Why do projects always explode???

[CADman_ks]

Went to the lumber yard today to get the MDF for my Stentorians. In order to build them I need about 1 1/2 sheets, and I got 3/4" for everything.

While I'm helping the attendant load it into the truck, I come to realization that MDF is some heavy stuff! Then I have that epiphanal moment when I realize that there is NO earthly way that I'm going to be able to cut this sheet with table saw without an outfeed mechanism, that I currently don't have.

An outfeed table or roller(s) is something that I've always wanted to build. Well, now I think that I might have to build that before I can even start cutting. That's a good thing, I'll have some outfeed rollers, but now I can't start.

I've also been looking around at how to cut the circles. I might have to get a Jasper jig as well. Juries still out on that one, though, I think that I could make my own out of some plastic stuff that I have at work, and I might still do that. I haven't decided.

I don't think that I have a good 1/4" bit either. Problem need one of those. I probably have one that's single fluted, but double would definitely be better.

Speakers are going to be so dang heavy that I had design some new speaker mounts for hanging them on the wall in the shop. I have them designed, but I don't have them cut yet.

Is it just me, or do others have this? I can't complete anything, it seems like without completing something else first, buying a tool or something. It's just always something, it seems like...

One the plus side though, I had to have my wife help me move the MDF out of the truck. So, I had to let the cat out of the bag about what it was for. Up until now, I had not told her about the speaker build. Well, I'm still sleeping with her, so I guess that's a good thing. She didn't ask how much it was going to cost, and I didn't provide that information either. At this point, forgiveness is much easier to obtain than permission.

C'est la vie...

CADman_ks

[Sylvan]

I totally know what you mean. For my first build, a simple subwoofer that I started a couple of weeks ago, I didn't have anything in the garage for this sort of task. So I had to buy about $500 - $600 in tools, clamps, router bits, sawhorses, and other little things. Of course, now I feel like I have to build more projects in the future to get my money's worth from all this gear.

p.s. About the saw, I realized I can get just as good of a cut with a hand-held circular saw and a good blade, using a guide "fence" clamped to the wood. You can buy those at the lumber yard or make your own.

[AdelaaR]

... story of my life ... and probably many others.

[john trials]

Aw! I thought there was going to be a story about an actual explosion.

I was fortunate enough to build two Tritrix TLs and a 5.1 Statement/sonosub set with mostly borrowed tools (and a neighbor with a minivan to get the MDF). I cut the 4' x 8' MDF with a handheld circular saw by laying it on some 2x4s laying on the driveway. This got it down to manageable sizes. I made a fence (out of scrap) on my bandsaw for the precision cuts. A borrowed router and hand-held jig saw completed the other cuts. All I had to buy were 2-3 router bits and some cheap clamps (all for less than $100).

I have a very understanding wife, who had no problem with me building speakers...but if it meant serious tool acquisition (tools I might never use again), then there would be a problem!

[CADman_ks]

Aw! I thought there was going to be a story about an actual explosion.

...

I gotcha.

It's all about the title.

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

...

I have a very understanding wife, who had no problem with me building speakers...but if it meant serious tool acquisition (tools I might never use again), then there would be a problem!

I actually have an understanding wife as well.

We actually built our own house. Before we started, I made it clear to my wife that I had an unlimited tooling budget to build it, because I needed the right tools to get it done. She was in agreement, and only baulked at one tool that I bought, and it was only about $75. She thought that I would never use it again, but I have used it since, actually more than I thought.

But, from that whole experience, I have actually garnered a fairly awesome set of tools, but there are still some things like this outfeed table / roller that I still don't have...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

...
p.s. About the saw, I realized I can get just as good of a cut with a hand-held circular saw and a good blade, using a guide "fence" clamped to the wood. You can buy those at the lumber yard or make your own.

While that would work, since I have a table saw, it sure seems like the better tool to use for this purpose.

What I've really always wanted was an outfeed TABLE. A surface that's big enough to actually slide the stuff out onto. MDF wasn't as much as I thought it was going to be. Maybe, I should just go and get another piece of that and do it right, and build that outfeed table...

