aerial lr5 clone?

[mph33]

this design is awesome... I just can't see myself spending $9000 on these speakers though. has anyone tried to clone this design?

[cjd]

Uh. What's awesome about it that's unique and makes it worth trying to clone, vs one of the many other superb TMWW designs out there?

[CADman_ks]

Uh. What's awesome about it that's unique and makes it worth trying to clone, vs one of the many other superb TMWW designs out there?

By gawd, I'll tell ya what makes them worth $9large, it's the cabs. Here's the description from there homepage:

Cabinet: Ultra-high density minimum resonance enclosure
Extensive interlocked bracing. Tongue and groove joints
Mirror-imaged matched pairs in architectural veneers

Now, anyone, who knows anything about speakers, knows that the most important characteristic of good sounding speakers is number 3, "mirror-imaged matched pairs in architectural veneers".

I knew there was a reason that I worked so hard to get my Ocho's mirror-imaged matched...

Just funnin' with ya'll...

They do look like they would have to be awfully good sounding to be worth $9K. The specs don't really look all that good to me for speakers that expensive, but what do I know? I just build 'em myself, and save the rest...

[Hank]

Naw, I think the key to the price is:
"Extensive interlocked bracing."
And furthermore:
"Tongue and groove joints" THAT, my friends, is over-the-top cabinetry!
Why didn't I think about T&G all those years of building speakers? Stupid me :banghead:
:rofl:

[Hdale85]

Looks like off the shelf drivers as well, The woofers look like usher or something. I'd just stick to one of the RS TMWW's or something similar as you'll likely be on par performance wise at the very least possibly even better.

[mph33]

Looks like off the shelf drivers as well, The woofers look like usher or something. I'd just stick to one of the RS TMWW's or something similar as you'll likely be on par performance wise at the very least possibly even better.

the drivers are all scan... do you have a recommendation for one of your designs? my budget is $1500 for the mains. room isn't very big but it has openings from the front and back to the dinning room and hallway. l listen to mostly metal and orchestra. will use these for ht aswell. I like the highs to be forward but not with extreme detail. I also like good bass response. a sub will be in the mix aswell. probablly an F20

[cjd]

Garnacha might for the bill.I know they get that kind of use now. Sealed if always using a sub.

Lots of other options too.

I'm still curious what makes you call them awesome. Even if not a plain clone that can help directbtou to existing designs.

[craigk]

answers like the ones aboe are exactly why this board is dead. lets see, maybe we should start with cnc cut cab's that weigh 105 lbs each and are designed where all panels and braces interlock. bass and mid drivers drivers that are custom made by danish sound tech, that the owner of aerial designed,( grad from MIT by the way), and a tweeter custom made by MB quart. the owner was also one of the leading designers for a/d/s for about 11 years. the woofers and mids have some of hte lowest destortion i have seen measured in the range they were designed to operate in. the tweeter is dead flat to about 23000. the list goes on ... i agree the opening staement might not be a good question. but people on this board act like a 9000.00 speaker just is a waste of money. i have been to numerous diy shows, have 5 pair of diy speakers in my house right now, and have figured out a few things about diy. up to about 5000 - 6000 dollars the diy community can more than hold its own. when it comes to truely high end speakers i have not heard any that can compete. there is nothing i have heard that can hang with the aerials mentioned above.

[cjd]

Answers like the ones aboe are exactly why this board is dead. Let's see, maybe we should start with cnc cut cabs that weigh 105 lbs each and are designed where all panels and braces interlock. Bass and mid drivers drivers that are custom made by danish sound tech, that the owner of aerial designed, (grad from MIT by the way), and a tweeter custom made by MB quart. The owner was also one of the leading designers for a/d/s for about 11 years. The woofers and mids have some of the lowest distortion I have seen measured in the range they were designed to operate in. The tweeter is dead flat to about 23000. The list goes on ... I agree the opening statement might not be a good question, But people on this board act like a 9000.00 speaker just is a waste of money. I have been to numerous diy shows, have 5 pair of diy speakers in my house right now, and have figured out a few things about diy. Up to about 5000 - 6000 dollars the diy community can more than hold its own. When it comes to truly high end speakers I have not heard any that can compete. There is nothing I have heard that can hang with the aerials mentioned above.

