Completed Finalist Tower / Sub ...listening impressions

[tommarra]

Finally completed assembling my Finalist + Sub towers. Still need to finish them...

Here are a few pictures...




Now for the sound...oh boy are they an upgrade over the Statement Monitors.

Don't get me wrong the Monitors are good speakers...very good infact....but the finalists are in a different league all together.

The treble is crystal clear... The high hats, cymbals are very very clear and feel as if they are hanging in the air...amazing.


The mid range...oh wow... You can hear every nuance of a singers voice. I was listening to some Bollywood / Indian music that has a lot of chorus and a lot of layered instrumentation consisting of strings , violins, piano, chorus, sitar, harmonium and each instrument stood out separately. A trait which the monitors definitely did not have. That midrange is some of the best I have heard with the finalists. The sound of the stick hitting the snare rim on the drums had the visceral impact to make you sit up an listen.

Finally the bass...in my room they go very deep. I have not heard the subs kick in until now for music (they are crossed over at 30HZ) and I haven't felt anything missing. The benchmark for me in bass is can I hear the vibration of the strings of a bass guitar...and with Finalists I can :-)



For HT the bass doesn't have enough punch...which is very understandable and even B&W 803 I had earlier needed subs for HT applications.

But for me more than the individual components of the sound, it's how everything comes together as a coherent system that shows just how good Jim and Curt are in designing the speakers.

My reference for audio is my Beyerdynamic T1 headphones ($1000) plugged into a DIY B22 active ground headphone amplifier fed by Lavry DA 10 DAC.

While the sound fro Finalists running off a Marantz Receiver is not as good as my reference cans, I am sure with better amplification the sound will only get better.

I had a friend over in the morning who is running B&W 804 for his mains and he walked out of my apartment with the CAD drawings of the Finalists in his hands...on the call with a local cabinet maker :-)


Amazing job Jim and Curt...and thanks for sharing the design with the rest of us.


~nishant

[Carl V]

Now for the sound...oh boy are they an upgrade over the Statement Monitors.

Don't get me wrong the Monitors are good speakers...very good infact....but the finalists are in a different league all together.

The treble is crystal clear... The high hats, cymbals are very very clear and feel as if they are hanging in the air...amazing.


The mid range...oh wow.

Glad you are happy & congrats on the build.

I have not heard the finalists...however i have heard the Statements
in a few forms & the New Philharmonia line...using similar drivers in
those statements. And those drivers & design shine quite well.

Curious about the marked improvements in SQ as you have observed.

We all hear things a little differently. Just curious. Look forward to
your continued thoughts.

[tommarra]

Thanks Carl,


I am not very good at waxing eloquent about sound quality...but I will try :-$

The difference between Statement Monitors and the Finalist is that Finalists are wife approved

While my wife always said that the monitors were no match to B&W PM1s I had earlier, on the first listen she agreed that the Finalist are much better than Monitors and the B&Ws

If someone not into good sound is able to discern te difference...that for me is the hallmark of a better speaker :-)


More specifically for me the Dayton tweeter in Finalists is better at reproducing the highs than the Fountek ribbon in the monitors.

Similarly the mid presentation of the Vifa mid makes you feel as if you are there with the musicians...I think people call it sound stage. It's much better on the Finalists than the Monitors.

And then the RS 225 in 33 liters move much more air than the RS 180 in the monitor, so the bass lines have more punch and clarity without muddling or boom.

Don't get me wrong the Monitors are very good speakers but for a similar form factor I don't see why anyone would now build Monitors over the Finalists.

[Jim Holtz]

Hi nishant,

Thank you for an awesome review! Our design goal with The Finalists was to achieve the best possible midrange that portrayed a natural presentation of the original performance at an affordable price. The NE149 is a superb driver that performs well above it's selling price and compares favorably to the much more expensive Revelators, IMHO. The RS28F and RS225 are proven performers that also provide sound quality well beyond their cost.

Of course the best performing drivers in the world will never reach their potential unless there's a crossover wizard like Curt that can bring it all together. He did a superb job (again) designing a crossover that seamlessly blends the drivers together in a smooth, coherent presentation that allows the listener to become immersed in the performance. :T

I'm really pleased that you're enjoying The Finalists as much as I do. BTW, Curt has your CAD drawing for the cabinet design and will have it posted soon. I've been extremely busy the last few weeks and simply spaced it off. Thank you for sharing your efforts!

Jim

[tommarra]

Hi nishant,

Thank you for an awesome review! Our design goal with The Finalists was to achieve the best possible midrange that portrayed a natural presentation of the original performance at an affordable price. The NE149 is a superb driver that performs well above it's selling price and compares favorably to the much more expensive Revelators, IMHO. The RS28F and RS225 are proven performers that also provide sound quality well beyond their cost.


Jim

All thanks to you and Curt! :T The finalist design is truly amazing.


