New to the DIY community

[Shadow2121]

I'm new here, but having been lurking in the shadows for about a month. I came across the diy land of speaker building when searching for a new receiver and speakers. Chance had it that I came across DIY dedicated home theaters. Being as I was a carpenter, I was fascinated. But I have to start small and have to start somewhere. So speakers it is. While I don't have a grasp on a lot of it yet, I am excited to start on them. But first I'm looking for some serious advice.

First what kind of reasonable sound system would be suitable for a room like the attached picture? 11ft wide, that corner has a 4x4 jog in it. The room is also 25ft long. Ignore the setup, it can be arranged for whatever would work best.

And by sound system I mean which speakers should I shoot for? It's my opinion Statements would be an overkill for the room size. They are also slightly out of budget. I'ld like each step(Sub, Pair of speakers, center, and surrounds each) to cost around 3-400$ when finished. They are used for a mix of gaming, movies, and music(Rock/heavy metal). I have a cheap Samsung receiver now but I really like the Yamaha RX - 667.

My first sense of direction is to build a sub to get my feet wet based on what I've read. As I believe I can use it immediately with my receiver.

I believe the only thing I'm really missing from my tool box is a router(and Jasper rig 400). I'm leaning towards the Hitachi plus the MLCS bits that come with the bundle. Or maybe upgrading to the plunge base bundle combo.
That and a good Soldering Iron as I believe I either suck at it, or mine is crap.

I thank you for your opinions on anything, and can't wait to experience what you have all been enjoying. Your work is really an inspiration.

[---k---]

Welcome. It's a fun hobby. I've sort of reached the point where I'm very happy with my speakers and struggling to find a reason to build more.

First, I think most of the systems you'll find here and on many of the DIY sites will be very satisfying in your room. We just typically don't design little wimpy systems. :grin: For example, I built these for my brother: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=35905 and was very surprised at how well and easily they filled the room with sound. I could be very happy with them at mains. I'm happier with mine, and I'm sure I would be happier with the Statements too, but you know.... got to start somewhere.

Also, there are so many options. CJD's RS 150 MTM, Modula MT's all around, the AviaTrix, or Zaph ZA Kits from Madisound, or Paul Carmondy has several well documented budget speakers. His Swoop may be good. http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy Looking at all the different design options will make your head spin, figuring out which is "best" is impossible. At some point, you have to just close your eyes and throw a dart at the dartboard.

I like Hitachi tools. I own several. Good value. DeWalt are good too. I also own MLCS bits. Good enough, but I've found the Bousch spriral upcut bits from Lowes better.

For soldering with big speaker wire, get a Weller Solder Gun. Get the old fashion gun that can dump a lot of heat into the wire fast. I got a thread somewhere here about the one I got.

Good luck. Let us know how we can help.

[Shadow2121]

I would like to tackle this as a first project to start the learning process. I want to build a sub out of the enclosed pictured stand. It has an inside dimension of 23x22x16.5" How do I go about deciding what sub would be best for my needs? I plan on removing the doors and sealing it off. Raising it off the floor is an option if it were to by a downward sub. But I've been reading and cant seem to find whats best. Or whats applicable in any situation. And how do I decide if/when I need an amp?

On a slightly similar note, when it comes time to do it, is there a thread about how to test my responses? Would I need an EQ? or is there a way to hook it right to my computer?

...Sigh been reading for hours. So much info, just can't seem to put it all together. Then again I haven't started on anything yet.

[1Michael]

To be sure we understand you correctly. You want to build a left, right, center, surrounds, and a sub for $400 correct? I don't see that happening. Take that budget and build your front main speakers first. Then build a sub when more funds are available, then the center, then the surrounds in that order :T
I always recommend starting with two solid mains first, but the sub might be easier...as far as which one? What is the exact budget?

[Shadow2121]

Sorry I'll clarify a bit more, I want mains, Center, Surrounds, and Sub to each stay under 400$ a piece. So saying 1600, total is a good rough estimate. Each part to be built separately over time.

[1Michael]

That sounds better. I would allocate $600-$800 for the mains, then split the rest accordingly. See your PM about the sub.

[---k---]

I would like to tackle this as a first project to start the learning process. I want to build a sub out of the enclosed pictured stand. It has an inside dimension of 23x22x16.5" How do I go about deciding what sub would be best for my needs? I plan on removing the doors and sealing it off. Raising it off the floor is an option if it were to by a downward sub. But I've been reading and cant seem to find whats best. Or whats applicable in any situation. And how do I decide if/when I need an amp?

On a slightly similar note, when it comes time to do it, is there a thread about how to test my responses? Would I need an EQ? or is there a way to hook it right to my computer?

...Sigh been reading for hours. So much info, just can't seem to put it all together. Then again I haven't started on anything yet.

For the sub, calculate the internal volume that enclosure will give you when it is finished. Then, download a copy of Unibox. Then input the parameters for a DIYcable.com Siva-X and Tempest-X (also look at his application notes pdf) and the PE RS12 & 15" drivers. See which one models the best in your enclosure. I'm getting like 136L for the internal volume, iirc, that maybe enough for a Tempest-X sealed. It has been a while since I modeled all the different drivers. Doing the modeling is half the fun of DIY. So, enjoy. It is pretty easy.

