and the tweeter a hole saw. Finally, it was designed to be driven by a cheap 8-ohm receiver (though it likes power) and placed close to the walls where women like them. But, it isn't a floor stander....

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/ has a bunch of kits with pre-fab cnc boxes. They are very reasonably priced, considering. It is just a side job for Erich and I don't think he is making money off it. I didn't see any floor standing kits. Probably because shipping is more difficult and expensive. But, they do have their Volt coaxial that look like their intended to be hung on the wall. The Volt 10-LX might be an interesting option. http://www.diysoundgroup.com/coaxial...t-lxe-kit.html I've never heard this design. I'm sure there are tons of threads at AVS devoted to it, where I think a majority of their customers come from, looking for big home-theater sound.

http://melbyaudio.com/ also has full kits with CNC boxes. The guy who runs it hangs out on PE Tech Talk. You might be interested in Paul Carmondy's Core2 or Amiga designs. http://melbyaudio.com/collections/un...-flat-pack-kit . With the RS180 in there, they should be more resolving than the TriTrix. Of course it comes at a price. I've heard Paul's designs before. He does a good job. His design objectives lean towards making a speaker that rocks out more than perfecting the symphony.

[Alaric]

Paul's designs sound like a perfect fit for a 15 year old headbanger! Better sound quality is definitely where I want to go , but I have to bear in mind she likes the "big" sound of the primate afterlife transport devices. She appreciates good sound when she hears it , but Skillet would sound the same on Cerwin Vegas as it does on Vandersteens. :/ If any kind of cabinet work was an option I would go for a good bookshelf/stand mount design and just extend the box. Since we're talking a 15 year old , bigger will sound better. Yeah , it kills me , but she's a kid. LOL And she really likes Dad's Paradigms , but she ain't gettin' them. The aesthetics of a floorstander appeal to her , even though the baffles must be Very Green in black cabinets. And zombies. There may be zombies.

But , I digress. I'm considering Audiogon for a half decent amp , which would free up some cash for speakers. I'll check out those sites you linked to. I'm really looking forward to this project. We're also building her first computer , and she just amazes me with her skill and knowledge there. For the speakers she will learn soldering , assembly , painting , and the basics of audio , like the difference between caps and resistors in the signal path or not. Honestly , the best SQ result is my goal because she'll have them for a long time. I'm just trying to tie adolescent priorities in to something she'll appreciate when she isn't a teenager.

[Alaric]

Oh. My. God. Too bad about the price. LMAO http://www.diysoundgroup.com/feature...sive-1899.html

[dar47]

Your a lucky and unlucky man as this may cost you even more down the line, haha.

Jon's Nat P's in a pre-made PE's MTM cab would give her great sound for a long time. You could make or buy some cheap stands to anchor them down. This may open an option for her to save to add a sub later to give the big sound with refinement. This would give top notch system design before going to expensive drivers and xover parts.

Since she is a girl you can go to a flee sale and find some little end tables to re-purpose for stands and you can make her paint them!

[Alaric]

And now I have to take a hard look at the Nat P. That design has a stellar reputation , and you say PE has a cab for it? I knew this was going to be the difficult part of the process. LOL

[knifeinthesink]

Drivers for the nat p will be $300, $200 for cabinets, maybe $150-200 for crossovers. I was going to say the tritrix is really cheap and you won't likely find anything better for the money and then I remembered the zaph kits at madisound. https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.co...with-cabinets/
These drivers will destroy the ones in the tritrix.

[dar47]

Hope that leaves some for a sub for her too! Me pushing others to spend on their kids.ops:

[JonMarsh]

The Zaph kits should be really good value for the money- I like the ZA5 drivers quite a bit.

[Alaric]

That's a good looking deal on the Zaph kits , and some quality recommendations. I figured this would be the hard part. The Nat Ps are over budget , and the Zaphs may be as well. It depends on what I can save elsewhere. Time to scour the interwebz.

[---k---]

The enclosures are what is killing you on cost. If you could build simple boxes, you can build the speakers for much less.
The Ochocinco's I linked to above were like $85/ea including the wood and all.

[Alaric]

I wish I had the resources to build cabinets. As much as I'd love to spend the extra on drivers , etc. , I have to mind the aesthetics to some degree. These could well end up in a living room and I have to consider ex-WAF.

"The trick is , don't look at the audience and keep two chainsaws in the air at all times...."

[fbov]

This begs for an Overnight Sensation!

Seriously, I'm surprised no one's mentioned it, perhaps because it's **smaller** than the TriTrix???

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-overnightsensations

http://www.parts-express.com/overnight-sensations-mt-speaker-kit-pair--300-706

Aside from height, it seems like it meets all your needs, down to the custom flat pack. You'd need to solder the XO (Meniscus has a soldered option, but sans box). And there's an MTM option, too.

http://meniscusaudio.com/overnight-sensation-pair-p-1243.html

If they were affordable, Natalie P's might be a neat choice, especially since their namesake has fared quite well since their design. Two pair grace my HT, but they're clearly not a "starter" speaker in size, price, or capability.

One other thing... include Bluetooth in your music sources. Even radio is problematic (antennae), but few kids don't have music on a phone or media player that's BT-compatible.

Have fun,
Frank

[---k---]

I was stuck on him wanting a floor stander rather than a monitor + stands. Otherwise, there are a lot of great kits available, including the Overnight Sensation - though those would be too small for my taste in a living room.

[Alaric]

I was stuck on him wanting a floor stander rather than a monitor + stands. Otherwise, there are a lot of great kits available, including the Overnight Sensation - though those would be too small for my taste in a living room.

Yup. Even if I could squeeze a subwoofer in the budget , stands would be problematic with pets. (Not very bright pets) I have considered bookshelf speakers and just setting her up with a nice little T-amp , and could add a powered sub later. I should probably have a furniture discussion with the ex regarding this , but that would take all the fun out of showing up with 80 lbs. of stuff on a Saturday morning-"Surprise!".

[Renron]

+1 and up the ante on the Overnight Sensations to the MTM . DiySoundgroup has the whole she-bang for under $100 per speaker. ! DELIVERED!
Your not going to beat that, PLUS they are now being built with Baltic Birch plywood instead of MDF. Comes complete with the X-Overs too.

I've built 7 of them for our small Home Theater. For their size they have more bass than they should. Not subwoofer class mind you, but plenty for Rockin' out.
The wife unit constantly tells me to "turn it down a little", they can really throw out some volume. Not Nat P quality, but for the price....... Great deal.
Ron