ClarityCap Low series than MR...

[Audiophile100%]

I heard that the series below the mr, do not play optimally, why have a presentation devoid of dark detail.
what are your experiences?

[JonMarsh]

The Clarity paper on the development of the MR series really gives a thorough and detailed explanation of the University research they engaged in in order to reduce the coloration of the capacitors. There are two papers readily available you may want to read, if you're interested in their research and the things they did for improved construction.

http://www.madisound.com/pdf/claritycap/MRWhitePaper.pdf

http://www.partsconnexion.com/t/claritycap/Reseach_Summary.pdf

In the end, you may want to read online reviews, but your own listening experience should be the judge. I do like the Clarity MR caps quite a bit; a similar construction and sonic quality is available at somewhat lower price in the Jantzen Superior Z. Both use tightly constrained mechanical packaging to prevent vibration of the metallized film layers; the MR using a polycarbonate tube shell, the Superior Z using an aluminum tube shell.

[Audiophile100%]

thanks john, but I was referring to the lower leagues to the clarity of MR cap
has anyone compared the different series of calrity cap tonally?
I am very interested, but as you can understand before spending money I would like to have your opinion.
I read several reviews around but are discordant, but here it seemed to me you have a good consocenza of claritycap
thanks to those who want to answer

[JonMarsh]

yes I have, I am familiar with and have used all of the Clarity caps series. for a top flight speaker, the lower cost series work fairly well in LF applications and midrange, but for tweeter the MR is significantly better- IF the rest of your system justifies this. Here we are talking about HF coloration, and if one has an inexpensive CD player or DVD player for a music source, then spending the money on MR caps is likely not useful. the cap is just one part of the system...

[Audiophile100%]

what can you say about the ESA, SA, PX series campared to other brands ?
anybody says that all except the mr suond dark
do you compared them with other brands like mundorf ?

[JonMarsh]

Which Mundorf? For what application?

One thing I see frequently is that some listeners associate added HF distortion or energy with "air" or "definition". This often comes about when people mostly listen to recorded music, not to live acoustic music. The "definition" of the latter is very natural and not usually edgy, unless the instruments themselves are. I'm not referring to live rock and roll, which is not "live acoustic music" but to classical and jazz, for which there are clear referents between live performances and recordings.

If you want to stretch things a bit, and you have the budget, try Duelend cast capacitors. These are the best- but really only worth the price in a true reference design system, IMO- and still, this is mostly a matter for the treble drivers. ESA caps from Clarity, Jantzen Standard Z caps, and many others work pretty well for midrange and LF applications, though it is my preference to parallel tweeter grade caps with 2nd tier caps for a high grade midrange such as the top Accuton drivers.

I find Tony Gee's subjective impressions to usually be quite similar to my own, and he has worked with more different parts than I have, so I recommend giving this page a good read and some thought.

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html

For top flight caps consider the ones he marks with an asterisk. (*)

[Audiophile100%]

so, ESA, SA, PX how do they sound about you ?
do you tried them ?
sorry but I do not think they are comparable clarity ESA and Jantzen standard-Z
thank you

[JonMarsh]

As I wrote earlier in this thread,

yes I have, I am familiar with and have used all of the Clarity caps series. for a top flight speaker, the lower cost series work fairly well in LF applications and midrange, but for tweeter the MR is significantly better- IF the rest of your system justifies this. Here we are talking about HF coloration, and if one has an inexpensive CD player or DVD player for a music source, then spending the money on MR caps is likely not useful. the cap is just one part of the system...

If you go back through some of the speaker build threads, you'll see I have used ESA and PX in appropriate locations, particularly midrange and woofer respectively.

But in all cases I recommend you setup with your own playback system, and make judgements based on your personal evaluations. Keep in mind that even if you use a high quality tweeter in a two or three way system, if it is intrinsically colored due to frequency response errors, (like the Scanspeak 6620) judgements about capacitors may be skewed or not sufficiently objective. Even a relatively low cost but neutral tweeter with superior frequency response and just very good (but not great) distortion performance like the SB Acoustics SB26CTN-C000 may yield different perceptions about the relative ranking of capacitors. And it is an altogether different evaluation for using a lower cost capacitor in a shunt position in a crossover than as a series element. where I use the ESA (in midrange series element, in parallel with Jantzen Superior Z) I think they work fine, and are not a limiting factor in system performance.

