oneplustwo CJD RS150 TM build thread

[oneplustwo]

I can't seem to stay focused these days... building sealed statements, two amps, and a buffer all at the same time. Anywho... here's a thread for the latest item. A pair of CJDs rs150 . I need a pair of smaller speakers for the bedroom. They'll probably be driven from a chip amp (that I've actually completed already) using my iphone as a source! h:

I got the tweeters in the pawn shop and the woofers aren't that much to begin with so I just bought them.

I'm planning on doing every side but the front as a a simple birch plywood build with mitered and biscuited corners. Might need to clean up the corners with a 3/8" bevel as a design feature (I'm a sucker for the laminate look for some reason). Thinking a basic hand rubbed tung oil finish similar to many of my other builds.

The front will be MDF with beveled corners as well 1/2", painted a flat or satin black.

[joeybutts]

Make it rain.

Are you designing these or following a design?

[oneplustwo]

It's cjd's design from the completed designs thread. Doesn't get a lot of PR around here but I thought it was a good fit for what I was looking for.

[---k---]

Sounds like a great plan. But you got the tweeters in a pawn shop??? really??? I never would have thought... though I've never been in a pawn shop either...


btw, maybe throw a link in your first post to CJD's design so people can check it out.

[oneplustwo]

Sounds like a great plan. But you got the tweeters in a pawn shop??? really??? I never would have thought... though I've never been in a pawn shop either...


btw, maybe throw a link in your first post to CJD's design so people can check it out.

Actually, the htguide pawn shop...

Link added to the first post.

[oneplustwo]

Basic boxes cut, glued, and sanded:


Bracing and baffles are next.

[---k---]

Looks nice. Did you veneer? It looks like you mitered the sides, but how did you do the back?

[oneplustwo]

I still have not yet ventured into the wonderful world of veneering. I'm a little scared of the technique and very scared of the price.

The sides are mitered and biscuited. The back is mitered as well. I did not do a good job though... I'm probably off by about half a degree in squareness so the back didn't quite fit as snugly as I would have liked. You can't really tell from the pictures and it's only in the back but there is definitely a slight gap in a couple areas. Thankfully, I was able to use glue to close the gap pretty easily.

[CADman_ks]

...

The sides are mitered and biscuited. The back is mitered as well. I did not do a good job though... I'm probably off by about half a degree in squareness so the back didn't quite fit as snugly as I would have liked. You can't really tell from the pictures and it's only in the back but there is definitely a slight gap in a couple areas. ...

It would not be easy to make all of those angles come out in on the back! There's a lot going on there.

I have never had any luck at all using my biscuit joiner on miters. It seems like it never quite comes out, and you only have to be a smidgen, and then your corners don't line up.

From the pictures, it doesn't look like your off really that far.

Looks good!!!

CADman_ks

[---k---]

I still have not yet ventured into the wonderful world of veneering. I'm a little scared of the technique and very scared of the price.

The sides are mitered and biscuited. The back is mitered as well. I did not do a good job though... I'm probably off by about half a degree in squareness so the back didn't quite fit as snugly as I would have liked. You can't really tell from the pictures and it's only in the back but there is definitely a slight gap in a couple areas. Thankfully, I was able to use glue to close the gap pretty easily.

I was wondering about that. I've been kicking around building some boxes just like that for a while.... I think it has been the thing keeping me from building. But, you convinced me that I'm push my skills a little and to try it.. So, I just got back from Menard's with a sheet of Maple ply and a pair of 4' long 1" solid maple for the baffle....

[cjd]

The only plate jointer (biscuit) I'd recommend for miter work, at an affordable price anyhow, is the Porter Cable. If you're worried about the joints not being perfect, for this type of work you can make them very very slightly acute (at the outside edge). Better to do a test corner with 3 pieces of scrap and make sure you've got your angle right.

Who am I to say though - I just got done with my first bit of work ever using Shellac, and I love the stuff. After all the nightmare stories out there of people hating it... so I must be weird.

[oneplustwo]

The only plate jointer (biscuit) I'd recommend for miter work, at an affordable price anyhow, is the Porter Cable. If you're worried about the joints not being perfect, for this type of work you can make them very very slightly acute (at the outside edge). Better to do a test corner with 3 pieces of scrap and make sure you've got your angle right.

I almost got the porter cable one but the dewalt was on sale so I got that one. Hearing your thoughts though, I guess I should have sprung for it. In retrospect, I probably would have just done it without the biscuits. I did a similar mitered construction with my subwoofer and the joints came out better since the biscuits didn't force them out of whack. Even the front and rear double mitered corners were good. I must have be on my game that day. There is still the issue of them being not perfect even if you do nail the miters. The ply veneer just isn't very thick... which makes the corner really tricky. I just kind broke the corners with the sander and I'm ok with the look. As I mentioned in my first post, I was going to just chamfer the corners but I think I like this execution better. I figured I could just chamfer later if I didn't like it.

