What do you use for a reference?

[diamondjoequimb]

I am in the process of putting together a decent 2 channel system. I have built 1 pair of speakers before (the Zaph bargain MTM for my dad). They came out pretty nice and sounded better than I expected. Ever since then I have wanted to build a nice set for myself. I have poured over various designs and also gone to listen to speakers at the local hi-fi shops. I am really torn because I hate buying a speaker without hearing it first (I actually work in the car audio industry and preach this to my customers all the time) but I'm really intrigued about building a high-ish end DIY design vs spending the same $$ on a more mid-fi/entry hi-fi commercial design. I'm wondering, do you have(or have had) a commercial reference speaker to compare your DIY builds, or did you just jump in DIY w/ both feet and tweak and adjust as you go along?

[diamondjoequimb]

Just for fun, here's the speakers I built for my dad...







And, my latest project, my subwoofer enclosure for my store's/my personal demo car:

[cjd]

No.
For me it's live performance, mostly classical, all acoustic ('unplugged')

[diamondjoequimb]

No.
For me it's live performance, mostly classical, all acoustic ('unplugged')

I get live is the way to get the reference for what instruments actually sound like, but I'm looking at slightly smaller picture reference.

[technodanvan]

Pretty much jumped in feet first here. I gained interest in the hobby when I was in high school and built my first speakers in college, at that point there was really no other option for having some really nice speakers.

I have recently started going to a number of smaller hi-fi shops around town as I have had similar questions myself. Honestly I don't think I can really compare anything directly simply because the rooms are so different. Mine is certainly less than ideal, and most showrooms I've been to aren't perfect either. I listened to some B&W 804 Diamonds for a while in a pretty decent system and while I think they sounded better than my mains on some songs (especially in the bass department) they didn't really floor me. For reference my mains are Wayne Jaeshke's 'Eros' design, which is a fairly dated MTM tower that cost around $900 in parts (drivers + electronics) that I built in 2005 and was probably designed a couple years prior to that. It has remained in my system ever since I built it, though I reconstructed the cabinet a couple years ago and may update the crossover in a year or two. They aren't the end-all be-all speaker, but they play most anything competently and I enjoy them.

I'm sure I am fairly biased in this assessment, but to me they held up favorably to a well-received $7K+ speaker and that says a lot. I have a number of projects already purchased and ready to build now, but after those are complete I will begin saving some pennies for a high-end 2-way floorstander to replace the Eros as my music mains.

[Paul W]

Honestly I don't think I can really compare anything directly simply because the rooms are so different.

Consider good headphones. Different presentation than "speakers in a room" but they are certainly consistent. Never really liked headphones, but bought Sennheiser 650's because I was going to be without decent speakers for a year. Now, when I think speakers are right, the 650's make a good comparative reference.

[cjd]

Consider good headphones. Different presentation than "speakers in a room" but they are certainly consistent. Never really liked headphones, but bought Sennheiser 650's because I was going to be without decent speakers for a year. Now, when I think speakers are right, the 650's make a good comparative reference.

That's an interesting point. I do sometimes reference a recording on speakers against my UE TripleFi's, but more often than not that's to validate that something I hear (or thought I should hear but is missing?) might actually be there.

C

[craigk]

live is the ultimate reference. the problem, it is hard to bring "live" home. i like the use of headphones also, the only problem i find with headphones is that at times they seem to place the music in my head (lots of empty space in there) and not around my head.

[NPE]

Sadly, I'd say none or high end systems like JMLabs Utopia and the such I think the issue is that you're never hearing a performance, you're hearing a recording, so if you want to benchmark speakers, then your reference must be a recording... Headphones don't really convey the music like speakers, so I guess my reference is the 'best' rendition of the albums I know best, which doesn't say much because with auditory memory being what it is and a sort of constant lack of tangible reference, these albums are also flawed as reference...

I guess voice or instruments can be a good reference, but again, you're not hearing a performance you're hearing a recording which most likely isn't a perfect reproduction of the original... But right now my reference are the Holtz Statement Monitors, really monster these! Yet, I wonder if the amazing soundstage is 'fake' and created by the speakers, or is just so very well reproduced by the speakers... Whatever it is, they sound amazing, 100% they're my new reference, but I think now speakers which might be more accurate (if they have a smaller soundstage & that's more accurate) might be spoiled for me, as the amazing soundstage is so addictive!