I hate decisions... :x :W

[yzracer14]

IMO you should do it the way you know will get you the greatest results because in the end, you'll have that "it's worth it" feeling and will ultimately enjoy the end product just that much more.

My biggest headache with my build is similar; I am finding myself having to build jigs for almost everything. But it's the nature of the beast. Have fun with your build.

[---k---]

Yeah. We've been telling people for years that DIY speakers isn't about saving money. It is a hobby and hobbies cost money. Doh!

CJD turned me on to birch ply long ago. I've been using that for all my builds. It is about 30% lighter. There are debates about which is better, ply or mdf, each have pluses and minuses that I choose to ignore because my plywood speakers sound great.

When I bought my ply from the hardwood store, I had them cut it down into 3 manageable pieces and do final cuts myself. If I buy it at Menards (which has great wood), I will place it on the ground and cut it into similar manageable pieces with a skill saw and a homemade saw board guide, then onto the table saw for final cuts. But, I would take a outfeed table if I had room to store it in my garage.

I have the Jasper circle jig for my router. It is nice to have, especially as you make more and more cuts. CJD uses a home made circle jig. He made it from scrap 1/2 mdf. We used it to cut the baffles my Khanspires. It works perfectly. You just have to do a little math and measure carefully and make test cuts. Probably not all that time consuming once you get the hang of it.

1/4" bit??? You're talking the spiral cutting bit for the driver holes? You'll also want a flush trim bit for cleaning up all you edges. And round over bits, and possibly chamfer bits.... I much prefer to work w/ 1/2" bits. I found the Bosch spiral cutting bits from Lowes work well. All my other bits are from discount online venders such as mcls.

Have you thought about clamps yet... oooh there is a big one. Can never have enough of those. Though a brad nailer was my best friend on a recent build. Brad nailer and huge 40 gallon compressor. That was an expensive solution for a pair of speakers I was building to give away.

Luckily I too have an understanding wife. You know, as my Grandma tells her, "he could be out spending all his money at the bar..."

[madmac]

I've only built speakers once in my life and that was only because I could not afford to buy a pair (I was around 18 at the time). I made them out of 1/2 inch plywood but lined the inside of them with 1/2 inch presswood for stability. For the speaker holes, I used a jigsaw to cut them round. I used Radio Shack drivers and crossovers and to tell you the truth, they actually sounded very good for a home jobber at the time!!.

As for mounting speakers???......My current surrounds weigh about 40 pounds each so I knew that when I mounted them up on the side walls, them falling down WAS NOT an option because whoever the speakers would hit as they fell would likely die as a result!!. What I did was put two heavy duty toggle bolts into the wall and attached 2 industrial, heavy duty hanging hinges to them, as well as to the speakers themselves. With this setup, I can hang myself off off these speakers and they will STILL not come down!!!. It's all about peace of mind when you are sitting right below these monsters!!

[mdocod]

I have a small table saw, a regular 120V 7" circular saw, and a ~5" cordless circular saw.

Using clamped straight edges and the 5" cordless saw is hands down the best way to deal with large sheets of MDF in my opinion. The lower RPM of the cordless means that rather than blowing MDF dust into every nook and onto every surface of the garage, it is all deposited neatly in the vicinity of the cut, and can be cleaned up more easily. The cordLESS is convenient for making long cuts for obvious reasons related to the lack of a cord. Not having to man-handle a 4x8' sheet across a table should be a no-brainer advantage.

Eric

[dar47]

Ah, memories of the the first couple of builds. After 5 or so projects I started making lists of new stuff I wanted and replacement of worn stuff. I'm glad you have an understanding wife. I tell my wife I'm watching every pair shoes, and new outfits she brings in and I'm matching her dollar for dollar.

After you build all the speaks you want you can then take it up a notch and build the speakers she doesn't know she wants. For instance my wife wanted one of those goofy corner fire place tv stands in the master bedroom to replace are existing 36" Panny CRT.

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I said you would probably like one of these better,

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She said ya to the flush mount fireplace, now I can build a corner counsel with 3 built in mt's LCR and a 10" sub in the bottom and a new panel on top of that. I also thought of in wall for a 5 channels but I think that's pushing it to much. :rofl:

[Johnloudb]

Aw! I thought there was going to be a story about an actual explosion.