Who am I to say though - I just got done with my first bit of work ever using Shellac, and I love the stuff. After all the nightmare stories out there of people hating it... so I must be weird.

Shellac is another thing I haven't tried. The tung oil thing is easy to do and easy to repair if necessary. But I should venture out... maybe the statements will be shellac'd?!

[oneplustwo]

It would not be easy to make all of those angles come out in on the back! There's a lot going on there.

I have never had any luck at all using my biscuit joiner on miters. It seems like it never quite comes out, and you only have to be a smidgen, and then your corners don't line up.

From the pictures, it doesn't look like your off really that far.

Looks good!!!

CADman_ks

My skills are average... the pictures make the joints look better than they are. I'm not brave enough to post macro shots at risk of burning your eyes, but rest assured, they are worse than they appear! 8O

[CADman_ks]

My skills are average... the pictures make the joints look better than they are. I'm not brave enough to post macro shots at risk of burning your eyes, but rest assured, they are worse than they appear! 8O

LOL!!!

Find my Stentorian posting on here. There's a REASON that there are NO closeup shots...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I almost got the porter cable one but the dewalt was on sale so I got that one. Hearing your thoughts though, I guess I should have sprung for it....

I have the DeWalt as well.

I openly admit that I bleed black and yellow, possibly to a fault. When I bought mine, I didn't do any comparisons or shopping at all to find the "best" model, I just went and bought the black and yellow one.

While it's OK, and I haven't really had any problems with it, it does NOT do well on miters, or at least I can't make it do well on miters, which is probably more likely the case.

And while I bleed black and yellow, I still have only had ONE DeWalt tool really fail me, and that was my DW621 router, which had the electronic control module go out. It was easy to fix, though, just not cheap.

I have absolutely abused some of my DeWalt tools, and they keep coming back for more...

CADman_ks

[oneplustwo]

I have the DeWalt as well.

I openly admit that I bleed black and yellow, possibly to a fault. When I bought mine, I didn't do any comparisons or shopping at all to find the "best" model, I just went and bought the black and yellow one.

While it's OK, and I haven't really had any problems with it, it does NOT do well on miters, or at least I can't make it do well on miters, which is probably more likely the case.

And while I bleed black and yellow, I still have only had ONE DeWalt tool really fail me, and that was my DW621 router, which had the electronic control module go out. It was easy to fix, though, just not cheap.

I have absolutely abused some of my DeWalt tools, and they keep coming back for more...

CADman_ks

I actually have a mix of porter cable and dewalt tools myself. Table saw, random orbital sander, router, nail gun, compressor are PC. Jig saw, corded drill, electric screwdriver, and biscuit joiner are Dewalt. I've been reasonably happy with all of them. Bigger issue is my skill level I think! Can I buy that?

[CADman_ks]

... Bigger issue is my skill level I think! Can I buy that?

I don't know that you can "buy" that, but it certainly does help to use good quality tools.

If you have a cheap circular saw that won't square to save your life, then the tool is making you look bad.

While I have some cheaper quality hand type tools from Harbor Freight, all of my power tools are good quality name brand something-or-the-other, mostly DeWalt. With that being said, if I wanted / needed a hand plane, HF wouldn't be the first place I would stop / shop. Some tools you just have to lay down the scratch for. No getting around it...

CADman_ks

[cjd]

Shellac in this case is a sealer and base. I'll be going over it with a Tung oil or oil/poly mix for durability and to see if the maple pops any more. A hot cup of coffee is a likely resident if the final project and shellac isn't always as happy with that.

Plus this is practice for finishing the ansonicas which will include a tint in the 2nd+ shellac coats.

[oneplustwo]

I finished the crossovers for one speaker yesterday and got it lined with foam. Hooked the drivers up and nothing blew up so I think I'm ok. Need to do the same for the next one as well as do up the baffles. Speaking of finishes, I'm going to try my hand at an oil based satin black brush on paint. Sounds like I need to use an oil based primer. Is this necessary or can I get away with just sealing with water and glue? I've not had good luck sealing the edges of MDF in the past...

[oneplustwo]

Current state:

May be the messiest crossovers and internal foam I've ever done. Using left over bits and pieces from other projects to keep the cost down. Also, mounted (hot glued) the crossovers directly to the cross bracing to eliminate a step and also keep the assembly small enough to remove via the woofer hole if ever necessary. Not sure that will prove to be the best decision ultimately but oh well... Time will tell.

I may zip tie the assembly in a few places just to make sure things don't loosen up with time and put a hole in the woofer in an earthquake or something!

