My Wavecor Ardent with center build

[Matt M]

Put the Mic a few centimeters from one of the wavecors and do an acoustic measurement without any gating. The room reflections are still there but negligible in level. What you get is similar to an anechoic, infinite baffle reading of the woofer.

A good rule of thumb for measuring distance that way is driver diameter, in this case 20cm.
If you want to get a clean reading into the lowest frequencies, you can move the mic closer. Up to 1cm.

Keep in mind that this kind of measurement is only useful in the range up to a few hundred Hertzes. Beyond that you will only measure interferences between the drivers that don't provide much insight.

With the Ardents it might also be useful to place the mic 5 to 20cm from the baffle between the woofers.
You should get close enough so that the wiggles causes by the room get insignificant. Then repeat with the second speaker using the exact same positioning.
-Matt

[JonMarsh]

Also, that measurement will reveal BSC compensation, done near field that way, so don't expect it to look totally flat. But this kind of near field measurement is always something I do in evaluating the driver itself.

If you measure near field at about 6 inches (OK, 10 cm) between the woofers, you'll likely see something similar to the upper curve in this measurement:



Then there is no room influence to speak of, but also you are seeing only 180 degree wavefront, not the effective response as the bass radiation is about 360 degrees once you get a wavelength or so away from the cabinet. This is why speakers are tuned quite differently if they are truly designed for near field listening, and one designed for that won't sound right at a distance.

Here is the same cabinet at a normal measurement distance with a fairly optimal room placement, but no room treatments.

[TEK]

Thank's both of you. Hope I might get this tested tomorrow. A bit much on the plate today.

normal measurement distance

What is normal measurement distance?

[TEK]

OK, then I have got to do the near-field measurement.
The graph is shown below.

The purple graph is for the left speaker, the blue/green for right speaker.
The graphs are not 100% the same, but they are quite close. I assume that the difference between them might as well be that the mic placement is 1 cm off between the speakers.
I measured about 10cm from the elements, between the two bass elements.

Based on this I assume I can declare that the speakers are working as they should and that I now have done everything correct :T
Do the more experienced here agree about that?

[JonMarsh]

Looks good to me, TEK! :T

[TEK]

Then I official declare my Wavecore Ardent build completed :T:B:hb:banana:

Hmm, what now... :stupid:

[BobEllis]

The thread is titled "My Wavecor Ardent with Center build". Did you do a third Wavecor Ardent? :W

[JonMarsh]

Then I official declare my Wavecore Ardent build completed :T:B:hb:banana:

Hmm, what now... :stupid:

Relax and enjoy them for a while... then something else will strike out of the blue! Also, "normal" people (unlike me) shouldn't always be in the process of building speakers. For some of us, it's like art- just cause you have one or two or three paintings on the wall, you dont stop painting new things. OTOH, significant others can be bothered at times by that approach... unless they have a compelling activity also, and can relate emotionally.

[TEK]

I'm not sure if I'm normal...

I still have the speakers for my living-room to build, as discussed in this thread: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...he-living-room
All parts are in place, so it is just about doing the actual build. That is going to start quite soon - as my better half is awaiting those speakers.

Then there is the amp project, as briefly discussed in this thread: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...avecor-Ardents
That is probably a bit longer into the future - but things seems to move forward at a steady pace there as well.

And then there is the center, as BobEllis said; the thread is indeed titled "My Wavecor Ardent with Center build", so there are still work to do before this thread has come to a end.
If anyone has input and ideas for a Wavecor Ardent center speakers, proved designs, sketches of ideas, views on element selection and so on - please post it here. Finding a center or - if so bee needed - designing on (my first if that happens) will be the next focus on this thread.
So please, come on and give input and ideas here.

[BobEllis]

Yeah, when the speaker building bug bites, it bites hard. Sounds like you should work on the In-Khans to keep the better half happy.

