5 vs 9 speakers. DIY

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  • crytklmass
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 145

    5 vs 9 speakers. DIY

    Just a quick background. I am building a 130 inch AT curved screen in my basement. I have already built 5 qsc 2150 clones. 5 total: fronts, left, center, right, 2 sides and a pair of sr8101 for rears. (cheaper to buy than diy). I also have 4 1,000 watt 15" subs. Basement has a vinyl floor (I may add a sub floor) and is all cement. I already built a 2x4 frame and insulated. Dry walling next.
    I'm wondering if it's best to keep my 7 ch. qsc system although they are monsters and leave little room for placement. Also qsc are made for digital cinema theaters. (this is for theater use only) They are being powered by my denon 4311 ci which supports up to 11 channels. I was thinking of diy 7, 9, or 11 channel monitor or bookshelf style speakers to allow closer placement, and perhaps better acoustics. I could hang them on the wall or build stands or hang from the ceiling etc. I assume the placement will allow for better immersion into movies and I have have 4 subs for bass. I thought of meniscus kits, something that provides all the drivers and pre built crossover I just need to build cabinets or use flatpacks. Should ,I use waveguides, raal tweeters, neo ribbons or silk domes, etc.there are many monitor kits. My theater room would be surrounded by a cement shelf 42 inches high and 16 inches in deep which surrounds the basement (in case of rear port speakers.

    I'm sure there my be more questions but so far what are you opinions. Positives or negatives. My budget would be around $1,000 or less per speaker, maybe a little more if it's justified and certainly less is ok. Theater size is 18 feet wide, 24 feet long, 10 foot ceilings. however, IF I build a 3rd bedroom my size will change to 14 ft wide and 18 feet deep. (very likely)
    I know there are a lot of great kits from so which could you recommend?

    My favorites have been b&w 800d, Wilson Sophia, klipsch paradigm, monitor platinum, paradigm, Mirage MSi-1 just to name a few. I like the look of the Klipsch THX and M&K THX kits. (appears horn and woofers work for theaters)

    I have read quit a few proven diy designs, from meniscus, madisound and diysoundgroup. Quite a few people stated the seos tempest 12" is the way to go, I considered those along with the statement monitors (im sure how good the ribbon would be compared to waveguide and im worried about being too close to the wall. I only have about 12" behind the speaker and the design Is getting a bit old.

    The problem with the QSC2150 is they are a little bright at times and fatiguing at high volumes, not to mention they are beast which means they stand very close to each other. around 1 foot between my left, center, and right. They were also designed for professional theaters, ie 55 seats, maybe they require QSC digital amps to get the best performance.

    So, if you were going to spend $3,$5,000 on a 7- 9 channel setup. What would be your options and why?

    Thanks a bunch guys.

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    BOB
  • ---k---
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 5204

    #2
    There are lots of options. But, if you are building speakers to go behind a screen, you should build speakers designed to go behind a screen. I suggest these: http://www.divine-audio.com/ht-mains/
    I've heard them and I think they are great. Of course, they are from the same designer as my mains, so I'm biased. You have a very large room, so big speakers are needed. With a sub, I think these will be capable. CJD will hopefully speak up.

    Statements won't work for you behind a screen, because of the open tunnel. I don't know enough about the Seos to say anything.

    I have front high. I'm not convinced they add much yet. I would probably stick to 7.1, which is what the program material is.
    - Ryan

    CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

    Comment

    • crytklmass
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2008
      • 145

      #3
      Im not convinced on height or width either except a few friend swear they hear a difference. Wasn't sure if I was just going to add 2 sides with 4 rears. or 4 sides with 2 rears or try the height/width thing. Maybe just stick with 7 speakers for now. I didn't realize how huge the QSC 2150 were before building them. It takes a dolly to move them, the 15" woofer really don't provide much bass, the mids are ok and the tweeter is ok but nothing super special. They only cost $2,000 to build all 5 with ALL oem parts to I cant complain to much especially if I compared to other brands at the same price but their just too damn big. They would be great for an outdoor theater in the summer. I didn't think the statements would work due to the rear port as you stated. The only good reviews I am reading about so far concerning the SEOS Tempest are from AVS Forum and they seem a little biased but maybe they use better drivers and crossovers. One person said they would be a huge improvement over the QSC for theater, still waiting for his opinion as to WHY. Still looking for more opinions from other diyer's before I spend another $3,000 or so. Those speaker you showed me look pretty nice as well.
      BOB