I think I got what you said - tough to read without proper capitalization, etc. I had to fix it to figure it out.

My answer was serious - what makes them awesome? In this case, you seem to provide one tidbit about distortion, and another about tweeter response; care to share the info or source?

The things you mention here are NOT things that prevent a DIY match; Component quality and construction technique we can match; you trade dollars for time on construction.

And if they truly are in a league of their own, cloning them is no guarantee of success.

As for your closing comment, BS. But most DIY shows don't have many that stretch that far, to be sure, and I'd bet a lot of them have none at all.

C

[craigk]

I wish you lived close enough to where you could bring any pair of speakers from the DIY community and put them in my system and listen. my system consist of Eastsound cd-5 cd player that has been highly mod'ed, Spectral DMC-15 preamp, and either Jeff Rowland mono 1s, or Spectral DMA 150. Then put my Focal Utopia Novas in and listen. I have never listened to anything that even comes close, and the Novas are, by far, not even close to the best design I have ever heard. It would be very hard to design a clone for a speaker that has drivers that are custom made for that specific speaker (the aerial.) The mids are very flat to 7000 and roll off almost naturally second order on the yop end. Woofers are custom 9 inch drivers with 2 inch voice coils. You can do a search on the web, most of my info comes from a couple reviews from the old days when I sub'd to magazines. I have never owned these speakers, but I have listened to them and they are very nice. I listened to some of the newer "T" series that use mostly off the shelf speakers and they are still great speakers, and would be much easier to clone if you were going in that diresction. Most of the DIY'ers just do not have the ability to have drivers made to the thier spec's, or the acess to many of the cab materials and construction techniques, or test facilities. Despite some of the high end trash that comes out, and i will agree there is plenty of 25,000.00 plus junk speakers out there, but there are some designs that just are "right." There are some very smart people out there designing speakers, with very deep pockets. :T

[Hank]

answers like the ones aboe are exactly why this board is dead. lets see, maybe we should start with cnc cut cab's that weigh 105 lbs each and are designed where all panels and braces interlock.

Well, Craig, if this board is dead, why are you wasting your precious, superior knowledge time here? BTW, many DIY-ers use dadoed and rabbited interlocking joints in our cabinetry. I have personally attended several "high end" audio shows and several high end dealers and listened to many multi-thousand dollar speakers, and a few sounded awesome, but in my experience the level of awesomeness doesn't track 1:1 to price tag.

[craigk]

I have never claimed to have "superior kowledge" about anything, but I have listened to the Aerials being ask about in person. I can also read, and then post information on a speaker before I decide to trash it without having any idea of how that speaker actually sounds.

I guess the reason i am still here is there are still some people that post information on this site that is worth reading. Also, since it is my time, i guess i can waste it any way i want to.

I am sure you have listened to systems with "multi-thousand dollar speakers" and I am sure that you did not like some. That does not mean there are not good sounding high dollar speakers out there. I do not care for the sound of most Thiels, but that does not mean that Thiel does not make a good speaker. It means that I do not like the sound, and nothing else. I have yet to hear any speakers in the true high end range, Avalon, Hansen, Gryphon, etc., that i would not be happy with. I am not looking for "awesome," I kind of like accurate, and musical. Most "awesome" speakers have something wrong. That is why when you listen to a speaker and say "awesome," you might want to take a break and come back and listen some more. It is the speaker that sucks you in after listening, and you realize everything just works together, that you want to take home.

There are some DIY'ers that can make great cab's, I was at the Dayton, Ohio show and there were at least 8 - 10 pair of truely well made, good looking speakers. Few DIY'ers have the skill or equipment to dovetail, rabbit, or half blind rabbit. It takes practice and real skill to get panels and joints to line up perfectly. A large number of DIY cab's I have looked at did not even use biscuits. It is just hard to compete with the precision of a CNC machine and the bonding agents and materials that the consumer market can not acess.