I think one of the original builders made a horizontal center with C90, 6640 and 7" Wavecors. (DAR?) As mentioned earlier, I am planning a "stubby" version as a center. Shorter overall height, but deeper to maintain internal volume, probably with a vertical back and laid back baffle. If I go with a Wavecor version, the crossover will likely be very similar to what's already designed, but it might need some tweaking to deal with slightly different floor bounce reflections. The mid-tweet XO will probably be OK as is. This won't happen until Spring, but it sounds like you have plenty to keep you busy until then.

[TEK]

Yeah, the In-Khans are the number 1 priority for now, that's for sure.

If you have a sketch or something of your idea, I would love to see it. Please post it her.
I think Dar47 has a center, and that is a option I'm will looking into. My center will have to be laying on it's side, so I think I will have to make a different design than the Ardents. Will have to look into different options. Dar47's fit's the bill nicely in that regard.
I also think that the center will give me a new opportunity to see if I can get that finish just perfect the second time around ;-)

[BobEllis]

I am CAD illiterate, so just take the current cabinet and cut it off 3" below the bottom woofer. Make it deeper and make the back vertical. Some bracing changes required, but keep the same top facets and mid chamber. I'll probably cut some smaller than normal facets on the bottom just to have some. I haven't crunched the numbers but my gut tells me it may only take an inch or two extra depth on top make up lost volume if the back is vertical.

[JonMarsh]

I'm not sure if I'm normal...

I still have the speakers for my living-room to build, as discussed in this thread: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...he-living-room
All parts are in place, so it is just about doing the actual build. That is going to start quite soon - as my better half is awaiting those speakers.

Then there is the amp project, as briefly discussed in this thread: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...avecor-Ardents
That is probably a bit longer into the future - but things seems to move forward at a steady pace there as well.

And then there is the center, as BobEllis said; the thread is indeed titled "My Wavecor Ardent with Center build", so there are still work to do before this thread has come to a end.
If anyone has input and ideas for a Wavecor Ardent center speakers, proved designs, sketches of ideas, views on element selection and so on - please post it here. Finding a center or - if so bee needed - designing on (my first if that happens) will be the next focus on this thread.
So please, come on and give input and ideas here.

well, I have a tentative plan for a center channel, too- I really need to replace what my GF is using, and that was something from NHT I just had around and gave to her because the original one she had performed so poorly.

Anyway, my idea is a sealed box version of the C18EN001 three way, with two SW223BD01 flanking the Seas concentric driver. Should have great articulation and dispersion for vocals and all the usual center channel stuff in any direction- up, down, and sideways. With the usual CC crossover, I guess one doesn't need the heft of the SW223BD01, but I sure do like how those drivers work.

[BobEllis]

My wallet just flinched. I may hold off on my center.

[TEK]

That sounds interesting Jon.
I guess that you think that a center with this setup will fit the voicing of the wavecor ardents and be a good match to those?
I think many will like a DIY version of a center channel to go with the Ardents.

How sure are you about the iorst edition of this design going to use the SW223BD01 drivers, and not for example the SW223BD02 or the SW182BD.
I notice that it seems like the SW223BD01 still is available at some european shops, and I wonder if I should order some while they still are available.

[dar47]

PM sent on my thoughts of a center.

[Renron]

My wallet just flinched. I may hold off on my center.

Mine puckered! Ooooo.

Perhaps a less expensive coaxial driver? like the Seas T18REX/XFC (H1353) ?
I built a center channel with one and it works pretty darn well. It could do with some more Umph thou. Pair of the smaller wavecor on either side?
Ron

[TEK]

Playing around with some sketches... I think that I might like this shape. It also strongly connects the center speaker to the ardents.

[TEK]

Input? Ideas? Views?
Hate, Love, could not care less8O

[BobEllis]

Good form tie in to the Ardents. Get building. :rofl:

[benthe8track]

I was thinking something like this for a centre eventually:

[TEK]

That gives you some strong limitations on the tweeter/mid.
What elements would you use?

