Linkwitz Pre Amp modification

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  • oneoldude
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2005
    • 203

    Linkwitz Pre Amp modification

    AN AS-BUILT SCHEMATIC A BIT DIFFERENT FROM THIS ONE CAN BE FOUND AT POST #12 BELOW. SUGGESTIONS ARE STILL WELCOME.

    This is a major edit of the original post. I will bump it below to hopefully get it going.

    After thinking about it I decided to go to the mountain and use the Linkwitz circuit for my measurement mic preamp, but with a couple changes. Will you all please check me out?

    The Linkwitz circuit is designed for capsules that are cut for greater headroom. The capsules are then referenced from ground to V-.

    Trouble is that the WM61A capsule is obsolete and I understand that the ones available for purchase are often not genuine. But there are WM6X series capsules that cannot be modified and they are available and cheap. So I thought why not design the circuit so that it can handle uncut as well as cut capsules. My capsules are all uncut but I may try out cut ones in the future.

    So, I figured a switch could be used to switch the capsule reference from "ground to V-" to "ground to V+". That change is on the schema below.

    By putting all the front end stuff in an XLR connector, a simple switch of mics on the end of the cable and a flip of the preamp switch can accommodate a variety of capsules and modes of operation.

    The Linkwitz circuit has a gain of about 10 dB. The circuit I show is a clone of the Linkwitz version. But R3 could be replaced with switched resistors and provide a gain variation of 10, 20, 30 and 40 dB. At higher gains the effective R3 starts to get pretty small. Am I in trouble there? Would it be smarter to only have two levels of gain, like 10 dB and 20 dB? Or is a fixed 10 dB just fine?

    I also decided to throw in a "floating capsule" front end too. The idea comes from the Naint Studio site (look under "Schematics" for "basic" and under "The 'Linkwitz' mod") here: http://naiant.com/about/microphonedesign.html

    The output of the preamp will go to line-in of a sound card (M-Audio Transit in my case).

    The resistances in the circuit were chosen by Linkwitz to keep noise down. Is there any good reason to change them? I understand uncut capsules like an input impedance of about 20k or higher.

    And last, how long a cable can can these front ends push signal down to the preamp before the high frequencies begin to be cut? I have seen home theatre mics with cable lengths of 20 feet or more. How far can I go with mic cable? Linkwitz suggests less than 30 ft with a cut capsule. What about a stock capsule or a floater? I could figure it out if I knew the output impedance of the capsules in each mode of operation. But I don't.

    What have I missed?

    Of course a simple one BJT or one FET buffer for each of the front ends would allow longer cables. But I do not know how to design them. So any ideas are welcome. Probably BJT versions are better cause no fiddling is necessary to make them work (and I have 2N5210/2N5087s on hand). Ideas?

    BTW, I call this the Heresy Project because it is unbalanced from alpha to omega and it incorporates a floating capsule as one of the front ends. Both of these options are considered heresy and an abomination by certain folks at certain forums that cater to the Pro Audio crowd.

    Thank you all for whatever help you are able to give.

    Here is the circuit:

    Last edited by oneoldude; 31 July 2013, 13:48 Wednesday.
    oneoldude :later:
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying
  • JonMarsh
    Mad Max Moderator
    • Aug 2000
    • 15297

    #2
    Been extremely busy- will look at this soon, but might be as late as next weekend when I'm in Austria on business. GF going into hip replacement surgery Wednesday, and I'm leaving Thursday.
    the AudioWorx
    Natalie P
    M8ta
    Modula Neo DCC
    Modula MT XE
    Modula Xtreme
    Isiris
    Wavecor Ardent

    SMJ
    Minerva Monitor
    Calliope
    Ardent D

    In Development...
    Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
    Obi-Wan
    Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
    Modula PWB
    Calliope CC Supreme
    Natalie P Ultra
    Natalie P Supreme
    Janus BP1 Sub


    Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
    Just ask Mr. Ohm....

    Comment

    • oneoldude
      Senior Member
      • Apr 2005
      • 203

      #3
      Good luck with the operation!
      oneoldude :later:
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying

      Comment

      • BobEllis
        Super Senior Member
        • Dec 2005
        • 1609

        #4
        Ditto. Pending hip replacement makes your hiking adventure even more impressive.

        Comment

        • oneoldude
          Senior Member
          • Apr 2005
          • 203

          #5
          This is a bump because the first post in this thread has changed significantly.
          oneoldude :later:
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
          "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying

          Comment

          • JonMarsh
            Mad Max Moderator
            • Aug 2000
            • 15297

            #6
            Originally posted by oneoldude
            This is a bump because the first post in this thread has changed significantly.
            Thanks- will review! We're really scrambling right now between her operation (short notice, 4 month early due to a cancellation by someone else) and my very short notice travel- just got the last of the hotel reservations back today!
            the AudioWorx
            Natalie P
            M8ta
            Modula Neo DCC
            Modula MT XE
            Modula Xtreme
            Isiris
            Wavecor Ardent

            SMJ
            Minerva Monitor
            Calliope
            Ardent D

            In Development...
            Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
            Obi-Wan
            Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
            Modula PWB
            Calliope CC Supreme
            Natalie P Ultra
            Natalie P Supreme
            Janus BP1 Sub


            Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
            Just ask Mr. Ohm....