Which brings up the system configuration, about which you haven't told us anything. Whether it makes sense to invest in capacitors that cost more than many good tweeters is, IMO, dependent on the quality of the rest of your signal chain.


Let's do a thought experiment, and imagine several different digital source configurations in general or specific terms, and for now ignoring important factors like choice of amplification or use of room treatments:

• System one: Sony or Marantz CD/SACD in price class up to $1K
• System 2: Sony or Marantz (or similar) CD or SACD player in $3500 to $7000 price range
• System three: CD player in up to $1,000 price range used as SPDIF transport to $1K DAC, such as Benchmark DAC
• System four: Professional CD transport or music optimized computer used with DAC in $2,000 to $5,000 price range, such as NAD M51, Berkely Audio Alpha DAC, or Metric Halo ULN-8 DAC, or Weiss 202
• System five: Network music player or PC/Mac, used with Mutec MC3 or Brainstorm DCD8 reclocking system, driving DAC such as described in system 4
• System six: High end network music player driving Brainstorm DCD8 digital reclocking system with wide sample rate non over sampling R2R ladder DAC such as TotalDAC-D1 or MSB Platinum Signature IV

which of these configurations would justify spending $100 to $200 or more on series capacitors for the tweeter, and what price/performance class should the tweeter be in? You can buy $300 tweeters all too frequently with substantial colorations... witness, the 6620. What makes sense from the perspective of neutrality and system balance and balance expenditures?

To a certain extent, every DIY experimenter must consider these issues for themselves, especially if you do hope to target high end applications. The choice of drivers and crossover components is quite different for building some compact high performance reasonable budget HT speakers for my daughter and her fiancé, but that doesn't mean that with good choices, a fair degree of neutrality can't be achieved. But how far it's reasonable to go depends in large part on the total system context and end user desires and experience. There is a place in the world for a good execution of a neutral design like the NatalieP, just as for myself, there's a place for the Isiris and Ardent. But they have very different component choices and design/cost tradeoffs.

What are the criteria governing yours?

[Audiophile100%]

double post, sorry

[Audiophile100%]

thanks for your disquisition, john
but I was trying to figure out if it's true what I read, and that is that the SA series and ESA sound dark / warm compared to Mundorf Supreme in basic version, for example.
i'm talking about tweeter caps
for top speakers I'll mount the MR, but for mid-range speakers?
I'm looking for capacitors that represent the best but not for top spekars.
that is, between the ESA and the Jantzen Superior Z-what are the differences, tony gee says the superior-Z are better than CC ESA
in what ?

[JonMarsh]

The Jantzen Superior Z offer performance very similar to the Clarity MR- that is, they have less grunge and haze in the reproduction of the upper midrange, IMO.

Keep in mind that in some cases "sounding dark" may be an advantage, if the capacitor is not ADDING presence region coloration or emphasis. With the MR or the Superior Z, spatiality clues and timbral reproduction are more natural and focussed to my ear. the drawback to Superior Z is that they are large, and expensive, relative to the capacitor values- a midrange crossover for a three way system could become very large and expensive. It's my experience that using them in parallel with good but lower cost caps like the ESA, you get the performance in the upper range of the Superior Z (probably due to it's lower ESR) and you get the necessary extension in response in the lower range from the secondary capacitor. An example is when you might need a net value of 75 uf for a midrange element, and use two 10uf or 15 uf Superior Z in concert with a lower cost capacitor. If your budget and space are unlimited, then using just the higher price cap might yield slight improvements - but only in the highest caliber system with associated components. It truly can be a point of diminishing returns.

[Audiophile100%]

ok.

the price of 4.7uF 800v superior-z is 18 euro each
the price of 4.7uF 630v ESA is 13 euro each
the difference in the price is low, then I could decide to take one or the other.
possible that the difference in tone between the two is very high?
I would like to understand why the ESA are snubbed?
they sound so bad?

[Face]

Where have you seen people say the ESA sounds bad? The ESA series has the benefits of the MR's improved spatial information, but is warmer sounding than the MR.

I've never been impressed by any cap made by Mundorf.

[Audiophile100%]

in review of tony gee, he says they are warm/dark
SA
"Sound: The Clarity Cap range has an overall similarity in tonal balance, going up the range you gain a bit in clarity and spatiality. I find the SA to be neutral with a slightly warmish presentation but also a bit closed-in. Compared to the Clarity Cap PX definition and separation are better, the stereo-image is also little larger. I did find the top end to be slightly rolled-off, not that they lacked detailed but on some recordings I wanted a fraction more transparency - but all in all still very nice. On the downside the "S" and "T" in vocals can be a bit plasticy, this is probably due to the lack in transparany in the top octave, making the octaves below sound a little masked. Making a capacitor using about 90% Clarity Cap SA and about 10% Mundorf Supreme works very well, this tends to open up the top end just nicely without altering anything else.