Even the room... My god... The room... I guess you have to go with live music, but again, you're listening recordings... lol

[technodanvan]

Consider good headphones. Different presentation than "speakers in a room" but they are certainly consistent. Never really liked headphones, but bought Sennheiser 650's because I was going to be without decent speakers for a year. Now, when I think speakers are right, the 650's make a good comparative reference.

A fair point, though I've never really heard any headphones that I liked (including the TriplFi's cjd mentioned). Plus I'm worried about getting sucked into that hobby too, some of those guys spend more on their headphone setups than I do on a full 7.1 system!

With all that said, it may be something worth pursuing with an appropriate budget in mind.

[AdelaaR]

My reference is "Dark Side of the Moon".
I sit in front of the speakers and just listen to it.
Very personal and prone to all kinds of bias, I know, but that's my reference.
Also: "fast car" by Tracy Chapman and "Brothers in Arms" by Dire Straits.
I know what these could and should sound like and I compare.
Also ... when doing comparisons ... I like to turn up the volume quite a bit to somewhere near "live volume level" ... most speakers instantly reveal their weaknesses at such levels.
Much of it is personal preference, of course.

[AdelaaR]

But right now my reference are the Holtz Statement Monitors, really monster these! Yet, I wonder if the amazing soundstage is 'fake' and created by the speakers, or is just so very well reproduced by the speakers...

One could say that a soundstage, created by a speaker, is always "fake".
Most of the soundstage isn't even created by the speaker, but by the reflections of the room.
The Statements, with their backfiring sound, obviously have more reflections of the middle frequencies (compared to closed designs) and so have a big soundstage, when properly reflected back to the listener.
This isn't "wrong".
A concert hall with live classical instruments does almost exactly the same thing to create it's "soundstage" through reflections ... and these concert halls are often refered to as the ultimate "reference" for speakers.
I have the full size Statements with Diffusers btw ... they sound like the room is at least 3 times wider than it actually is

[NPE]

One could say that a soundstage, created by a speaker, is always "fake".
Most of the soundstage isn't even created by the speaker, but by the reflections of the room.
The Statements, with their backfiring sound, obviously have more reflections of the middle frequencies (compared to closed designs) and so have a big soundstage, when properly reflected back to the listener.
This isn't "wrong".
A concert hall with live classical instruments does almost exactly the same thing to create it's "soundstage" through reflections ... and these concert halls are often refered to as the ultimate "reference" for speakers.
I have the full size Statements with Diffusers btw ... they sound like the room is at least 3 times wider than it actually is

Yeah huge sound even from Monitors! 8O Well not to make this particularly about the Statements But recordings do have 'depth', some sounds will appear to come from behind the speakers, others between them, and others right in front of them... On perfect speakers, even without a room or in an anechoic room, I'm sure you'd hear this effect, and perceive 'depth'. But, in room, some speakers might even throw more depth than the perfect speaker, because the speaker would add depth (Statements).

It's similar to say warmth (excess bass frequencies). It's not on the recording, but the speakers distort the recording and add bass. Might sound great on some albums, but if there's already a lot of bass in an album, then it can become a bassy mess...

An interesting thing though, so far, and I've played quite a bit of styles/testing tracks, the Statements haven't seemed to be guilty of 'faking' soundstage or adding 'depth' that it 'breaks' certain recordings... For instance, on this fabulous track (concert is great too) , there's a TON atmosphere, and the huge concert hall sound definitely appears behind the speakers. If the Holtz had the same problem as warmth, it would have been an incoherent mess, like it comes from 100 feet behind the speakers, but they passed the test with flying colors, it sounded just right. Unlike bassy speakers that play a bassy song and it becomes way too much bass.

Anyhow, a perfect transducer would perfectly convert the electrical signal to sound waves, anything added or not reproduced would be distortion or not accurate, but as I meant, since we can't know exactly what the recording is supposed to sound exactly that (unless you yourself record and play something), you can never be be entirely sure of what the room/gear contribute to the recording! And even what sounds better to our ears, might not be more accurate...

It's just I often hear people hear gear and say that a particular recording sounds more life like on X because for instance X musician appears to be 3m behind the speakers... Well, most recordings are mixed anyhow, so unless it's specified (Chesky records for instance do this), you can't really be sure if it's better or worst! Even if it sounds better, might not actually be...