[benthe8track]

Off the top of my head the C18EN001 suggested by Jon sounds like a cool option. One could probably package that with smaller Wavecor units like a SW182BD01 or something. Driver selection/IEEE stuff is not my wheelhouse, however, I can CAD a mean box.

[TEK]

Høm, that might work. Wonder if Jon have som input/toughts on this :-)

[Renron]

Hey Tek,
I thought you had some speakers to build for you wife unit? If she catches you thinking about building a center channel............Oh man! :frypan:

How about something like this;
Baffle parallel to the back panel

[TEK]

Ron, I think you and my idea is quite simular, more variation over the same design.
Benth8track suggestion is consideral different.
If I'm not mistaking, that design is an actual center from Avalon Acoustics. Is there a grill to that center?

Have to say that I do think my/ron's design looked a little easier to build than the avalon design.
But then again - who have said that easy is a goal...

[benthe8track]

Ron, I think you and my idea is quite simular, more variation over the same design.
Benth8track suggestion is consideral different.
If I'm not mistaking, that design is an actual center from Avalon Acoustics. Is there a grill to that center?

Have to say that I do think my/ron's design looked a little easier to build than the avalon design.
But then again - who have said that easy is a goal...

I think a grill could work easily enough.
After you guys built the Ardents without using a CNC or a panel saw I'm not too worried about ease of assembly In my head it would be made in 3 parts and the facets are small enough that the whole thing could be done on a table saw. I'll get to sketching.

[TEK]

OK, then my B&W Nautilus 803 has left the building and me and my Wavecor Ardent's are all alone here.
So - now the Wavecor Ardent's will have to show that they can stand up to the coming abuse in several years to come without failing - cause I have no backup speakers anymore - they better continue to work!

[Renron]

If they quit working, Tek, who's fault, Tek , would that be? Tek.
You've got Industrial strength woofers, a ceramic cone and a Beryllium dome. Sounds like a spacecraft.
Ron

[TEK]

If they quit working, Tek, who's fault, Tek , would that be? Tek.
You've got Industrial strength woofers, a ceramic cone and a Beryllium dome. Sounds like a spacecraft.
Ron

It will for sure not be mine :banana:

[Renron]

:laughat:

[Hdale85]

Did anything happen in regards to a center? Why not use the same drivers as the Ardents? Obviously you wouldn't get the same sort of low end extension due to cabinet size but I'm not sure that's really an issue in a center channel where a sub will be used.

[TEK]

Hi
No, I still haven’t got around to building a center.
The main reason is that there have not been designed a Ardent center confirming to the Ardent look’n feel.
If that is not an important factor there are other centers that go well with the Ardent.
If I recall correctly DAR47 had a center designed that goes very well with tha Ardents (but not with a faceted design).

[BobEllis]

I’d planned to build a center, hoping that if I had something built Jon might find time to help me tweak the crossover. I haven’t found the time to build and Jon has too much going on to even dream of asking him for help.

The good news is that the Ardents image so well that they do a great job with the processor set to phantom center mode. At least for the two of us that the system serves. Maybe we’d want a center if we entertained larger groups but dialog stays firmly planted on screen while walking around the room. I now don’t plan a center unless I get really bored and need a project. Faceted surrounds and subs are a much higher priority.

[TEK]

For a facet sub build you might want to check out this thread:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?40797-Ardent-inspired-sub-project-element-and-amps-arrived

[dar47]

Okay if you need a center with facets to match it would not be that hard, the decision on tweets easy 6600 like I did or 6640, got use the same mid or maybe the 3" version. The woofers I went for the 7" SW182BD01/02 but they have less spl throw then my old WMTW Dayton center with the 225's, (those you can feel the gun fire in your chest at 18').
If size is not a concern well add the 9" woofs increase box and call your center very Large! I will work out a box with facets and Keep my placing and volume and you can purchase the xover for a very reasonable price from Rick Craig if he is up for that. Rick xover blends perfect with the Ardents and having the same mid ties the voices seamlessly together for movies.