I know, I hate teaser titles. Of course, he's gonna more hits than if his title is "I'm discouraged ... life has problems."

I gotcha.

It's all about the title.

Nice work! :T

[JonMarsh]

Well, what I've found is that after you've finished your first 50 DIY speaker projects, you'll probably have on hand all the tools you'll need, so buck up, there's hope!

[CADman_ks]

Well, what I've found is that after you've finished your first 50 DIY speaker projects, you'll probably have on hand all the tools you'll need, so buck up, there's hope!

LOL!

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

I know, I hate teaser titles. Of course, he's gonna more hits than if his title is "I'm discouraged ... life has problems."
...

I gotcha to read, though, didn't I.

I often find that these are the best types of posts anyways. It's never a bad thing to add a little bit of humor to your daily life...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

Yeah. We've been telling people for years that DIY speakers isn't about saving money. It is a hobby and hobbies cost money. Doh!

I look at that a little bit differently than most, I guess. If I'm doing something for myself, then my time is free. At that point, I AM actually saving money building my own speakers, because my is free. Obviously, if I factored in my time, that wouldn't be the case. But I think that another argument can be made that the product that I'm going to end up with is going to be as good, if not better than MOST production speakers in this class, and there's no doubt that they will cost less, even if I factor in my time.

When I bought my ply from the hardwood store, I had them cut it down into 3 manageable pieces and do final cuts myself. If I buy it at Menards (which has great wood), I will place it on the ground and cut it into similar manageable pieces with a skill saw and a homemade saw board guide, then onto the table saw for final cuts. But, I would take a outfeed table if I had room to store it in my garage.

All right, you guys are talking me into it. I might do this approach though, and cut my large piece down to manageable pieces, and then table saw them. That does make some good sense. I was thinking about keeping the piece whole, to try and keep the edges as straight and true as I can. I guess that I could overcut everything, and that cut it down to the final size. That should work out OK as well.

1/4" bit??? You're talking the spiral cutting bit for the driver holes? You'll also want a flush trim bit for cleaning up all you edges. And round over bits, and possibly chamfer bits.... I much prefer to work w/ 1/2" bits. I found the Bosch spiral cutting bits from Lowes work well. All my other bits are from discount online venders such as mcls.

Sorry, I didn't clarify there. Yes on the driver hole bit. I do need a bit no matter what though, because mine is only a single flute. They had doubles at the lumber yard, but I like the idea of the spiral better. Yes, I do have two pattern bits as well, and I have used those in the past, so I'm familiar with those and how they work. No learning curve there.

Have you thought about clamps yet... oooh there is a big one. Can never have enough of those. Though a brad nailer was my best friend on a recent build. Brad nailer and huge 40 gallon compressor. That was an expensive solution for a pair of speakers I was building to give away.

I haven't counted the number of clamps that I have, but I have a BUNCH, but you're right, I probably don't have enough. I actually have some pipe clamps that are still in the box. Oh wait.... That means a trip to the plumbing place to get a piece of pipe made. Now I have more clamps!!! WOOHOO!

For joining, I also have a biscuit joiner if I want to go that way.

Have a brad nailer, crown stapler, and large finish nailer. Got all of those when I was builidng my house (see previous post about unlimited tool budget when building the house). I think I have a big enough air compressor. 80 gal, twin stage Ingersoll-Rand. I could build the brad nailer to build this entire speaker, and the air compressor would never run. Yes, it holds that much air. I hate air compressors that just run and run all the time, so I got a big one, and then some.

Actually, tool wise, I'm good, which a few exceptions. And I think for the tools that I don't have, I can probably get by doing my own thing, like with the Jasper jig. We'll see...

All of this is helpful and GREAT information!!!

CADman_ks

[cjd]

I would just make myself a sawboard. Oh wait. I did.

Uses a circular saw+sawboard and it gives you very accurate cuts if you take that little bit of time to set it up carefully. It can be as accurate as a table saw. And much MUCH safer than working full-sheet plywood on the tabke saw, not to mention fewer opportunities to screw up. Feeding sheet-stock accurately sucks unless you have an infeed table in addition to outfeed, and a really long fence.