On a related note. I have Statement Center Channel in my HT system - and for those who are planning to build a system comprising of Statement Monitors (Mains) + Statement CC, I have found that the CC integrates much better with the finalists than the monitors.

When I had Monitors as the mains, I was always twiddling the dialog /dB output of the Center Channel, because the dialog would not be audible and be very muddled. With Finalist, there is no problem in the voice in a 5.1 setup. The dialogs are crystal clear, and the surround system is amazing.

[randyc1]

All these comments about Monitors vs Finalist, different league ? And about better integration ,
Just lends me to believe that "maybe" something was OFF on your monitors ???

[tommarra]

All these comments about Monitors vs Finalist, different league ? And about better integration ,
Just lends me to believe that "maybe" something was OFF on your monitors ???

Point taken, however I hope I did not mess up the Monitors (still need them for surround duties)

The Monitors just like my Finalists were built with a lot of care, checking and re-checking the cabinet dimensions, port length, drivers, cross-overs, foam placement etc. Hence, I am very confident that there was no error in the design. (EDIT: Although they are the near-wall configuration, placed only 13 inches form the wall)

Also note, I am comparing a very good speaker (Monitors) with excellent speakers (Finalists). Nowhere do I want to imply that Monitors are bad, on the contrary, they are very good and much better than several other commercial speakers I have owned. Its just that for very similar form factor, ease of placement, and cost, the performance to price ratio on Finalists is much higher (again subjective based on sample size of one i.e. me :-)

To my ears and in my living room there is a HUGE difference between the Monitors and Finalist.

I haven't heard the Full size statements, but I think Jim himself is using the Finalists as his reference speakers from music over the Statements...and from forum posts by several others I believe that the Monitors are nowhere close to Full Statements in performance.


Having said that...sound is subjective and open to personal taste..maybe the presentation characteristics that I have come to love in the Finalists, others may hate.

[tommarra]

Veneering / Staining / changing from Raw MDF to Black wood look

Okay, I have had the Finalists for a while now and after hours of listening, it is time to finish them! (I know I was so mesmerized by the sound that I found it hard to take apart for finishing)


I am a total newbie and this will be my first attempt at doing this so any help/ reference/ links will be greatly appreciated.

I am looking to veneer them and stain / dye them black.

What kind of wood is best that will easily take the black color and what do I need to do in order to get black color on the veneer.


Reading the internet I am planning the following approach


Use Flat cut oak veneer e.g. http://www.oakwoodveneer.com/oak-ven...t-cut-red.html

Treat it with Minwax Pre-stain wood conditioner

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/preparation/minwax-prestain-wood-conditioner

Minwax Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner - Prepare Wood for Staining | Minwax

And after 60 minutes use Minwax wood finish Ebony to stain the veneer

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/stains-color-guide/

Apply a second coat after 6 hours


Finally use Minwac polyurethane satin clear coat to finish off.

Any better approach or reason why this is not a good idea?

I am planning to test all of this on a small piece before experimenting on my speakers..which are currently in raw MDF.

[Finleyville]

I am glad you are enjoying your Finalists! I love mine. I hope your finished results turn out as you wish!

[TEK]

First, test on some scrap pices before starting out. I recently used black lack to get my sub's black on veneer. I used a foam roller and get it even and black using that. I have recently did some testng. One thing I tested was to not use a roller but instead try to apply it using a polishing clot. That did not work out, it would not cover in a decent way. I wonder if black is a bit special, as you wont it to cover (more like paint) and not just stain the veneer (or at least I wanted that).

But, as I said - try it on some scrap pices. After applying the veneer you will probably have some leftovers. Fasted that on some scap pices and start trating it as you would treat your speeaker.

[Carl V]

Consider Black Wood Dye....trans tint.
Your plan looks good, but Blotchy stain can still
be a PITA. Tinting/dye can produce you deep black
with nice grain and sheen

[tommarra]

Thanks every one for the reply...I have another problem now... At my wife's orders :-D I had to cover them with cheapo iron on vinyl.

Now I scraped off the vinyl but I have some hot glue stuck on the MDF board :-(

What is a good way to get rid of the iron on glue? Should I just sand it with 80 grit sand paper?

[TEK]

8O Dont know the answare to your question, but then afain - no part of the above post is making any sense to me what-so-ever. You have actually taken off the veneer?

Oh, wait... Do you mean that you have temporally covered them with vinyl, and now are preparing the surface to add veneer?
(I thought a while that you had removed the veneer and should apply the cheap vinyl...)

[tommarra]

:-) sorry if I didn't make sense...

I had covered them with cheap iron on veneer...

Now I want to put nice oak veneer on the speakers. I peeled off the vinyl using hand dryer but that left some glue on the MDF.

What is a good way to get rid of the glue that is still stuck on the cabinets? Just sand it off?

Also do I need to prep the MDF by sanding before I apply paper backed veneer?

[Silver1omo]

Sanding will very likely just clog the sandpaper. A scraper or hand plane would work better.

[tommarra]

Got it. Thanks Silver1omo