You are right when it comes to amount spent and return. It is just like anything else, when you get to the true high end of anything, speakers, cars, guns, etc. the cost for slight improvement becomes outrageously expensive. You just have to decide what price you are willing to pay for "X" amount of performance. :T

[NPE]

Then put my Focal Utopia Novas in and listen. I have never listened to anything that even comes close, and the Novas are, by far, not even close to the best design I have ever heard.

Ignoring the fact that this is subjective... What DIY speakers have you had in your room to compare to the Novas, and how did they end up coming short?

What are the best designs you've heard to which the Novas don't even come close to?

A large number of DIY cab's I have looked at did not even use biscuits.

Can you elaborate on this? What does it matter if they use biscuits or not?

Few DIY'ers have the skill or equipment to dovetail, rabbit, or half blind rabbit.

Can you elaborate here too? Do you believe that under blind conditions you could tell the difference between speakers using any of those joints vs another simply glued together? If not, how is that relevant? I don't think I'm grasping your point here...

It is just hard to compete with the precision of a CNC machine and the bonding agents and materials that the consumer market can not acess.

Are you saying that 'consumer market' wood glue isn't adequate and that it affects the performance of a speaker?

Same for a CNC machine, in which way does a DIYer come up short vs a CNC machine? I guess for some designs where the design calls for a curved baffle or similar sure, but most designs don't require them, so most can easily do without a CNC machine... And in what makes a good/bad speaker, I seriously doubt that the limiting factor is "CNC-required" 'technology'... For instance, those Aerials which you've described as amazing seem to use straight cuts, so it would be an example where even using a CNC machine would make absolutely no difference in the end, compared to a proficient DIYer...

[NPE]

craigk: So correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you're saying that basically, or at least that I think that you said That DIY beats mostly any commercial speaker buck for buck, except the ultra high end where only a few have the funds, design capabilities, time, access to custom drivers/manuracturers to build drivers (for instance) exactly to their specs, etc., to create a truly top of the line design. In this case, DIY ends up short, and just won't ever (or do not at least for now), compare to some of the best commercial designs out there? Btw, which would these designs be?

with very deep pockets.

Just a note, I really doubt many speakers designers are given that much free reign and huge sums of money (and told to go wild) to build simply the best speaker out there... I mean, for companies, what matter the most is profit. There's not a huge amount of profit to make in ultra high end speakers, and I just don't see a company throw out millions and millions to get the best possible sound. Those 'huge' flagship speakers, although I must admit I have no real idea how much they cost in R&D, but I would be extremely surprised if you learned the exact amount and wasn't amazed on how little $$$ the speaker engineers had to play with...

[Johnloudb]

It is just hard to compete with the precision of a CNC machine and the bonding agents and materials that the consumer market can not acess.

I've seen a number of DIYers, including myself, have CNC work done for their speakers. I've also seen very experienced, knowledgeable DIYers here using superior bonding agents.

Yeah, I've heard all kinds of high end systems. Just last month while on vacation I heard a system in the $80,000 range, speakers were $28,000. The equipment was designed by very highly regarded designers who've been around a long time. And you know what, it sounded really good. It imaged really well, but the highs sounded bright, and I still preferred my own less expensive system, in my listening room.

Yeah, manufacturers of audio equipment can do a lot of things. But just because they can doesn't mean they should. :W They all have their "ideas" on how to get good sound, including Thiel who's speakers I've really liked, and owned in the past. Audio is very subjective.

I'd argue that a knowledgeable DIYer can build a speaker that suits his needs better than any manufacturer, just because he can design to his own personal preferences. I don't think your argument that DIYers don't have access to such and such, or have the skill, or whatever, holds any water.

In fact manufactures are hampered by the fact they have to make a profit and hit a certain price point. They have to appeal to a specific market as well. I see all kinds of very inventive and unique ideas out here in DIY land!!!

