Opinions wanted on 2way vs. 3way ( in my situation)

[Mr.Ed]

Right now I have a pair of Selah Audio SSR's that I really like. They consist of a Scanspeak 7" Revelator and a Fountek ribbon. They are close to the wall. My listening distance is right about 8' from the speaker against the other wall. I have been considering a new project using the same drivers but adding a 4" Revelator midrange. This is mostly for music listening. I know that the implementation is important and this could be very subjective, but would the 3way give me that much more than I have now. And would my listening distance even allow proper summing of the drivers?
I have most of the drivers and for aesthetic reasons I do not want to use other drivers.
Looking for opinions. Thanks.
-Ed

[JonMarsh]

:roll: There are some minor resonances in the 7" revelator response that you can see as bobbles on the impedance curve, which going three way could theoretically allow you to improve/bypass. BUT, the SS 12M/4361G has issues in that same area! (800-2 kHz).

Even the ILluminator 12MU/8731T-00 has a suspicious impedance peak at about 1300 Hz, and some bobbles in the response, but looks easier to work with to me. But both mids are pricey drivers. And don't talk to me about the 15M/4531- just look at the impedance bump at 800-900, and the response bump above 1 kHz!

Now, the sleeper in this whole line up is the 12W/8524G- not as low inductance, but a pretty much wrinkle free impedance curve, and very manageable response to 3 kHz.



Oh, and it's just $65. The only obstacle to doing a nice three way, is that crossover cost for three ways isn't cheap, no matter how inexpensive the driver!

Your concerns with regards to listening distance are valid, but if you go with small drivers and tight spacing, even 4-5 feet may be far enough. Plan on up against the wall ONLY, and measure in that position.

Just my 0.02, YMMV, all the usual disclaimers. And for fun, my tweeter suggestion is the D2608/9130; best $80 you can spend on a tweeter that costs under $213 (ILluminator D3004/6600 Air Circ).

[Mr.Ed]

Thanks Jon. Valid points to think about.
Please excuse my ignorance but I've heard that the Rev's are easy to work with, would this be a case of 'degrees of audibility' or would these be major artifacts?
-Ed

[Face]

These also measure well and are very easy to work with: http://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com...idrange-8-ohm/

[JonMarsh]

Yes, Face the 10F/8424 is even nicer, for a bit more money. Thanks for the heads up, don't know why I forgot that one...



With regards to the midwoofer or midrange artifacts, this is energy storage and smearing of transients- if you've ever listened for a while to a speaker like the Quad 57 ESL which has none of that, then the audibility in a conventional speaker may be higher to you. If you've only listened to conventional two ways at length, well, to some extent, it's a matter of degree, isn't it? Of course, some two way systems minimize that by driver selection, crossover point, etc. When you're talking about two ways in a certain price range, there's a certain amount of "lateral" tradeoffs that can be made, depending on your preference. The overall network design is harder to go for a good three way, but it really is possible to improve the midrange- though a good two way with a midrange like driver can work well, it just won't kick much butt on the bottom end.

For example, I've been playing around with active DSP with a two way built just with the Illuminator aluminum 7" and a Transducer Labs ceramic tweeter with a waveguide. Though the woofer is expensive, the crossover is fairly simple- much more so than a three way, and the sound is pretty good in the mids. Augment it with a sub, then you've got a three way system by a different path.

But you're focused on SS drivers, preferably the Revelators, so that's a different cup of tea. My notion of a budget state of the art midrange is what the 1337s driver used in the Statements, or these new SS Discovery drivers.

[Mr.Ed]

Thanks again for the info Jon.
I feel that the SSR's I have sound good in the midrange and I don't feel that they give up anything in the bottom end, especially the music I listen to and the level of my listening (could be my lack of hearing anything better). But I just keep wondering how much better it would be with a dedicated mid. Would it really 'clean' up the artifacts enough to warrant the change.
Of course I could just use it as an excuse to build something new.
I'm looking forward to seeing what you think of your two way vs. your new three way when it's complete.
-Ed

[JonMarsh]

Another idea: grab a couple of your favorite CD's and go find a dealer with a good high end three way, like an Avalon Indra or Eidelon. It would give you a subjective reference point that might be useful.

[Carl V]

maybe talk with Rick Craig....he knows the SSR design
and he has done Variations with those drivers....
He's done Center Channels with those drivers.

have you thought about his TRT...a 2 1/2 way
so BSC is accomplished mostly with the lower driver
where uses an 8ohm lower bass driver. Different tweeter
but it sounds quite good.

good luck

[Mr.Ed]

What I was thinking (rather optimistically I'm sure), is to jump into design with this project. I was going to do a two way until I found Rick's SSR, so I figure I'll wade into the deep end. From what I've read the Scanspeaks are easier to work with (in my favor), and I don't want BSC (near wall) so I'm willing to give it a shot. Worse comes to worse it sounds bad and I pack up the drivers and ship them to Rick but hopefully I learn a lot in the process. That's the plan anyway.
-Ed

[Mr.Ed]

OK another possible senario. Keep the SS and the Fountek and augment the bottom end with a pair of Exodus Anarchy's on each side (similar to what Jon mentioned about adding a sub). Have them take the range from 35 - 100? Or something along those lines. Would this be a better route than trying to add a mid btween the SS and Fountek?
-Ed

[JonMarsh]

Well, it would be simpler and offloading the SS on the bottom will lower the IM and give more clarity to the midrange.

I have a system design on the back burner called the Nascent that was intended to be a two step solution for similar reasons- start with Zaph's aluminum cone midrange with the D2608/9130 on treble in an MTM, then add a bass module with 1 or two 8" revelator aluminum woofers.

Now I'm thinking about turning that design, with only one mid, into a compact cabinet three way, maybe using the Transducer Labs tweeter instead (I've got bunches of them...

[Carl V]

OK another possible senario. Keep the SS and the Fountek and augment the bottom end with a pair of Exodus Anarchy's on each side (similar to what Jon mentioned about adding a sub). Have them take the range from 35 - 100? Or something along those lines. Would this be a better route than trying to add a mid btween the SS and Fountek?
-Ed

Actually that is a very workable solution.
Rick did just that for a guy in DFW area.
Sealed SSR sitting atop two Anarchy drivers
driven by an O audio plate amp. Used the 1ft^3
PE box.
I believe the guy posts on AC under Caccophnix

[Mr.Ed]

Thanks for the replies. I think for now at least this is my direction. If I don't crash and burn too badly I may eventually go a standard three-way route.
But at the speed I work that is a long way away.
-Ed