[CADman_ks]

I would just make myself a sawboard. Oh wait. I did.

Uses a circular saw+sawboard and it gives you very accurate cuts if you take that little bit of time to set it up carefully. It can be as accurate as a table saw. And much MUCH safer than working full-sheet plywood on the tabke saw, not to mention fewer opportunities to screw up. Feeding sheet-stock accurately sucks unless you have an infeed table in addition to outfeed, and a really long fence.

:agree: UNCLE!!!!

All right... You guys have talked me into it. I'm going to have my shop cut me a sawboard out of some 1/4 steel (we don't have aluminum here). That way I know that the thing is straight and true. I can have one made for the 48" way as well.

:cry: Now I have to wait even longer until I can start. BUT, on the bright side of things, "if something's worth doing, it's worth doing right."

I'm learning to be more patient as I get older... 8)

[CADman_ks]

.... I tell my wife I'm watching every pair shoes, and new outfits she brings in and I'm matching her dollar for dollar.

...

Oh man, I'm glad that is NOT the case with me. If I matched my wife dollar per dollar, I wouldn't ever get anything. My wife doesn't hardly spend any money. I definitely spend more than her...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

Well, THESE monsters are going to weigh in around 50lbs each, as near as I can tell. So, I had to come up with some kind of mount to hold them up there, because my current speakers that I have hanging in this same location only weigh probably 10lbs each, and I have a pretty light weight bracket holding them up. I knew that wasn't going to work for these.

So, I designed these:

This is the whole thing. It's a two piece bracket. One that is mounted to the side of the speaker, and then there's a top bracket that bolts to that side bracket and the post of my building.



Here's a better shot of the bracket joint at the top. The red piece is the top piece. The whole is mounted with some slots that allow me to quickly take the speakers off of the wall if I want to take them off. If I want to, I can tighten the bolts, and the brackets shouldn't move.



These are made out of 11GA (.120) thick steel, and I'm planting on powder coating them black...

CADman_ks

[---k---]

50#??? Is that all? Mine are around 100#

Brackets look nice. I would have just gone to Home Depot and used closet shelf angle brackets and built a shelf. Get one in a stud and one with a good drywall anchor and you wouldn't have a problem holding them up. But, if you got access to the equipment to cut those brackets!

[CADman_ks]

50#??? Is that all? Mine are around 100#

Brackets look nice. I would have just gone to Home Depot and used closet shelf angle brackets and built a shelf. Get one in a stud and one with a good drywall anchor and you wouldn't have a problem holding them up. But, if you got access to the equipment to cut those brackets!

Yeah, that's one of the perks of having a laser at your disposal. I can "dream" up some cool stuff. 8)8)8)

But, one of the reasons that I didn't use "regular" brackets like you were talking about was because I wanted to get the speakers tipped at the optimum angle for the place where I work the most in the shop. So, these brackets actually tip the speakers down, and turn them in at the right angle, so it's a compound angle that they are sitting at.

That would be a little bit more problematic if I used regular brackets. Those posts that I'm anchoring to are 4 1/2" thick by 10" deep. They are laminated 2 x 10's to get the 4 1/2" thickness. They are pretty beefy...

CADman_ks

[CADman_ks]

50#??? Is that all? Mine are around 100#

Estimated weight.

Who knows where it will end up...

CADman_ks

[kvardas]

I always have Home Depot break down sheets of MDF and plywood into managable pieces (smaller sheets) that I can deal with at home.

[CADman_ks]

I always have Home Depot break down sheets of MDF and plywood into managable pieces (smaller sheets) that I can deal with at home.

My local lumber yard would have done that for me too, but I wasn't thinking that way at the time. And, they would have done that for free.

I was also there at go-home-thirty, so they all wanted to leave. I probably could have left them with the dimensions, and picked them up the next day.

One thing that I did find out though, was that my local lumber yard actually has CHEAPER pricing on MDF than both HomeDepot, Lowes, and Menards. And for me, the box stores are all 30 minutes away. In this case, locally for me was a no brainer...