John

[craigk]

i agree, and said that there are many people taking advantage of certain things. let me ask, in the DIY world how many people do you know that have actually had cab's cut using a CNC ? it is just not cost effective in most cases to pay a machinist to either program or manually run a machine for one small project like a speaker cab. what do you think the percentage woud be of all the DIY'ers that have used CNC vs not ? i would say less than 1 percent. i worked in the aircraft industry for 13 years, mostly in the composite side of manufacturing. there are bonding compounds out there the general public can not purchase. there are some good products on the market, but there are bonding material designed for low resonance and so strong the material around the bond will break before the bond. yeah, i know that if you glue wood right this will also happen, but most peple are using MDF of some type and this is not so true in that case.

becasue you thought the system sounded bright might just mean you like your sound with less top end. the comment about "just because manufacturers can do something does not mean they should," then you turn around and say that a DIY'er can design a system for his own personal preference. i am confused ??? what is the difference between you thinking you are right and the manufacturer thinking what he is doing is right. i wonder how that system would have sounded in your listening room ? i am curious about designing a system to your own preference, are we looking for musical reproduction that is as true to the source as we can make, or are we designing something that we "like" to hear. despite all things, there are some very good DIY'ers out there. i would never argue that there are not. to think that you can compete with the true high end designers is just not realistic.

companies that are designing $25,000.00 plus systems are not hampered by money. most of these designs are cost is not object type projects and they make them knowing full well that they are looking at an extremely small market to start with. when you are talking about mid hi products i agree 100%.

i will add this and it is the last post i will make on this subject. at the show in dayton standing in the back of the room listening to music being played with a group of DIY'ers. with the exception of 3 speaker designs every person that i heard talk about thier speaker thought it was the next best speaker after those top three. this is called bias, and is completely normal. people usually feel what they designed is better because they designed it. this is human nature.

i was amazed at how many wrong decisions the judges made. i guess they the desings was not to thier personal preferences.

[NPE]

there are bonding material designed for low resonance and so strong the material around the bond will break before the bond.

but most peple are using MDF of some type and this is not so true in that case.

We're talking speakers here. Glue two pieces of 3/4 wood together using plain old regular wood glue, and you will get no glue resonance, and the glue won't affect the resonance of the panels.. I'm not sure what type of forces you think will be applied to the speakers so that the bond of the glued MDF will get ripped off and so you'll need to use a super high tech glue developed by the NASA, but we're making normal speakers, not a 100 meter tall MDF tower nor a plane... You think you could tell the difference between a speaker built with regular wood glue vs your low resonance and super strong glue? lol

Not sure if you've purposely ignored my earlier posts but your silence probably speaks louder than your words. Pretty much everything I addressed earlier has absolutely no effect on the end sound of the speakers. So saying most DIY doesn't use these things is rather moot...

For CNC: Either a design requires one or it doesn't require it. And a design that requires a CNC machine doesn't make it any better than a design that doesn't. Nor does using a CNC machine to make a part you can make other ways make the part any better...

every person that i heard talk about thier speaker thought it was the next best speaker after those top three. this is called bias, and is completely normal.

Something I hope you probably realize you've got too with your own set of speakers... :T

Besides, I guess it always depend on what you compare to what. When you're taking a 20000$ or 40000$ commercial design, I'd be very curious to know what you'd be comparing them with... I guess there's only so much money you can throw at a problem... Using the best drivers you could make killer mains and probably wouldn't get anywhere close 5000$ let alone 10k or 20k for parts, so I guess you'd have enough $$$ to build 4 monster subs to fill out the low end... Could even go with active crossovers... Anyhow...

To be frank, I've never heard such all out DIY speakers, so have nothing to compare the different flagship speakers from the big company out there. But I know that DIY gives you killer bang for the buck, and even at ultra high end, if you throw as much money as the top of the line speakers like Dynaudio, B&W, JMLabs, etc., you'd more than likely end up with an insane setup, more than likely very comparable at least...

[Squidspeak]

Limp Biscuits?