ESA
"Sound: Similar in overall character to the Clarity Cap SA but with more clarity and therefore a fraction more spatial. Like the SA they could still do with a bit more transparency but with a small bypass capacitor this can be improved. The ESA also has a slightly warmish presentation and also benefits from making a total value using about 90% Clarity Cap ESA and about 10% Mundorf Supreme. This opens up the top end just nicely without altering anything else. Good overall qualities and an upgrade from the standard Clarity Cap SA."

about mundorf i'm agree with you

do you compared ESA with other caps ?, such as mundorf supreme of jantzen superior-z

[dsrviola]

We interrupt this thread to bring you a little ClaritypCap pron

In case the lettering is too small: 35uf 400vdc Apologies for typo in subject line. Can't edit that.

[Audiophile100%]

wow, they are huge!
you've already tested them ?
in which application you will use them?
have you compared them with some other brand?
Tell us your thoughts on their sound!

[dsrviola]

wow, they are huge!
you've already tested them ?
in which application you will use them?
have you compared them with some other brand?
Tell us your thoughts on their sound!

Huge indeed! I didn't look at the dimension specs as closely as I should have. 8O

Tested them? For what? If you're referring to how they sound, I've been using the MR caps in crossovers circuits, so I'm already familiar with their particular sound signature. They'll be used in the high pass portion of the midrange circuit for an Accuton C90-6-079. I think the write ups by Tony Gee and Jon L (audiocircle.com) are pretty much on the mark with the MR series. Their sonic signature seems to be a good match for the mid and tweeter I'm using. I've used Mundorf Supreme, S/O and S/G/O, Audiocap Theta, Sonicap (regular and platinum), Auricaps, and V-Caps (tftf and cutf) as far as "premium" caps go. They all have their places. I think the MRs are really difficult to beat for the money. I've not tried the Jantzens that Mr. Marsh seems to like.

[Audiophile100%]

thank you for your answer.
you mentioned "Mundorf Supreme, O/S and S/G/O, AUDIOCAP Theta, Sonicap (Regular and platinum), Auricaps, and V-Caps (TFTF and cutf)"
it would be really interesting if you explain the sonic differences especially between the MR series and the Mundorf s / oes / g / or

[dsrviola]

thank you for your answer.
you mentioned "Mundorf Supreme, O/S and S/G/O, AUDIOCAP Theta, Sonicap (Regular and platinum), Auricaps, and V-Caps (TFTF and cutf)"
it would be really interesting if you explain the sonic differences especially between the MR series and the Mundorf s / oes / g / or

To my ears, the MR series has more energy in the lower treble than either of the Mundorfs. While the Mundorfs may sound more airy/extended in the treble, they also sound noisier and less dynamic. Some people might find the MR range to be sterile sounding in comparison. I don't fine that to be the case, but if you're looking for a cap that injects some kind of warmth to the sound, whether in the bass or midrange, the MRs are definitely NOT the cap for you. Of ALL the caps I've used, I think the MRs are the most linear from top to bottom and quite possibly the most quiet. YMMV

[Audiophile100%]

....a think also that the mundorf may be airy for their emphasis on the trebles.
so, yes mundorf are airy but not really natural in sound, they add something wrong in the trebles and remove some harmonic in low end.
to my ears the "airy" of mundorf is something "compress" than more open and harmoics trebles of claritycap.
claritycap seem not airy than mundorf but it is not : the high of claritycap are in the a large space around the speakers, those of mundorf are confined in a smaller area.

this is my point of view, are you agree with me ?

[dsrviola]

....a think also that the mundorf may be airy for their emphasis on the trebles.
so, yes mundorf are airy but not really natural in sound, they add something wrong in the trebles and remove some harmonic in low end.
to my ears the "airy" of mundorf is something "compress" than more open and harmoics trebles of claritycap.
claritycap seem not airy than mundorf but it is not : the high of claritycap are in the a large space around the speakers, those of mundorf are confined in a smaller area.

this is my point of view, are you agree with me ?

I think we're just using different words to say the same thing.

[Audiophile100%]

:W yes