Garnachas it is..

[witchdr]

Hello everyone, I would like to introduce myself. I have been lurking for a month now. I am getting ready to start my build but I need some direction. I want to start with a small set of towers and add more to my HT as time progresses.. right now I have have a sony sound bar.. I am getting tired of the sound (or lack there of).. And now I need more punch! I used to have an all klipsh setup that I no longer have the space for, I have moved the klipsh to work for shop speakers.

I have a pretty small space where these speakers are going, I wanted to build the mini statements ( I will insert picture to give you an idea), I don't think I have the proper wall space for them.. then I came across the Nat P's.. and the Garnacha's.. I like the foot print of the Garnacha's.



this is going to be my first build, I will take my time, cross over part of the builds is not really my concern.. as I have a good friend who is an electrical engineer who can assist me.. or vice versa.

I would like to get your opinions of my options. what would sound good and not. mostly HT use but my gf loves to listen to music. I will add a sub later..

here is my receiver



you guys are very talented, thank you so much in advance ;x(

[CWH&R]

I built the Garnacha's and like them much. From the looks of what you have to work with as far as room layout, The statements might be out of the question as they need alot of room around them too really shine.

[fbov]

Hello everyone, ...I want to start with a small set of towers... have a sony sound bar.. I am getting tired of the sound (or lack there of).. And now I need more punch! I used to have an all klipsh setup ...I have a pretty small space where these speakers are going, I... mostly HT use but my gf loves to listen to music. I will add a sub later....(

Two questions:
- what is your budget?
- what are your expectations?

Soundbar-to-Klipsh is a cavernous range of sound production capability! Especially regarding SPL capability as most Klipsh speakers are quite sensitive, a design philosophy that puts "loud" ahead of other sonic attributes. It's important to know, starting out, if loud is what you like, or if you're looking for a more refined sound.

It's also important to know what's driving the speakers. I looked up your Denon and see it's power output is only rated at 8- and 6-ohms. Conversely, all three choices you picked are dual-driver designs with impedence minima approaching 3 ohms. Denon will not approve, but you are likely still OK. Just read this so you go in with eyes open.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/impedance-selector-switch-1

That said... I have NatP's, and I had no impedence issues with my '90's era Pioneer AVR, so I think Audioholics is spot-on. I built mine as towers, tuned very low so they're good into the 20Hz range. The parts are running ~$200/each, and if you're serious about HT, the proper CC parts run about $350 (Modula MTM CC). The great advantage is in flexibility:
- free-standing and in-wall XO designs
- value (NatP) and top-quality (Modula) variants
- TM and MTM variants

The Statements certainly have a lot of variants, but not a complete family, and both they and Garnacha will cost a good bit more due to an additional driver and a second pair of high/low pass circuitry. The latter has a unique advantage in that it was designed from scratch to use the newer unshielded RS-series drivers. I'm building a second pair of NatP's now using the unshielded drivers.

Now, to digress... MTM's are wonderful for HT, but stereo is a different animal - I don't like MTMs for stereo near as much as a simple TM. My ears tell me TMs engage the room much better, and that's by design - dual drivers in an MTM shape the sound field to reduce radiation toward floor and ceiling, yet that's exactly the sound that makes the TM sound better... for stereo. It's all in driver geometry, and both Garnacha and Ministatement driver geometry will engage the room acoustically to a greater extent than an MTM. However, in a multichannel program, I like MTMs better as the ambiance they're missing in stereo is encoded in the multichannel mix, and that MTM sound field shaping becomes an unreserved advantage.

HAve fun,
Frank

PS have you looked at the Master List? There are simply too many choices....

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=211558

[---k---]

I would build the Garnacha. .... To many people have already built the NatP and MiniStatements. You'll be the cool new kid with the speakers no one else has.

All are good designs. There are other good designs out there too. I'm not going to make a recommendation, because once you narrow it down to a couple good designs it is somewhat a personal preference with lots of different tradeoffs. But, likely you'll be happy with either. So, if you must have my recommendation, flip a coin.

I will mention though that I don't have a problem with an MTM and stereo. CJD obviously doesn't either. It is like Frank says, are you trying to engage the room or not. MTM limits floor and ceiling bounce. I guess it depends on your room and the type of music you're listening too.

[cjd]

To me, the biggest gain you get is moving to a 3-way for HT is that it limits the (often extreme) excursion induced midrange problems from the equation. If you're running with a sub, that may be less of an issue, but even with a sub I prefer 3-ways. My HT has WMTW's up front.

The Garnacha is part of a family of designs that can fit most any need, including multiple center and surround options. Not sure if that matters to you, but if it does...

NatP is a great speaker.

I've not heard any of the Statements so have to rely on word-of-mouth so can't make any comments on them at all.

[witchdr]

let me start off by saying thank you! I have gleaned all the info I can.. I have a better understanding of the ohm's.. so I might have to correct this in the future. As far as budget goes.. its not unlimited.. but I am going to build these slowly(lol.. I always say that) I want to take my time. I expect that they look good and sound great compared to what I can spend the same money for manufactured ones... on that note.. they seem to lack something nowadays ( like quality).

I figured as much on the mini's.. that I lack the space needed .. I do want something a little different.. CJD your designs are stunning (aesthetically) I like simple and clean.. nat p's follow this too.

as silly as it sounds I will be building a 3.1 setup.. I lack space for a 5.1. I like options.. so I think I will go with the garnacha's

p.s. I don't know how I could have missed that master list in all my research.. (mind blown)
cjd.. is there a full set of plans available for the garnacha's? I'll go back and read over the your build thread..

thank you all so much.. one can never have to many hobbies.. haha! glad my gf understands!

[witchdr]

I built the Garnacha's and like them much. From the looks of what you have to work with as far as room layout, The statements might be out of the question as they need alot of room around them too really shine.

Is it possible to see what yours look llike?

A little photo chopping...

[witchdr]

I have found all the info I can for building. I am unclear about bracing, mid box, and stuffing? I spent a few hours on google sketch. To the best of my knowledge all the measurements are correct.



Please let me know.. thank you

[cjd]

I'd turn the bottom of the mid-box into a full front-to-back brace, just put holes only in the back part. Otherwise, that looks correct.

C

[CWH&R]

Garnacha's

I cannot figure out how to post pics here but if you look for CWH&R over at parts express I have afew pics in my album. I have mine paited black til summer returns. I have them bi-amped and sealed, Everyone that hears them are amazed at the sound quality they produce, Even at very high volumes. You will not be disapointed. :T I also built CJD's center design and MTM's too match, soo all of my speakers are CJD's design's and are top notch. ;x( ;x( ;x(

[witchdr]

I'd turn the bottom of the mid-box into a full front-to-back brace, just put holes only in the back part. Otherwise, that looks correct.

C

Thank you cjd... what I was looking for! :T

I cannot figure out how to post pics here but if you look for CWH&R over at parts express I have a few pics in my album. I have mine painted black til summer returns. I have them bi-amped and sealed, Everyone that hears them are amazed at the sound quality they produce, Even at very high volumes. You will not be disappointed. I also built CJD's center design and MTM's too match, so all of my speakers are CJD's design's and are top notch.

no prob.. its pretty easy.. I use photo-bucket. this is the way I know how. upload and image from your computer to photo-bucket, once you have it uploaded you can hover the cursor over the image or click on it.. then there will be an [IMG] code just click it.. it will self copy. then you can go back to your message and Paste it where ever you want to in your message..

Thanks for all the feedback