[AdelaaR]

Recordings can do all kinds of things ... but those things are mostly added by the mixing engineer to make it sound more interesting.
A microphone does not record where sound comes from ... or at least not like your ears do, and so any recording will always be less "interesting" than the original sound, because that original sound came from various angles, yet the microphone failed to accurately record this.
How can something like a stereo recording accurately represent a piano with it's 200+ strings generating sound from various places and then reflecting it on the lid?
It can't.
I have never heard any recording of any piano that sounded as good as actually standing next to an actual piano while it's being played.
If one listens to the actual recordings, as they are on the track -like with studio monitors- one will find that the music is quite dull.
To many untrained ears, cheap speakers with their harmonics, distortions and various other "added content" seem to sound rich and pleasant ... whereas studio monitors with their extremely neutral sound seem dull and lifeless.
So the question is: what do you prefer? The music as it is on the recording? Or the sensation of that "live" feeling and that huge soundstage?
The trick is to not add distortion or harmonics, but to add depth by increasing the amount of angles at which the music reaches you, preferably in a way in which certain frequencies tend to be directionaly grouped.
I'm sure this is why you find your Statement Monitors to have such depth and such width ... because they do exactly that.
Personally I even like to listen to music in surround these days. I know it's not very audiophile of me ... but I like the added atmosphere and the increased depth.

[impala454]

Hello, just wanted to mention (with my limited knowledge mind you), shouldn't one of the inductors in your crossover be turned perpendicular to the other? I believe in the orientation you have them they may interfere with each other a bit.

[diamondjoequimb]

So what you guys are saying is, "No, I don't use commercial speakers"?

[Hdale85]

There are plenty of us that have owned and do own commercial speakers or have replaced commercial speakers in the past with DIY designs. I used to own a pair of Klipsch RF-62's and I replaced them with the Lineup Maxx's and the Lineups were definitely much more balanced and had a much nicer tone to them! But the Klipsch's were extremely nice as well.

[diamondjoequimb]

I'm just conflicted and indecisive. Also, really all over the place in terms of what i want. I've listened to a set of Dynaudio excites (x12s I think), a pair of Dali's, and a pair of Vandersteen 1Cs. Of those I likes the Dyns the best.

For DIY, I'm bouncing between the Zaph ZD5 or ZRT, or one of the statement versions.

[Mr.Ed]

Where are you located? Maybe you can find someone near you that has some DIY's you can listen to. Possibly give you some perspective.
-Ed

[NPE]

Recordings can do all kinds of things ... but those things are mostly added by the mixing engineer to make it sound more interesting.
A microphone does not record where sound comes from ... or at least not like your ears do, and so any recording will always be less "interesting" than the original sound, because that original sound came from various angles, yet the microphone failed to accurately record this.
How can something like a stereo recording accurately represent a piano with it's 200+ strings generating sound from various places and then reflecting it on the lid?
It can't.
I have never heard any recording of any piano that sounded as good as actually standing next to an actual piano while it's being played.
If one listens to the actual recordings, as they are on the track -like with studio monitors- one will find that the music is quite dull.
To many untrained ears, cheap speakers with their harmonics, distortions and various other "added content" seem to sound rich and pleasant ... whereas studio monitors with their extremely neutral sound seem dull and lifeless.
So the question is: what do you prefer? The music as it is on the recording? Or the sensation of that "live" feeling and that huge soundstage?
The trick is to not add distortion or harmonics, but to add depth by increasing the amount of angles at which the music reaches you, preferably in a way in which certain frequencies tend to be directionaly grouped.
I'm sure this is why you find your Statement Monitors to have such depth and such width ... because they do exactly that.
Personally I even like to listen to music in surround these days. I know it's not very audiophile of me ... but I like the added atmosphere and the increased depth.

Interesting! I've heard on a few occasions MBL speakers and they sounded quite nice, but I mostly attributed this to their 21000$ worth of electrostatic components rather than their omni directional design. Ok, for spacious soundstage sure, but I was under the impression that given the larger number of reflections there would be a sort of smearing/blurring of the detail... Same for Magnepans or electrostatics, I've largely attributed detail/imaging/ss mostly to the speaker itself and not the reflections, I've actually always seen reflections as a negative thing... I understand that a little is required, but I was always sort of assuming that adding reflections (omni, bipolar, etc.) somewhat reduced clarity/detail....

[diamondjoequimb]

Where are you located? Maybe you can find someone near you that has some DIY's you can listen to. Possibly give you some perspective.
-Ed

Kansas City metro

[diamondjoequimb]

Side note, am I nuts for considering the full Statements in a room that is 12'x16'?

