Music subwoofer for a relatively big space?

[fjhuerta]

Hello all!

Things are sometimes strange. I built the biggest speakers I could for my living room (the space they are playing it must be close to... 80 square meters, or almost 900 square feet), the three ways with two big 10" RS270's, etc.

Although I liked their sound, there was some piercing midrange I could never totally get rid of. It actually was the room - huge windows, stone walls and metal / glass stairs really made getting good sound out of them impossible. I moved them to our game room and they rock there.

I moved the Miniliths (http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=26798) back to my living room. I cannot understand or explain why, but they sound far more relaxed on the midrange. All I can think of is that the dispersion of the Neos is more compatible with my room. Nevertheless, 2 8" woofers aren't enough. They don't hit hard enough, and they don't go loud enough.

Considering that I don't listen at mind-piercing levels there, I was wondering if a Titanic 10" with 300W would be enough... it'll all be music, so no explosions or stuff like that.

[boostinsteve]

I would say to go with the RSS315HF-4 w/ 300-500 watts. Build a nice vented enclosure, and you will get way better sound than the titanic can deliver. I have the 15" titanic, and can tell you, it gets muddy when playing music. I have it in a 6.5 ft3 vented enclosure tuned to 19Hz. HT it is awesome, but just lacks the detail I want for music.

[fjhuerta]

Thanks! I like the RS series but I wasn't sure how their subwoofers sound. I want to get away with the smallest driver I can because s/h is pretty expensive for them... i'm still debating whether a 10" would be enough...

[gbegland]

I used to have a pair of the Titanic 10" in my system. Don't waste your time. Go with a pair of the Rythmik servo subs. You can't beat these for a music sub. Absolutely clean, precise bass. See my 15" version here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1292180

Greg

[boostinsteve]

Thanks! I like the RS series but I wasn't sure how their subwoofers sound. I want to get away with the smallest driver I can because s/h is pretty expensive for them... i'm still debating whether a 10" would be enough...

I can understand that, I live in Hawaii. I would say look at getting the bigger sub for a few bucks extra though. That is a big space for a 10" to provide enough bass to satisfy me.

[Paul W]

Agree with comments that the space is too large for a small sub...way too large. Go for at least one RS390HF, maybe with a little trap on the breakup.

[yelnatsch517]

That's a huge room. A couple of these would be good. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-666

What's your budget?

[BOBinGA]

I've had no trouble with an RSS265HF-4 in 2 cu.ft. ported in a 500 sq.ft. room, but 900 sq.ft. would likely require more - at least an RSS315. You will also need at least 500 watts if you plan to EQ the bottom end since even a 3 db boost at 20 hz will require twice the power used by higher frequencies.

-Bob

[Theresa]

I would (and did) get a Shiva II 12" from Exodus Audio. Terrific sub in a 3cf enclosure, vented with a passive radiator. You wouldn't need a vented one if it is almost exclusively for music and a 2 cf might even be enough, there is hardly any music that goes below 30Hz except for technopop and organ music. You could probably get by with a Dayton sub if its just for music too, I just love the design of the Exodus subs and they certainly don't lack "punch."

[fbov]

...Considering that I don't listen at mind-piercing levels there, I was wondering if a Titanic 10" with 300W would be enough... it'll all be music, so no explosions or stuff like that.

I'll let you know for sure in a week or so (applying finish now), but this looks like a great application for Insubnia, the 20Hz tapped horn sub discussed here. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1238398

The early samples were coming out around 86dB/W @ 1M (with 8 ohm drivers), with a predicted max power of 75W, so it should make 105dB. A single Titanic 10" is 85dB/W @ 1M, with greater power handling, but there are 2 key points:
- limited max SPL
- musical application only

It seems to me that a 6.5" driver with 20% of the cone mass will be better at music. I'll drive my pair with a single BASH 300W amp. If you really want a big cone, I'd also suggest RS subs from PE, or any of Kevin Haskins' other drivers (also have a Tempest X).

Have fun,
Frank

[FroDaddy]

Nobody has mentioned an infinite baffle setup; they are loud, low, and musical. Thomas runs the "Cult of the Infinitely Baffled" forum which is a treasure trove of IB information.

If you have the ability to mount the IB manifold in the floor you would greatly benefit from a transducer effect as well. I recall someone did this for a 2.1 setup and was thrilled with the results.

With any sub I recommend EQ'ing it; you can vastly improve the sound quality by doing so.

HTH

[---k---]

Javier,

Your room is huge! It all depends on how much bass you like. A single 10" sub would not be enough for me in that size room. But, I can't really give you a definitive answer for how much you need. Because xmax varies from one driver to the next, you should probably model up each of the drivers to get apples-to-apples. My guess would be at least one 15", but probably 2.

I don't know if the Titanic 3 is significantly better than the original, or if the changes PE has made have kept up. It just doesn't get enough attention. I think there are other proven options, so I don't even look at these.

The RS subs are reportedly great. Zaph has measurements on his site of the RSS315HF under tidbits. I wouldn't hesitate recommending them. But, they have less xmax than say a Shiva-X or Tempest-X, so you might have to use multiples.

Shiva-X and Tempest-X. Long throw subs with XBL. I've heard CJD's 4 Tempest-X in an IB. When these drivers came out, they were really performance/$$ champ. I'm not up on things like I used to be, but this is the way I would probably go.

Rythmic - eh. Nice subs. The electronics do what they are supposed to do. But, I'm more a brute force kind of guy. I would rather lower distortion by using multiple drivers than fancy electronics. Thomas and Brian got into a spat a while back, and Rythmic products aren't really supposed to be discussed around here, because according to Rythmic's founder, we're not smart enough to discuss them.

I don't think $$ value of the TC LMS even makes it worth discussing. Again, I like brute force. For that $$, I would prefer 4 Tempest-X's.

I know you want to keep things small, but the amount of effort to build a 10", 12", or 15" sub is all the same and small differences in driver cost, so always go for the 15" driver. Besides, in a room that size, a 15" sub will disappear!

Putting on my fortune teller hat: I would buy a Tempest-X. You will probably buy a RS315 and then 2 months later buy a second one and live very happy.