[Hdale85]

I don't think most DIY designs require custom drivers because we don't design to fit a particular size restraint or cabinet restraint most of the time, they are designed around the drivers. Generally I think companies get custom drivers to fit budget costs and to add some sort of "feature" that they can throw in their literature weather it benefits the design or not (the later being true most of the time I'd imagine). Also the DIY crowd can and has gotten custom drivers made before. If you head on over to DIYMA they've had custom subwoofers made for the community and I'm 90% sure I have seen custom midranges made for community use in other forums as well. With how easily we can access the manufacturing sides of businesses these days it's not hard to get custom work done at all. This is a DIY age in all aspects and not just talking about speakers. There are people doing DIY DNA sequencing at home and have home made centrifuges and all kinds of other equipment, there is really nothing a person can't do in their own home these days just about. And I'd be surprised if there was absolutely no way for someone to get a-hold of custom adhesives or what not. I'm sure some way or another there is a way to get it. There was a really nice article in Popular Science about what can be done by a DIYer at home these days and it was pretty amazing.

Also CNC machines are easily accessible by many and there are several people on this forum and other DIY forums that have their own machines. I had CNC work done for my speakers and it wasn't that bad at all really and I know there are quite a few people on here that have done the same and I get emails all the time about people wanting my original cad files for my speakers to get them CNC'd them selves.

[AdelaaR]

Can you elaborate on this? What does it matter if they use biscuits or not?
Can you elaborate here too? Do you believe that under blind conditions you could tell the difference between speakers using any of those joints vs another simply glued together? If not, how is that relevant? I don't think I'm grasping your point here...

I agree.
If CraigK has any scientific evidence that "biscuits" or any special joints make an actual double-blind test proven audible difference compared against well made DIY cabinets not using aforementioned techniques ...
he should present the evidence.
If not ... well ...

[Johnloudb]

let me ask, in the DIY world how many people do you know that have actually had cab's cut using a CNC ?

CNC is really cost effective when you are doing a complicated cut and you need many of the same kind. The 24 boards I had CNC cut from one piece of baltic birch cost me $190 including the wood and I would not have even attempted to cut those on my own. So, very cost effective. Most people can afford that. There is no reason to go the CNC route for most projects.

becasue you thought the system sounded bright might just mean you like your sound with less top end.

Or our room acoustics are better room ... many possibilities.

the comment about "just because manufacturers can do something does not mean they should," then you turn around and say that a DIY'er can design a system for his own personal preference. i am confused ??? what is the difference between you thinking you are right and the manufacturer thinking what he is doing is right. i wonder how that system would have sounded in your listening room ?

I'm saying audio is a subjective sport. :W

I never said I was right, but I have my opinions! I'm saying that, in my experience I am more able to design a system for myself that makes me happy than any manufacturer can, for the same dollars or any dollars cause there are some things manufactures just won't do.

John

[dar47]

It's okay that Craig has heard better high end commercial stuff compared to DIY.
With my background in woodworking there is 2 things to consider, Fit & Finish. Commercial finish can be hard too match with production processes and materials they pay a fraction of our costs for. I struggle with this as I have worked in a large cabinet factory and their repeat ability on finish is hard to match. In terms of fit, even the commercial guys with the best processes are dealing with wood and it is constantly moving so no matter what bracing and joint technique they or we use can have failures. I would think careful cabinet design to manage resonance and damping can be done just as well with DIY, it just takes time (see Jon's Ardent design). I have access to nearly free CNC and I believe with most processes you can match precision it just takes more time and care.

On the system design side I would think we are both dealing with compromise no matter what amount of money we are throwing at it. If the commercial design has custom drivers, is each and every xover adjusted for production batch or differences in samples within the batch? Is each xover component tested and adjusted in each speaker shipped? Some of these DIY designers are vary talented system designers using standard drivers they can approach vary high levels and I am vary happy just to follow along. We have too buy most everything we need from companies making products just to live life, it's just vary satisfying that we can make really good speakers all on our own.