[NPE]

For DIY, I'm bouncing between the Zaph ZD5 or ZRT, or one of the statement versions.

I was in the exact same position... What are your thoughts so far on the matter? Anyone heard more than one of the above designs? I've typed a bunch on the subject but having heard just the Statement Monitors my thoughts are little more than speculation...

[NPE]

Side note, am I nuts for considering the full Statements in a room that is 12'x16'?

Funny, I asked the same question like 2-3 years ago and was told that they would do fine in a very slightly smaller room :T

Ok, my speculation on the matter, just for the sake of discussion...

Well, I was sort of in the same boat... h: My guesstimates after hearing the Statement Monitors:

1) They are crazy :W
2) While I don't doubt the ZD5 is sweet, I really doubt it'd sound anywhere as 'big' as the Statement Monitors. Granted, it's not the goal, but, if you want the most clarity/detail, maybe the ZD5 might be the best choice, although the Statement's mid/tweet are killer.. But if you want a speaker with a huge soundstage and with some meat to it, I'd guess that like the Sierra NrT, the ZD5 would sound small compared to the Monitors... The SS Rev is a sweet sounding driver for sure though...
3) As per #1, the Monitor Statements are crazy, so going full Statement is pretty crazy... 8O You know you must do it :
4) ZRT imho, without hearing again full statements or ZRTs, my guess, they'll not be as authoritative as the full Statements, but vs the Statement Monitors with their 7 inch Rev and larger cabinet would probably be more similar to the Monitors than the ZD5 in terms of big sound...

Anyway, tough choice, but I don't think you can go wrong with any of these designs! I'd say out of the 4, 3 would be equally good as a choice, and the 4th, ZD5, I'd pick last only because it's the most limited design and smaller package, like 600-750$ for Monitor Statements (parts) is sick and you're giving up quite a bit going back to smaller 5 inch designs... If you're going to build one, I'd say go big!

That said, I almost went with the ZD5... Even today they'd seem like an attractive build because of the smaller footprint and the claimed "best 2 way"... Full statements must sound crazy and for dynamics, the Monitors are already awesome, bass extension is phenomenal, so full statements... 8O There are truly some madmen around these parts :T And the ZRT, well, top components, top quality, can't go wrong... But the detail, imaging, soundstage, all amazing with the Monitors, so like I said, most probably all great choices... :T

[craigk]

i do not think you could go wrong with the ZD5. on paul caromdy's web site there are a pair of speakers called untitled, down at the bottom of the page. i am the owner of these speakers. they use the same 15w, but i went with a hiquphon tweeter. you can read paul's review, he likes them. these are some of the best 2 ways i have listened to, period. i listen to them in a room that is 12x14, they will play as loud as you want to be in the room with them. if you do not listen to music with a lot of sythn. bass or organ music a extreme levels they will make all the bass you will ever need. the bass is very good also, tight, fast, it jsut sounds right. in my listening room i have focal utopias, they are better, but not by as much as what you would think, and when concidering price difference the 2 ways kill them. one lst thing, i think i like the hiquphon tweeter better, it sounds very right. good luck in hte speaker hunt, it is half the fun.

[AdelaaR]

Side note, am I nuts for considering the full Statements in a room that is 12'x16'?

My room is slightly smaller ... and I believe they sound just fine.
I did, however, construct a room-in-room type basstrap and I'm planning on covering parts of the walls with rockwool and cloth for further bass absorption.

[Mr.Ed]

My room is 11 x 12, much smaller than yours, and I have the MiniStatements. With two seats I feel that the mini's are too big for my room. By the time you pull them out I feel they just overpower the room( looks wise). I replaced them with a pair of Selah Audios SSR's. These use the Scanspeak 7" Revelators and the same ribbon as the Statement series. IMO these sound even better than the minis BUT, I was never able to position the mini's correctly so that may be unfair to say. I had Rick setup the crossover for nearwall placement so they don't come out into the room like the Mini's. Don't get me wrong, I think the Mini's sound fantastic but I prefer the SSR's in my situation.
Just food for thought.
-Ed

[Alaric]

My reference is "Dark Side of the Moon".

+1. I use the SACD and an original release album. Sheryl Crow's "Tuesday Night Music Club" is a good reference for me , also. Some other's include Natalie Merchants "Tiger Lilly" and a 180gm Japanese pressing of "Nevermind" by Nirvana. And "Long Cool Woman" by the Hollies-an astoundingly well recorded and produced piece of music. On a decent system that song will put you in a small club in Soho with a warm beer and too much cigarette smoke. Most of my reference material is on vinyl , Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms is a very good CD.