            Comment

            • JonMarsh
              Mad Max Moderator
              • Aug 2000
              • 15297

              #7
              Originally posted by BobEllis
              Ditto. Pending hip replacement makes your hiking adventure even more impressive.
              We're both kind of agreed that the next vacation won't be 120 miles of hiking... :W believe me, that's a lot of distance on your own two feet for a couple of people that haven't seen 60 for a while! But their was a certain sense of accomplishment at the end...
              the AudioWorx
              Natalie P
              M8ta
              Modula Neo DCC
              Modula MT XE
              Modula Xtreme
              Isiris
              Wavecor Ardent

              SMJ
              Minerva Monitor
              Calliope
              Ardent D

              In Development...
              Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
              Obi-Wan
              Saint-Saƫns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
              Modula PWB
              Calliope CC Supreme
              Natalie P Ultra
              Natalie P Supreme
              Janus BP1 Sub


              Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
              Just ask Mr. Ohm....

              Comment

              • oneoldude
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2005
                • 203

                #8
                Congratulation on your successful effort.

                How long did it take to do 120 miles?
                oneoldude :later:
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying

                Comment

                • BobEllis
                  Super Senior Member
                  • Dec 2005
                  • 1609

                  #9
                  Jon is more expert than I, but some thoughts while he is reviewing.

                  At 10K input impedance, a 1 uf film cap is plenty. For exmple, http://www.mouser.com/Search/Product...-MKT1817510064. Digikey has similar. You can also go with a 4.7 uf cap if you're really worried about that bottom end. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...7ixBYq5ZYks%3d

                  Same thought on your output caps. If the input of the next stage is reasonably high impedance, 1 uf should be enough. Of course you can parallel multiples.

                  Be sure C5 and C6 are as close to the power pins on the chip as possible with minimal leads to ground. I apologize if you knew this but many beginners aren't aware of the importance of bypass cap proximity to opamps. It gets more important as the opamp gets faster.

                  Speaking of which, I tend to prefer FET input opamps, just because the input current on BJT inputs makes it a little harder to keep DC offset in check. Not an issue with your capacitor coupled design, though. Is the 833 a place holder or do you intend to use it? It's obsolescent, but still usable. Linkwitz uses OPA2134 a lot, if I use opamps that's what I use. If you're buying for this application, get the single version, OPA134 and save the trouble of grounding the inputs on the unused half. I haven't tried any of the newer super fast chips because my active crossover boards use through hole caps for power supply bypass. That results in a relatively long path to ground which can be trouble (instability) for the fast guys. Not intending to start a chip war, but I think the OPA2134 sounds cleaner than an NE5532 in my crossovers. Cleaner, loses some fuzz.

                  Comment

                  • oneoldude
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2005
                    • 203

                    #10
                    BobEllis,

                    Thanks for the input.

                    With the lack of response to this thread it makes me think that DIY is on its last legs or already dead. Shame.

                    In any event, I am using what I have on hand and I will not be listening to any of it. This is for speaker measurement only. The caps are electrically larger than the minimum necessary but they are physically very small and what I have. I could use smaller value film caps that are way, way physically larger. But I don't see the point. Is there one?

                    Linkwitz says that if the batteries are within an inch or two of the circuit, no bypass caps are necessary. That will be the case here but I used some anyway and some electrolytics too. The bypass caps are at most .7" from the pins. Also, the 833 is internally compensated to be stable at any closed loop gain. Here is a pic of my prototype. I could move the bypass caps closer to the chip, but is it really necessary?

                    Thanks for reminding me to kill off the second amp. I forgot to do that.

                    Thanks again.

                    Last edited by oneoldude; 22 July 2013, 18:05 Monday.
                    oneoldude :later:
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying

                    Comment

                    • BobEllis
                      Super Senior Member
                      • Dec 2005
                      • 1609

                      #11
                      Of course, use parts bin parts. Glad to see someone else building experiments on perf board.

                      I forgot to ground the unused half once, and it went crazy and the noise got into the side I was using.

                      If you get funny behavior like oscillations, move them or add another set close to the chip.

                      Comment

                      • oneoldude
                        Senior Member
                        • Apr 2005
                        • 203

                        #12
                        OK,

                        I guess its time to put this thread to bed.

                        FWIW, the pic below is a schematic of my as-built of the circuit in question. It is nothing more than the Linkwitz circuit with switchable capsule bias and trimmer set gain. It should be a decent DIY competitor to the LINEARX M-31 shown here:



                        Here it is:

                        oneoldude :later:
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
                        ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying

                        Comment

                        • BobEllis
                          Super Senior Member
                          • Dec 2005
                          • 1609

                          #13
                          So are you happy with it?

                          Comment

                          • oneoldude
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2005
                            • 203

                            #14
                            Not yet fully wrung out. I have a couple cut and uncut MICs to finish then I will run a battery of tests and attempt calibrating new MICs against a calibrated WM61A. When done I will have a much better feel for it.

                            Also, when done I may do a full wrap up including wand design, capsule choice, cut vs uncut capsules and preamp setup as well as an easy DIY wand holder. If it works out really well I may even do a PC board. It will be a while I guess.
                            oneoldude :later:
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet" - Damon Runyon
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                            "De Gustibus Non Disputandum Est" (There is no disputing taste) - Ancient Roman Saying

                            Comment

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