[Hank]

Craig: sorry, I was a bit harsh - you just struck a cord with some of your DIY comments that really don't relate to quality, accurate sound. First, I'll clear the air about the word "awesome". My definition of the word is exactly what you are seeking: "accurate". 'nuff said.
Next, there's too much about adhesives here. Whether plywood or MDF, carpenters glue will give an accurately cut set of boards a strong, permanent fitment. My company makes lots of adhesives, from professional woodworker glues to the adhesives that have replaced rivets in holding airplanes together. I have tried the test on both ply and MDF - have applied forces to try to break joints, but every time, the boards broke at points away from the joints. Proven. And the cured glue doesn't resonate. Biscuits: they are used mainly for alignment in cases where DIYers have commented. I don't use them. If I'm doing a large floorstander, I use a pneumatic brad nailer to keep panels in place while I apply clamps.

Anyway, enjoy your quest for accurate sound in our subjective hobby :T

[craigk]

Hank,

i said that i would not reply any more to this post, but will make and exception. i know that i hit a nerve with the DIY'ers, and really did not mean to. i will still stick to my guns about DIY and the big boys. that is just "my" opinion and in the grand scheme of things means nothing. i guess where i am going with this is the fact that in the true high end audio there are companies that go to extremes looking for that last iota of accurate sound reproduction. no matter how stupid or usless people think it might be, they are still trying to improve the status quo of speaker design. we could still be driving model A's around. they were "perfectly" good transportation. as things improved we felt the need for transportation to improve. people were willing to look at new concepts and try to improve on the existing technologies. this is my idea of DIY. sure we can clone this or that. we can make some very good DIY speakers for a tenth of what an equivalent commercial design would cost. i was very impressed with several designs i listened to in dayton a few weeks ago. the continuums, trichotomies, open invit8tions (there is an 8 there) etc. my idea of DIY is to try and create the best speaker i can. to me part of that includes making the best box you can mount your drivers in, but some how a post on cloning turned into a monster, maybe a good reason not to clone. the main thing about DIY is to enjoy what you are doing. but maybe next time you are working on a project you might think "wonder what would happen if i tried to improve on this just a little."

Hank, i appreciate you taking the time to respond. ;x(

[mph33]

this is lame as hell. everybody took a dump on this thread to rant. thanx for the help guys

[Johnloudb]

mgh33, It happens, get over it! The design you pointed to was a TMWW arrangement as CJD pointed out. He also mentioned the Garnacha he designed. I've seen a number of DIY designs of that type on the forum.

Here's a build that might fit the bill, you don't have to make it curved but this one sure turned out nice!!

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=533844&postcount=59

[Johnloudb]

Oh, to respond to your original question, I don't know of anyone has actually tried to "clone" that design using Scanspeak drivers and such.

[cjd]

this is lame as hell. everybody took a dump on this thread to rant. thanx for the help guys

meh. it's the interwebs, and this is a hobby that draws opinionated and passionate folks. We care about what we care about.

I'm still interested in what draws you to this particular design as it could help direct you to a DIY design already out there with similar characteristics.

FWIW, I tend to limit pointing folks to designs I've done, but there are many many excellent options out there (and, some not so hot options...)

[mph33]

mgh33, It happens, get over it! The design you pointed to was a TMWW arrangement as CJD pointed out. He also mentioned the Garnacha he designed. I've seen a number of DIY designs of that type on the forum.

Here's a build that might fit the bill, you don't have to make it curved but this one sure turned out nice!!

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...4&postcount=59

I'm digging the curved cab. very size looking speaker. reminds me of some old athenas. does the design have good bass response for solid kick-drum? very good looking speaker. I want lie ... I'm kinda iffy with Dayton drivers. never used them

[NPE]

As for creating the clones, as mentioned, probably wouldn't be a good idea... In some instances, I think building a clone is a good idea, but in others, the idea of a 'clone' might not be the best...

Exchanged a few pms with craig and he gave me a better perspective of his position (maybe should have been done here for all to read?), but anyhow, a bit of my last PM to him on the subject and about cloning:

vs the Novas for instance, the Verity Sarastro in DIY form (http://www.verityaudio.com/en/index...cts/sarastro-ii) could be doable, and the cabinets seem in a more easily doable shape or design.. Not sure about designing a rear woofer vs front...