[diamondjoequimb]

So I lied, my primary room option is 10'x15'. I have another I could use that is 12'x15'. However, that one is brutally hot in the summer, like it is still 90+ degrees in there at 9:30p (highest room in house).

I think I'm strongly leaning the DIY way, and currently leaning toward one of the bigger Statement variants. I figure listening position will be about 6-7' from the face of the speaker leaving 2-3' to the back wall.

My logical side says the minis would be plenty, but the biggerbetterfastermore side of me, says if I can shoehorn the big'uns in there, go for it. (also, don't want to regret the minis if I build them)

Anyone do full size in about that size configuration room? Thoughts in general?

I promise, I'll stop asking boring questions and actually build something soon.

[Jim Holtz]

All of the Statements (except near wall Monitors) were designed to be positioned and work very well with 18" from the back of the speaker to the wall behind. I'd also recommend sitting 8' - 10' away for best driver integration. That's a general recommendation but should work well for you.

BTW, if you want to drive to the Des Moines, IA area, you can listen to the original pair of Statements. Sorry, I no longer have the Mini's and the Monitors are mounted on the rear walls as surrounds so it would just be full sized Statements available for audition.

HTH

Jim

[craigk]

if you are where you could take a pair of speakers home to audition, or know some one with a pair of 3 ways, i would strongly suggest it. do not get caught up in the "bigger is better" mind set. try a pair of good 2 ways and then a 3 way system. one of the biggest mistakes people make is to much speaker for the room size. good luck.

craig

[diamondjoequimb]

Jim- thanks for the offer, I might just take you up on that.

Craig- that's what the logical side is screaming at me. The Dynaudios I listened to we're a 5.8" + tweet 2 way and I was very impressed with them.

[craigk]

dynaudio drivers have been used in a number of great designs. my favorite (not including some of there crazy expensive speakers) are the totem mani 2's. i have never heard such high quality and as much bass produced by a monitor. it uses 2 17w's in an isoberic set up. just a very musical speakers. i would make a real effort to try some good monitors in your room.

[Jim Holtz]

I've just got to disagree that a small monitor is better than a floor standing 3-way with the same tweeter and mid-woofer. Separating the bass duties from the midrange will always sound cleaner and the 3-way will offer the path to clean, tight "real" bass that a 2-way can't come close to.

I've owned a number of commercial 2 and 3 ways before going DIY which lead me to a small 2-way monitor with dual subs. After many more DIY designs, I ended up with 6'4" line arrays that had (2) 12" subs and a 15" that I rolled in for home theater. That morphed into the Statements which have been my reference for the last 5 years.

Sorry, but 2-ways don't stand up to a well designed 3-way if you have the room.

My $.02 worth....

Jim

[craigk]

i agree that if you have the room andare looking for that bottom octave that you are not going to get it with a 2 way, but if you can live with out it, a really good 2 way will usually sound as good if not better than most 3 way designs. i have heard very few 3 ways that can disappear and pull you into the music like a really good 2 way can. there are some 3's that can, but they are ususally high dollar speakers. you also bring up a good point with bass and a small room. i am not sure if the better solution would not be a nice little sub, 10 or 12 inch, that has some equalization capablilty. this way you can tune the bass. with a 3 way you have to live with what youve got. i do like 2.5 and 3 way designs, but when i was starting out and lived in small houses with small rooms i just found it much easier to get a 2 way to sound good. my main speakers are focal utopias, so i do like big speakers.

[diamondjoequimb]

I've just got to disagree that a small monitor is better than a floor standing 3-way with the same tweeter and mid-woofer. Separating the bass duties from the midrange will always sound cleaner and the 3-way will offer the path to clean, tight "real" bass that a 2-way can't come close to.

I've owned a number of commercial 2 and 3 ways before going DIY which lead me to a small 2-way monitor with dual subs. After many more DIY designs, I ended up with 6'4" line arrays that had (2) 12" subs and a 15" that I rolled in for home theater. That morphed into the Statements which have been my reference for the last 5 years.

Sorry, but 2-ways don't stand up to a well designed 3-way if you have the room.

My $.02 worth....

Jim

I'm looking at the Zaph SR71s now too (like I said, I'm indecisive). I am still VERY intrigued by a statement design, I just fear they will be too big for the room.