[---k---]

I made the biggest pile of scrap wood yesterday trying to put together a box with all miter cuts. I blame you. Those are looking great.

[CADman_ks]

Man, you are ROCKIN' on those things!!!, and they are lookin' good!!!

That is one nice thing about using pre-veneered plywood. You don't have the extra work of putting veneer on...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I made the biggest pile of scrap wood yesterday trying to put together a box with all miter cuts. I blame you. Those are looking great.

I take that to mean that you weren't exactly successful in your execution of miter cuts? It ain't exactly easy...

CADman_ks

[oneplustwo]

I made the biggest pile of scrap wood yesterday trying to put together a box with all miter cuts. I blame you. Those are looking great.

Maybe this will make you feel better... This is the ugliest joint on the speakers. It's on the rear bottom so no one will likely notice, but still, I know it's there. The glue did a nice job of filling the gap though. It's about 1/8" at the widest. (Masking tape did a nice job holding the glue in too )



Second set of crossovers done and wired/glued in. I'm really scraping the bottom for the barrel for foam. Will need to tear apart some sofa cushions soon! (And yes, those are repurposed power cords.)

[CADman_ks]

Maybe this will make you feel better... This is the ugliest joint on the speakers. It's on the rear bottom so no one will likely notice, but still, I know it's there. The glue did a nice job of filling the gap though. It's about 1/8" at the widest. (Masking tape did a nice job holding the glue in too )

Did you put your back on at the same time that you did the sides, or did you wait for the sides to somewhat dry? It looks like the back may have pushed this apart when you put it on.

If you did the back last, after the sides had dried, you could always whittle on the back until it just dropped in. You could also "relieve" the miter so that there would be more gap at the inside of the miter. Which, in this case, wouldn't matter, because that would be inside the box.

I still commend you for doing it this way. At the end of the day, this isn't an easy way to build a cabinet, IMHO.

...

...(And yes, those are repurposed power cords.)

You do know that your two speakers won't sound the same? You didn't use the same wire.

CADman_ks

[---k---]

I take that to mean that you weren't exactly successful in your execution of miter cuts? It ain't exactly easy...

CADman_ks

I'm not sure yet. I got what I think are all the cuts made. I tried to do a little dry fitting, but it was sliding around on me and it was getting late.... I'm not all that hopeful... but if it is really bad, I can always try my hand at veneer.

I think my biggest problem was that I'm trying to make a 36" tall tower and I didn't use an in-feed table. With my little portable saw, getting good, straight feed was really difficult. Probably with a smaller box, I would have been some what better. My second biggest problem was my lack of planning and just winging it. ops:

We'll see... I think my plan is to glue/nail back-up blocks partially along the inside of the corners. These blocks will help me align everything and can then make the joints and then whatever I get out of the miter is a bonus....

[oneplustwo]

Did you put your back on at the same time that you did the sides, or did you wait for the sides to somewhat dry? It looks like the back may have pushed this apart when you put it on.

If you did the back last, after the sides had dried, you could always whittle on the back until it just dropped in. You could also "relieve" the miter so that there would be more gap at the inside of the miter. Which, in this case, wouldn't matter, because that would be inside the box.

I still commend you for doing it this way. At the end of the day, this isn't an easy way to build a cabinet, IMHO.


CADman_ks

I did the rear separately. What I should have done is waited to actually cut the rear after the initial glue up. I did that with my subwoofer and was able to make minor adjustments. With this, I just got lazy and made do with what I had mostly because this whole thing is made with scraps from other projects and I didn't have more material to redo them. Your point is certainly valid though! As you can tell though, this particular project will be more of an exercise in efficiency of build vs high quality. It could be both I guess, but I'm lazy.

[oneplustwo]

I'm not sure yet. I got what I think are all the cuts made. I tried to do a little dry fitting, but it was sliding around on me and it was getting late.... I'm not all that hopeful... but if it is really bad, I can always try my hand at veneer.

I think my biggest problem was that I'm trying to make a 36" tall tower and I didn't use an in-feed table. With my little portable saw, getting good, straight feed was really difficult. Probably with a smaller box, I would have been some what better. My second biggest problem was my lack of planning and just winging it. ops:

We'll see... I think my plan is to glue/nail back-up blocks partially along the inside of the corners. These blocks will help me align everything and can then make the joints and then whatever I get out of the miter is a bonus....

You might consider trying the tape/plastic wrap technique (see sig) that i used for my subwoofer. In retrospect I would have done that instated of the biscuits but i wanted to play with my new toy so I biscuited this one.

[CADman_ks]

...

I think my biggest problem was that I'm trying to make a 36" tall tower and I didn't use an in-feed table. With my little portable saw, getting good, straight feed was really difficult. Probably with a smaller box, I would have been some what better. My second biggest problem was my lack of planning and just winging it. ops:

...