I guess maybe it would be better to simply play off the DIY strengths. You can go crazy. You can make very wide and 4 inch thick bamboo baffles if you want, extensive bracing, you could in theory use a ton of super expensive and large drivers... Eight feet tall with four 10 inch woofers per speaker like the dynaudio statement? With RAAL or AMT tweeter or whatnot? Active crossovers? Why not!

How much would these beasts cost, using the top drivers? Fraction of a pair of Novas, and a comparison would at least be very interesting!

Thing is for a commercial design, these would just not work as they'd be far to large/heavy to be practical, but... DIY?

Anyhow, tyler has similar speakers, and from what I've heard, they're not extraordinary.... http://www.tyleracoustics.com/ Never got a chance to hear a pair though...

I'd just be reluctant to say DIY can't compete... Maybe you're right... But even ultra high end, you can go more crazy and maybe (probably?) even surpass commercial offerings, I guess it's a matter of design...

What about line arrays? Something like this: http://www.selahaudio.com/id195.html ?

Anyhow, so many options... http://www.selahaudio.com/id74.html


but to go back to the original question:

bass and mid drivers drivers that are custom made by danish sound tech, that the owner of aerial designed,( grad from MIT by the way), and a tweeter custom made by MB quart.

This is what seems to make this speaker work. It's not the 'design', a TMWW, there's plenty of those.. If it's just truncated so you must put them on stands, IMHO, that's not just a selling point... But if you don't have access to the same drivers, since the design is pretty much based on that, what is the point of a clone?

There's a lot of clones where you can basically build the exact same speaker... The manufacturer uses drivers accessible to the DIY community, and it's just a matter of using the same components to build the exact same thing... But if you can't use the same drivers, and must use different drives with different crossover points & all, then it's not really a 'clone'...

And to go back to the discussion whether or not DIY can compete with commercial flaship designs, I'd be very curious to know if they really can or can't. IMHO, it's not so much to trying to copy exactly a design, but more play to the DIY advantages and strengths. DIY might have limitations towards commercial designs, but DIY also don't have the restrictions the commercial speakers have. I really don't think DIY is at a big disadvantage there...

[CADman_ks]

Apologies...

To mph33 and craigk, my sincerest apologies for derailing this thread in post three. I think that might have been where the wheels came off.

I've caught some ribbin' for makin' mirror matched cabinets, and I thought that I would rib back a little bit, but unfortunately that came at your expense.

Those were not my intentions.

All-in-all though, I think that you'll find that the people here are a lot more wanna-have-fun kind of people, as opposed to some other boards that are just all business and no fun. That just means that you may be on the receiving end of some ribbing at times, and it's usually all in good fun.

With that being said, there are also a LOT of people on this board that are very good at what they do, that being DIY speaker building, and I respect each and every one of them.

So, I guess sometimes you have to take the good with that bad, and just hang in there. I hope that you find something worthwhile here...

[Rony]

How do you compare the continuums to the rest

[heapatrouble]

meh. it's the interwebs, and this is a hobby that draws opinionated and passionate folks. We care about what we care about.

I'm still interested in what draws you to this particular design as it could help direct you to a DIY design already out there with similar characteristics.

FWIW, I tend to limit pointing folks to designs I've done, but there are many many excellent options out there (and, some not so hot options...)

A number of years ago, I had the good fortune to be able to listen to an Aerial home theater system based around LR5's, a CC5, two of their subs and Theta digital electronics. It left a hell of an impression on me even years later, and kind of set a benchmark in my mind as to what I'd like my own ultimate HT system to sound like one day. I grew up playing piano and performing in various blues and jazz ensembles as well as classical mass choirs. It is no exaggeration, then, for me to say that I have a VERY good idea of what music CAN sound like - both live and through a home system. My impression of the system I heard was that, despite the obvious downfall of being a not particularly efficient system, it was, nonetheless, a powerful, dynamic and extremely accurate-sounding system.

All this is to day that I cannot fault someone for wanting to create a system which (a) might look like those speakers and (b) might perform as well as, or better than, those speakers using those benchmarks.

IF the OP's goal is to create that type of system, one which might visually resemble that system - and here, again, I can say the construction, fit and finish are all extraordinary - then I say 'Go for it!'