      Comment

      • ---k---
        Ultra Senior Member
        • Nov 2005
        • 5204

        #4
        Originally posted by crytklmass
        Im not convinced on height or width either except a few friend swear they hear a difference. Wasn't sure if I was just going to add 2 sides with 4 rears. or 4 sides with 2 rears or try the height/width thing. Maybe just stick with 7 speakers for now. I didn't realize how huge the QSC 2150 were before building them. It takes a dolly to move them, the 15" woofer really don't provide much bass, the mids are ok and the tweeter is ok but nothing super special. They only cost $2,000 to build all 5 with ALL oem parts to I cant complain to much especially if I compared to other brands at the same price but their just too damn big. They would be great for an outdoor theater in the summer. I didn't think the statements would work due to the rear port as you stated. The only good reviews I am reading about so far concerning the SEOS Tempest are from AVS Forum and they seem a little biased but maybe they use better drivers and crossovers. One person said they would be a huge improvement over the QSC for theater, still waiting for his opinion as to WHY. Still looking for more opinions from other diyer's before I spend another $3,000 or so. Those speaker you showed me look pretty nice as well.
        People like different things. I've heard Mark Seaton's speakers, GTR Triple 8's and some others that used to be all the rage over at AVS (maybe they still are?). They do some things well, but not other things. Everything is trade-offs. Figuring out what is most important to you is sometimes the most difficult. If you just want it to get loud and it to go boom, maybe the guys at AVS can point you in the right direction. Maybe you just need some EQ to tame your QSC? Room positioning can play a big role in it. Try moving them forward or backwards to improve the bass. Just looking at the photo and not having done the match, I'm guessing the rear wave bounce off the wall and back could be somewhere in that mid bass range you think you're missing. Try toe in / out to work on the brightness. Maybe some wool felt on the sides or foam in the horn? Maybe they need a screen in front of them to knock some of the top end off? Or maybe you're looking for a custom install with ultimate sound quality and are willing to sacrifice a little loudness?

        Schedule a trip over here to Chicago. I'll let you hear mine, or maybe you can hear Chris's. Not saying our's will be the sound you're looking for, but at least you'll have a measuring point. You're not far from Earl Geddes. He might be a real good one to see if you're looking at the Seos and horn style speakers.
        - Ryan

        CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
        CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
        CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

        Comment

        • cjd
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Dec 2004
          • 5570

          #5
          I dont have a lot to add - the feedback has been spot on. However, I have been considering doing a SEOS based pro driver HT design but it has not had a home, and my HT isn't a likely candidate... I'm just not sure how it'll do on budget at this time, would have to do more specific research. However, between this and another thread here recently where the Khans weren't enough I'm even more interested.

          Let me know if you're interested in working with a new design.
          diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

          Comment

          • Darren Salyer
            Junior Member
            • Nov 2011
            • 22

            #6
            I'll be following this.
            I had planned 7 in-khan-neatos based on previous discussions here, and am ready to order the parts to start building. Sent CJD a PM earlier with a couple questions...)
            Now that I'm going AT screen, I'm wondering if the mains referenced above might be better for my L-C-R speakers.... I don't believe they had been developed at the time of our last discussion.

            Comment

            • cjd
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Dec 2004
              • 5570

              #7
              I've had my ht project posted quietly for a while but it only works well in a false wall behind a scream so isn't discussed much. An awesome recent thread on a build though.
              diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio

              Comment

              • Darren Salyer
                Junior Member
                • Nov 2011
                • 22

                #8
                Can you provide a link to the build, please?

                Comment

                • crytklmass
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2008
                  • 145

                  #9
                  The basement is open now which def. provides reverb from the speakers. Trying to decide on just a larger theater or the 3rd bedroom. Ill be using a 130 Seymour AT screen. Im willing to sacrifice loudness for clarity. Your brain fills most of the details anyway. Watching a movie is a bit different than concentrating on music. I called QSC and of course they recommended their amps for proper digital signal processing. Well, that option is OUT. TOO expensive. If I were a real theater charging customer it would be different. Its hard to find the perfect speaker but at least with DIY if you don't like it, you have a chance to sell to a friend or garage sale without losing your butt. I used to own B&W 802D, loved them but they required serious amps to provide a nice soundstage ie, McIntosh 501's. Im NOT spending that kind of cash anymore. I think the QSC are missing the 3d depth soundstage, imaging, vocals are a little grainy and they fatigue at high volume. Sort of like Klipsch horns will fatigue your ears after a while. Maybe acoustic treatment would help but then I have to deal with the huge cabinet size which moves my screen about 2-3 feet closer into the room. (only 18 feet deep without treatment or couches) adding 2 more 2150 as sides, squeezes in another few feet. I didn't consider the H,W,D 38.3" x 30" x 14.5" before I just jumped in. it my first DIY speaker project. Now I have learned to I need to downsize cabinet size and allow for more real estate. I was just too excited to get started. Thanks for the comments
                  BOB

                  Comment

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