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Hey Y'all, I thinking about building a pair of Statements, but would like to hear them if anyone in the Atlanta area has built them. Jim Holtz came down to an Atlanta Audio Society Speakerbuilder meeting many years ago and one of his speakers was a tiny tower with only a ribbon T and probably the TangBang M. It was remarkable, the best speaker I've ever heard, and I commented so in the meeting notes. I suspect this was just before the Statements were designed. So I suspect I will like this design, but it would be great to confirm before embarking on a substantial project like this.
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Jim,
It was in like 2005 or 2006 I think. You had some tiny towers with the Neo Ribbon and probably the tang band, or maybe a smaller silver colored midwoof. You also had some bigger line arrays as I remember. Hard to remember that far back, and I can't find any documentation on the web about it. Rob Cheng might have organized it, he did some of the DIY Atlantas around that time. Just remember how remarkably clear, low distortion and amazing they sounded. I remember at the time thinking these were the best speakers I'd ever heard for midbass on up. It's funny how some things just stay in your head. If it wasn't you, it was somebody with your speakers!Comment
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Jim,
Sorry Don Radick corrected me, it was Jim Griffin at the meeting, not Jim Holtz! And looking at the ATL DIY website which I finally found the system was similar but different, an Aurum Cantus G2si and Jordan Jx92 module, other than that the same! I also forgot I won the budget category with a little Silver Flute/Vifa combo in a PE box. It was actually 2004 after all, quite awhile ago!
Don has built the mini Statements, so I went over to his place in town and we swapped speakers. I've been listening to them, and find the TBs to be a bit too nasally/shouty for my taste. Love the ribbons, but not the price! So much for being made in China being cheap. Which leads me to my current thoughts, the Finalist concept with the Vifa MR that is supposedly good, then for TW the relatively inexpensive RS-28s, or my fallback well loved SEAS 27 TDFC, but I want more oomf than a single RS225, more like the slam of 2x of them like as used in the Statements. Also I want to make floorstanders, stands seem like a waste of space to me. Obviously the xover will have to be modified! Not sure when I'll get to them though, I've got a major home remodel to do this spring...but I've got the itch!Comment
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Hi Bobulator,
Interesting comments that I've not heard before. I've never heard them called "shouty" nor have I ever heard that quality from any speaker Curt has designed crossovers for. Quite the opposite actually. My 1st thought is, check the crossover polarity but Don has had them built for some time and I'm sure he would have mentioned it before.
The 1337's have exceptional clarity and detail but do occasionally have a touch of "metal driver" sound to them. They are extremely revealing and sound best with very good electronics driving them. If you were driving them with a receiver, you might have been hearing some of the receiver sound qualities you've not heard before. I have a tube buffer as part of both of my systems that adds just a hint of smoothness and a bit of analog sound that I find enjoyable that works well. Placement is also important with an open back mid for proper sound quality. You didn't have the mids plugged or the Mini's shoved against a wall or in a cove that cups the sound? That doesn't work with open back designs.
Anyway, The NE149, Revelators and other high end hard cone paper drivers add a natural sound to the mids that metal doesn't have but without any loss of clarity or detail. The only thing the Finalists give up in comparison to the Statements is a little SPL capability and a little bass impact. If you want "big" bass, you'll need a sub with any speaker that has 8" or 10" drivers. Big bass comes with 15" subs.
Good luck!
JimComment
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Jim,
Thanks for the feedback. I think I am exceptionally sensitive to sounds in the upper midrange/presence region, and harmonics from it that seem to be particularly present in metal mid and tweeters. I've never been comfortable with a metal tweeter because of it, and I suspect it is also the reason I have issues with the TB mid in Don's MiniStatements. He said he was going to recheck the xovers, but I think for me it is just my hearing preference. My current main speakers are John Krutke's all metal L18/27 Seas design of a few years ago. When I built them, I couldn't stand the TW, even after padding it down, John asked to test it (wanting to see if there was an inconsistency with the Seas drivers) so I sent it up to him, and he said they tested and sounded fine to him. Eventually I replaced them with my longstanding favorite fabric dome SEAS 27TDFC tweeters, and tamed the midrange way down per his recommendation, and now they sound awesome to me. Don Radicks tested them when I swapped him speakers for his MiniStatements, his charts showed exceptionally low distortion, and a very definite downward slope in frequency response, having a very warm, fat bottom. Just the way I like it! (Speakers too!) I guess it's just my ears. I do miss a little midrange sparkle/warmth/woodieness, which I did hear on a Rob Cheng design at the Atlanta DIY many years ago when I first showed this unit.
Anyway that, plus the hankering for occasional high SPL music with palpable slam (not boom of a subwoofer) is what is getting me back into wanting to build another set of speakers. Your Statements sounded like the ticket, but the upper end sound for me as discussed above has made me pause. I've used several RS woofers in the past, and always very much respected their quality and bang for the buck, and suspect the 2x RS225s used in the full size Statements would deliver what I'm looking for. (I've tried several subs over the years and never felt they integrated well with music. Great for long looud booms, but nor capable of the transient detail necessary for a high fidelity driver used for music. I remember in one of Krutkes "rants" on his blog that he PREFERS drivers with less XMAX, and more diameter, as all else being equal you can move the same amount of air faster that way. I totally agree. So that is why I'm wanting bigger and more drivers than my otherwise phenominal SEAS L18 in my next speaker.
So your Finalist holds much interest to me, except I want all of the "slam" of a Statement (even though I've never heard one!), just from all the posts on the boards about them. As mentioned I prefer a warmer bass, so I'm thinking about adding 3db the easy way by doubling the RS225 drivers! Is this crazy? If I more or less extend the cabinets to the floor to double the interior volume will this work do you think? Has anyone else tried this? (I don't want particularly to go to larger drivers either (although I do have a pair of RS270s around, but their boxes have to be HUGE) as I want to keep the cabinets as slim as possible.Comment
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Bob and Jim -
Sorry for the slow response - I don't get over here very often.
I built the Mini-Statements about 5 years ago, and was very happy with them, but eventually rotated them out due
to space issues in our fairly small living room. Since then, I've been listening to the Maurbacs (MT dual Aura NS6 / Vifa BC25sc06-04) and
now my Galeons (MTM dual SB13 / Vifa BC25sc06-04) - I've got 2 measuring rigs (including an Omnimic) and I know they measure
pretty darn flat. Smooth and balanced, with maybe just a hint of too much treble for some people.
So it was a complete surprise to crank up the Minis with Bob and found that they sounded a bit forward in the mids.
Played with positioning a bit, and even plugged the rear of the mids, but they still sounded a bit unbalanced.
I'm going to pop the crossovers over the holidays and check for mis-wire or something.
Chances are that it's my mistake, since no other Mini Statements owner has complained.Comment
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