I've built two mantels for fireplaces that have mitered joints that are longer than this, like about 42". You have the same problem with pieces that are 36" tall. At that point, your just at the mercy of everything. If you're angle is off, you have to deal with it.

I did mine without an infeed or outfeed table, and that makes it all that much harder. That's especially true when you're cutting that second miter, and the first miter is wanting to hide under the fence, and get caught up in there...

CADman_ks

[oneplustwo]

I'm now thinking about using plywood for the front baffles. Mostly so they semi-match the aesthetic of my subwoofer with it's ply baffle and the Sunflowers with their exposed plys but also so I don't have to paint. =). The edges would likely be chamfered since I don't like the look of rounded over plywood. A little worried about cutting the driver holes though. Not sure the ply veneer will rout out smoothly especially with my limited skill level. Got a new 1/4" straight bit so that should help at least. I'll give it a shot today if the weather holds... if I'm lucky, might be able to get everything assembled and done this weekend!

One question... do you typically stuff sealed boxes with poly-fill to taste as well? Didn't know if it made much of a difference in small sealed boxes.

[technodanvan]

One question... do you typically stuff sealed boxes with poly-fill to taste as well? Didn't know if it made much of a difference in small sealed boxes.

I would, the crossovers probably take up more room than you think, what with the extra bracing. A little poly-fill can help negate those effects on the internal volume.

Those look fantastic man, really!

[oneplustwo]

Got the baffles mostly done today. Messed up one clearance hole a bit but fixing with bondo. Won't be visible so not a big deal. Just have to glue them down, trim/chamfer, and then finish sand, and tung oil. And install the drivers I guess! Hoping the weather is nice enough to get them done tomorrow!

[oneplustwo]

Here's one nearing completion. Dropped the drivers in just to take a look. Still need to finish sand and tung oil the baffle. You can see where I'm filling in a couple of the voids in the plywood as well. And the tape to protect the sides still needs to be removed. But it's getting there!

[oneplustwo]

Done! Not an ideal setup, I know. But the bedroom in general is not setup well and it was hard enough to get my wife to let me have them in the bedroom at all. So they're relegated to my side for now. They may end up as surround sound speakers at some point when i have a room suitable for a multi-channel setup. In the middle, the top two boxes are the PSU and amp box for my B22 headphone amp. The bottom box is a chip amp. All in matching par metal cases.




So how do they sound? Well, these are the smallest speakers I've built to date and they sound smaller with not so much bass as you would guess. But the tweeter and midwoofer integrate nicely as far as I can tell so far. The woofer sounds much like the rest of the Dayton line. I'm pretty accustomed to them by now having used the rs 125, 180, and 225 in other designs. The tweeter might be a little "metallic" for my tastes but I really haven't given them a proper audition yet so take that and all the other comments with a grain of salt. They're not terribly sensitive either but not an issue for what I need them to do.

All in all, a satisfying build. Especially considering all of the cabinet parts were leftovers from other projects and I got the tweeters used for half retail.

Now, on to those statements! Still have not decided what those cabinets will look like.

[CADman_ks]

Looks nice!!!!

CADman_ks

[cjd]

If they're not quite right for you, holler. These were purely theory-crafted, though based on data from other stuff. But there's always room to tweak.

[oneplustwo]

Thanks CJD. I think they're fine at the moment. I listen to my sunflowers and zdt3.5 on a regular basis and it's not fair to compare those larger vented designs to this smaller sealed design in the bass department. I'll listen to the tweeter a bit more but I think it was just that one recording that I didn't like... It was a quick disaster check through pandora with the speakers sitting right next to each other on top of my chip amp. More to come as I run some familiar material through them.

Also, to finish the "value" theme, I couldn't find any extra speaker cable so I sacrificed a VGA cable. Seems to work ok. Just took forever to strip all those wires. Not a good use of time, but I didn't want to run out to the shack tonight. Plus, I've always been curious what those cables are made up of. Turned out to make about a 16ga cable or so. Only needed to be 18" or so.

[---k---]

If they sound a little "metallic" try playing with the stuffing. try taking a little out. I know sounds opposite, but give it a try, and then try adding.

[oneplustwo]

I think my issue was that the drivers just weren't broken in. They are sounding more like what I was expecting now. Also, the bass frequencies seem to be coming out more too. As a matter of fact, I threw some Tron soundtrack at them at the max of my iPhone and chip amp combination and those little RS150s can move! (Chip amp is set to less gain than default.) I thought they would approach Xmax but I didn't hear any bottoming out. Not even as much distortion as I would have expected.

Could be psychoacoustic perception rather than real change. Or like most things in the world, a combination of perception and reality. In any case, I'm growing more and more fond of them!

Thanks CJD for the design!