Anyone from Chicago interested in Panzerholz?

[mzumwalt]

Hello everyone,

First post here.
I will be ordering a few sheets of Panzerholz B15 from BKB Industrial in Ontario, the North American distributor and was hoping someone else in the Chicago area might be interested in going in on a purchase to save on shipping costs.
Here are prices for various sized sheets in USD:
2130mm x 1000mm x 4mm $163
2130mm x 1000mm x 6mm $175
2130mm x 1000mm x 8mm $???
2130mm x 1000mm x 10mm $249 (2 sheet minimum)
2130mm x 1000mm x 12mm $273 (2 sheet minimum)
2130mm x 1000mm x 20mm $432
2130mm x 1000mm x 25mm $???
The 10mm and 12mm are not stocked, and would have to be ordered from Germany along with their next stocking order, hence the 2 sheet minimum. If anyone is interested in a single sheet of this size, maybe someone else will be as well and we can hit the minimum.
For a quantity of 2 sheets I was quoted a $60 skid packaging fee and $45 customs clearance, and approximately $90 shipping. I plan on ordering in about a week, so if anyone is interested, I will get an exact shipping cost on the complete order and we figure out how everyone will pick up their goods.
Please PM if interested.
Thanks!

Mark

[---k---]

I'm from Chicago, but am currently trying to clean out a garage and not able to do projects for a while. I'm going to have to pass.

But, wow that is some expensive stuff. I googled it and the website didn't have much info on it. What exactly is it? Have you tried Owl Hardwood locally to see if they have anything comparable. I wonder if they could order it and get a different price or know someone.

[Steve Manning]

Ryan ....... panzerholz is an extremely hard multilaminated material in sheet form. It is manufactured from beech veneers and synthetic resins under high pressure and heat. Extremely high density (so much so, it sinks in water), high strength (is used as a metal substitute), is bulletproof. Back in the day, WWII, they used it for armor on Panzer tanks, aka the name. Has very good resonance characteristics, found this article on it. http://www.lessloss.com/page.html?id=80. This might give Jon's LBL stuff a good run for it's money.

Steve

[---k---]

Thanks Steve.

[kevinm]

This is probably a dummy question, but I'd love a quick science lesson.

Isn't aluminum fairly resonant because it's metal and metals are good at transferring energy? My thought is striking a piece of aluminum with a hammer is of course going to make a lot of noise, so I am a little confused on how that's a fair comparison.

Second, the science behind it looks great, how would that transfer into the real world listening? Can we really hear the difference between something like LBL and MDF? Or does it also depend on how the cabinet is constructed?

[mzumwalt]

Thanks Steve. You pretty much summed it up along with an interesting link. The stuff is incredibly strong and machines beautifully, much more like acetal or metal than wood. I honestly don't think LBL would stand a chance, but then I don't think the cost is anywhere near what the Panzerholz (just a brand name for 'densified laminated wood'). All of it seems to be made in Germany, and while there are a couple American importers (its primary use is appears to be in the transformer industry) only the Delignit brand (Panzerholz) is stocked in 6mm sheets which is one of the sizes I need.
Like Ryan mentioned, Owl Hardwood is THE place to go for hardwood, furniture grade plywood, and of course Baltic birch. If there is anyone in Chicago who has not been there yet, you must go there right now. Great place, but no Panzerholz.
The cost seems outrageous if you compare it to plywood, as it looks much like a fancy Baltic birch, but if you compare the price to plate aluminum, which it is much closer to mechanically, it is almost a bargain (try pricing a 3' x7' sheet of 1/2" 6061).
Kevin- I think the comparison to aluminum is probably because of the relatively recent popularity of aluminum for speaker cabinets. YG, Magico, and Stenheim come to mind, and Goldmund has been doing it for ages.
The only speaker I know of made from Panzerholz is the Kaiser Kawero. Yes, they sound really really good, as they should for around $60k.

[dar47]

I look into this stuff a while back being only 1 Provence over I thought it might be an option for my Ardent build baffle only. I worried if the weight was an issue and I wasn't sure if I could cut the stuff with just a 1.5 horse table saw, might need a 3+ horse router as well. What are you making full cab or baffle only? Clear Audio use it for turn tables and table racks as well.

[Face]

I would love to use this for my current OB project(2 AE IB15 per side).

[mzumwalt]

I'm actually using it in an amplifier chassis, not a speaker (yet!), but I would imagine it would be an ideal material for a baffle, OB or otherwise. I have a small sample at home and it cuts beautifully on my 1.5 horse table saw. I use a 60T think kerf Freud Diablo ($40 @ Amazon) and it goes through it easily. Haven't done any routing, but based on how it works with the saw I'd wager there will be no need for a monster router. Just use a sharp carbide tipped bit and don't take off too much in a single pass.

[wkhanna]

OT, but Happy B-Day to dar47.

:dancenana:

[dar47]

Thanks, appreciate it. Such great people here.

[cjd]

Want? welllll....

but, not happening right now. SO many other things going on, just not... oof. nope.

[dar47]

Want to see what you guys do with this, may make some nice Ncore cases with this stuff later. Want now but must resist too.