Down fire it if you can't forward fire it or keep the driver like 8" from firing into a wall.

You will need an amp for any DIY sub. Plate amps are one option, separate pro amps like the Behringer EP-4000 can provide a lot more watts per $$.

For measuring and EQing the sub, if you have a receiver with Audessy, I wouldn't worry about it. I think it works well enough in my system that I got rid of my separate EQ. If you want to run a separate eq, like a Behringer BFD, then you should look up Room Eq Wizard. I wouldn't worry about measuring the speakers. It is too complicated to worry about unless you are going to be designing the crossovers yourself.

Yeah, lots of threads available to guide you, but the amount of options can be a bit overwhelming. Just pick something to copy and go from there.

Maybe not the best thread, but I think my first sub thread could be a good guide. http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=16774

[oneplustwo]

I bet you could get a sub design like zaph's archived one (http://www.zaphaudio.com/archives.html) to work in your "enclosure." That's actually my next project. Also, if you have an old receiver lying around (your Samsung if you get the new Yamaha), you can feed that the LFE signal for a cheapo sub amp and be well under your $400 budget. Or you can use a 250W plate amp instead of the 500W one zaph specifies. Should be plenty of power.

As for L/C/R, I would also consider the Zaph Audio ZDT 3.5. They are in your budget but a little complex for a first build. (They were my third build after the SR-71 and a ZA5 center channel.) Not undoable by any means, but if you want some experience under your belt first, you might consider doing something cheaper as your first project. The sub won't help you that much since there won't be any crossover work and the finishing will be minimal and very different given your alternative enclosure. Per others comments and yours, maybe a ZA5 2-way kit or one of Paul's Carmody's designs would fit the bill for that.

Just my 2 cents.

[Shadow2121]

Ok, a little update on where I'm at. I got the Yamaha rx667. Its Damn nice. But I got some questions that I just can't find the answers for. Any help would be appreciated.

1. HTIB passive(?) sub doesn't seem to be compatible with the Yamaha, since it doesn't appear to power it. To try and bypass this I've attempted to hook it into the sub out anyway, which obviously doesn't work. I've taken an RCA cable and from the Sub 1 preout to the analog L/R input on my old receiver(tried both left and right ones). But that don't work either, while in theory I just don't see why it wouldn't.

2. #1. will be moot when I finish my sub, which I'm itching to pull the trigger on buying the parts for. I'm attempting to use WinISD pro and Ive got the stats for the Tempest, shiva, and Dayton rss 15" loaded into it. But quite frankly, I don't know what I'm looking at. Basically what should my ideal graph look like?

3. Along those same lines would a 240 amp be enough? Does a bigger amp just increase decibels? I listen to heavy metal and need quick response, but also use it for home theater.

4. After many painful hours of trying different setups, I've learned my computer only passes 2channel stereo through hdmi. That's fine but I watch movies through my computer(to my tv). I have 4 3.5mm lines out of the rear of my computer. How do I hook these into my receiver to achieve real surround sound?

5. My enclosure is made of oak plywood 3/4". Is that sufficient for a sub? I know everyone uses mdf.

[---k---]

Efforts to get the HTIB sub to work are a waste. It needs power and often the HTIB receiver has customized eq to protect and make the sub work, which is impossible to duplicate. If you put an external amp on it, you'll likely damage the woofer.

Models are all about trade-offs. "It is called “Hoffman’s Iron Law” and it offers you any two of the following: small cabinet size, deep bass and high sensitivity." There are a few other concerns too, like protecting the driver. I like really big box size and super low tuning to protect the driver. The line should be flat and then gently roll off, and then a steep roll off. Kevin at DIYCable has some real nice application notes that include suggested designs and has all the models. Take a look at that and you'll get an idea what you want.

Maybe these would help, from the Reference Thread thread:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=19165

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php4?p=138262&postcount=2

Try modeling a few of the designs you seen others build and then play with the box size and tuning to get a feel for how they respond.

3. More Watts = Louder, until you blow up the driver. How many watts you need depends on the box you build. If it is a small sealed box, you need a lot more watts. For the drivers you're considering, to get everything out of the driver that it is capable of, you probably want to step up to a 500W amp. Again, Kevin's application notes for the Tempest have a recommendation for an Oaudio 500w amp, and that is what his models are based on.


4. That's odd. There should be something in the software that allows it to pass full dolby surround through HDMI. As for the 4 3.5mm, not sure? They are probably intended to go to active speakers. If your receiver had 5-channel input, you might be able to connect them to that, but I don't think it does. Probably would have been bad anyway. Does your computer have Coaxial out (A yellow or orange rca-style jack) or Optical Out? Coaxial would be best if you must use a computer.

5. I made my sub with high-quality plywood. It will be fine. Just brace it sufficiently.

If you're struggling, the best way to do a first project is to find copy someone else's. Find one that is well documented by someone that seems like they know what they're doing and copy it. And, I've mentioned Kevin's application notes for the Tempest and Shiva. He gives most of the info you need, so definitely consider following that.