high efficient designs played out?

[mph33]

im reading more and more about how waveguides are better suited for ht vs music. what designs out there can compete with high efficient horn systems? we want it loud, not to revealing, and bad ass!

this thread is motivated by my total let down after listening to some fusion tempest. great for ht, not so good for music. that is for rock and metal. guitars sounded very recessed and the vocals were in your face. major let down

[---k---]

I don't know the answer to your question. I wish there were a single speaker to rule them all, but I don't think there is.

Question, when you say the Fusion Tempest were a let down, what were you comparing them to? What is your reference? How were you comparing?
I haven't been keeping up on the latest waveguide talk. From what I've read there are definite advantages to waveguides, but I'm not sure we're pairing them with the right drivers yet for our objectives. I'm interested in hear some, but thus far haven't had a chance.

Thanks

[cjd]

The waveguide fad does nothing for efficiency or sensitivity. You're not really asking a question with an answer.

There are always tradeoffs.

A good system will do well with anything but bad source. That said, most are tuned to some subjective sense of euphonic sound, our to make dialog a little more clear in the commonly mediocre sound mixes people end up with, or...

I've been pondering a much higher sensitivity system just to see how it goes but too many projects in the pipe right now. Some day. 90.5dB@1M is the highest I've done so far.

[JonMarsh]

Highly efficient designs will always be large, because of Hoffman's Iron law- the more LF extension you want, the larger they will be-


This is the one built by the guy who designed the DAC I use, and I can assure you it's not "optimized" for rock or metal, but for neutral reproduction of music.






But in a moderately high commercial speaker, that has potential for cloning with the right choice of drivers (using the new Seas Concentric driver for the mid/tweeter), I'd listen to the TAD Reference 1 and see if it's to your liking.




This type of configuration uses the concentric midrange driver to operate as a waveguide for the tweeter. The sensitivity is sufficient that with a light house curve, achieving 90 dB/watt should be possible- for a direct radiator speaker, this is high sensitivity.





Woofers could be anything from Dual RS270 (good sensitivity, but then T/S requires large enclosure to achieve bass extension) to SS 26W/8861 (greater Xmax but similar sensitivity at a far higher price) or 8867 (aluminum cone version, smoother and easier to design crossover). The SS 32W/4878 is interesting for more sheer output, but being 4 ohm would have to be wired in series or run with active crossovers, and while 90 dB/driver, this combo with two in series would only be 90 dB (minus baffle step compensation), which makes the 8 ohm 78-88 dB drivers in parallel a higher sensitivity choice (+6 over the individual driver ratings).

Of course, there are big JBL designs which using horns which in total are higher sensitivity, but with the ability to have fairly good inexpensive power these days, that seems like a somewhat pointless path to go down... presuming one doesn't want long term hearing damage. As someone who used to play in front of a Marshall stack in their youth, I know of those risks, and avoided them assiduously.

[Saurav]

What about something like augerpro's No Quarter? I still think about building something like that some day. Maybe with AE TD12Ms, and a suitable waveguide/compression tweeter. Assuming there's a sub involved, I would think that should be a pretty good package in a relatively small form factor.

After years of messing with my own dipoles, and then MMGs that I never got round to modding, I once again have a toddler in the house, so I've got rid of the stereo. I sometimes think of a day in the future when I can have a good stereo again

[Face]

im reading more and more about how waveguides are better suited for ht vs music. what designs out there can compete with high efficient horn systems? we want it loud, not to revealing, and bad ass!

this thread is motivated by my total let down after listening to some fusion tempest. great for ht, not so good for music. that is for rock and metal. guitars sounded very recessed and the vocals were in your face. major let down

This is all you!

[mph33]

This is all you!

and... you can go straight to hell. hifi snob:roll:

[Kevin P]

Ok guys, please knock off the personal attacks or posts will start disappearing.

This is the one built by the guy who designed the DAC I use, and I can assure you it's not "optimized" for rock or metal, but for neutral reproduction of music.

That looks like a "married men need not apply" design. I can see the wife wanting to put curtains over those horns. 8O

[JonMarsh]

this thread is motivated by my total let down after listening to some fusion tempest. great for ht, not so good for music. that is for rock and metal. guitars sounded very recessed and the vocals were in your face. major let down

Sometimes that's just a function of the mix the producer sought and achieved- if a "flat" response speaker does this, then the issue is really the mix, and your desire, perhaps, to have a different mix than originally intended? The trouble with doing that with a speaker design, as opposed to say, an adjustable equalizer, is that all playback will be similarly colored.

[Lex]

I concur with Kevin.

No antagonizing people with intent, and no personal attacks. We clear guys?

[MickRS]

Sometimes that's just a function of the mix the producer sought and achieved- if a "flat" response speaker does this, then the issue is really the mix, and your desire, perhaps, to have a different mix than originally intended? The trouble with doing that with a speaker design, as opposed to say, an adjustable equalizer, is that all playback will be similarly colored.

+1
Isnt this always the issue with sound production. Mixes are made in different studios with different monitors. So producing the exact sound as intended will always be difficult, to say the least. Thus trying to achieve the most 'neutral' sound looks like the best option. And even then it will be a compromise. At this moment I'm listening to some FR speakers. And these have a some really nice pro's like imaging and soundstage, but definately also some cons like not too good linear spl and lack of LF...