I think the full ones are probably just silly in my space. I'm teetering on the size of the minis. My fear is, by the time I get ~8' away once they are 18" off the back wall I'll only have ~2-3' to the back wall and that will cause some reflection issues.

I thought I read somewhere (I've lost track at this point) that one of the designers actually thought the monitors sound the best of all the statements. Any truth to this? Also, for Jim, is the ideal distance on the monitors still 8-10'? Or could I get a little closer on those?

FWIW, these speakers will be exclusively 2 ch music at this point. I'm okay adding a sub down the road if I feel it is needed.

If I only had unlimited space and $$...

[Jim Holtz]

I'm looking at the Zaph SR71s now too (like I said, I'm indecisive). I am still VERY intrigued by a statement design, I just fear they will be too big for the room.

I think the full ones are probably just silly in my space. I'm teetering on the size of the minis. My fear is, by the time I get ~8' away once they are 18" off the back wall I'll only have ~2-3' to the back wall and that will cause some reflection issues.

I thought I read somewhere (I've lost track at this point) that one of the designers actually thought the monitors sound the best of all the statements. Any truth to this? Also, for Jim, is the ideal distance on the monitors still 8-10'? Or could I get a little closer on those?

FWIW, these speakers will be exclusively 2 ch music at this point. I'm okay adding a sub down the road if I feel it is needed.

If I only had unlimited space and $$...

Actually, very few speakers sound very good (nearfield studio monitors)if you're setting closer than 8' from them. The drivers need a bit of distance to the listener to blend and integrate the sound. Curt took a lot of time getting the Monitors to sound just right because he felt they would be the most popular. I prefer the far wall version rather than the near wall. The near wall sound good but the soundstage isn't as large and transparent as the other varieties.

The more I read your situation, if you do decide to build a version of the Statements, I'd recommend the far wall Monitors. They'll be more the size you like and they'll have the huge soundstage that makes the speakers disappear.

Good luck...

Jim

[diamondjoequimb]

Actually, very few speakers sound very good (nearfield studio monitors)if you're setting closer than 8' from them. The drivers need a bit of distance to the listener to blend and integrate the sound. Curt took a lot of time getting the Monitors to sound just right because he felt they would be the most popular. I prefer the far wall version rather than the near wall. The near wall sound good but the soundstage isn't as large and transparent as the other varieties.

The more I read your situation, if you do decide to build a version of the Statements, I'd recommend the far wall Monitors. They'll be more the size you like and they'll have the huge soundstage that makes the speakers disappear.

Good luck...

Jim

Thanks for the input. I really appreciate all you guys answering questions that I'm sure you have answered a million times before.

[diamondjoequimb]

Well, pulled the trigger. Just ordered all the Parts Express parts for a pair of far wall statement monitors. Now on to the build...

[Mr.Ed]

You're going to love them.
-Ed

[AdelaaR]

Excellent

[Jim Holtz]

Well, pulled the trigger. Just ordered all the Parts Express parts for a pair of far wall statement monitors. Now on to the build...

We like pictures! :B

There are many build threads here on HT Guide that will help you with the questions that pop up during construction. We're always willing to help out too but a quick search will usually get you quicker answers.

Please start a build thread here in the main section so we can follow your progress.

Good luck with the build!

Jim

[diamondjoequimb]

We like pictures! :B

There are many build threads here on HT Guide that will help you with the questions that pop up during construction. We're always willing to help out too but a quick search will usually get you quicker answers.

Please start a build thread here in the main section so we can follow your progress.

Good luck with the build!

Jim

Will do. I've already been looking at others' build threads. Now I'm obsessing about cabinet style (stand mount, floor standing, curved, squared, finishes, etc.). Did I mention I'm indecisive? I'm hoping the heat will break in the next week or so and I can get out in the shop and get started.

[AdelaaR]

Did I mention I'm indecisive?

Indecisive is a negative word.

When someone takes on a challenge, brainstorms about all the possibilities, envisions various plans and their possible strenghts and weaknesses, compares these plans incorporating as many internal and external variables as possible in the equation, comes up with what he or she thinks is the best possible plan, sleeps a few nights over the whole plan letting it sink in, completely re-eveluates the whole plan and doublechecks if all parameters make sense in the real world
... and then finally makes the decision to actually take on the challenge and go with the plan ...

I don't call that "indecisive" ... I call that "good decision making".