The best midrange driver (cost no option) for 3-way

[cka3o4nuk]

Looking for best midrange driver for 3-way diy project
it must be detailed and transparent
now i own Troelы Gravesen Cyclop
and around other speakers that i listend it has the best midrange

but it was my 10th diy project so i plan my own 3.5way

the idea for new project
2 x h1411 seas in two different TL
the midrange in spherical cab or like midrange cab in B&W diamond.
and the twitter is HIQUPHON OWII in cab like B&W diamond too.

but i cant decide which midrange to use
the m15ch002 like in mine current setup or something else
maybe the ATC sm75-150?
or even accuton C90-6-078

any suggestions are welcomed

[Jed]

Do you have measurement gear and extensive crossover design experience? If not the expensive drivers won't sound nearly as good as a properly designed system using even $35 parts. My recommendation would be to practice "technique" first with lesser expensive drivers then go to the ultra high end drivers like Accuton C173-6-090, after you've developed your skills in speaker design.

Please excuse my statement above if you have extensive experience in measuring with a calibrated system, designing crossovers, etc. If that is the case the Accuton above has my vote.

[cka3o4nuk]

Please excuse my statement above if you have extensive experience in measuring with a calibrated system, designing crossovers, etc. If that is the case the Accuton above has my vote.

i ve already have measurement and xo designing so thanx about accuton ..
i am looking on accuton c-50 too
so the h1411 can go high enough

[Jonasz]

IMHO if you want the best midrange go for a dipole setup. :P

[mikec]

IMHO if you want the best midrange go for a dipole setup. :P

+1. Using active crossovers is also highly recommended.

[cjd]

+1. Using active crossovers is also highly recommended.

Or not recommended, as the case may be.

"best" is going to ramble around a lot due to many things. What frequency range do you wish to cover, what crossover slopes and points, what topology in general, how many mids per speaker...

C

[Curt C]

Good point Chris,

It's easier to design a 3 way around the mid than the other way around.

+1 on Accuton drivers in general. Pretty hard to go wrong there...

C

[cjd]

Cost no option, I'd just build a concert hall and hire a professional orchestra all for myself... I'd share, of course.

Yeah, Accuton definitely knows their stuff - they do take attention in crossing I believe. Nothing insurmountable.

[TacoD]

Audiotechnology C-Quenze 15 H 52 12 06 SDKM (special mid edition of the 15H, overhung + kapton former + updated surround)

[Jed]

Audiotechnology C-Quenze 15 H 52 12 06 SDKM (special mid edition of the 15H, overhung + kapton former + updated surround)

How long does it take to get those made and how much are they?

[TacoD]

How long does it take to get those made and how much are they?

My experience is that all drivers are made to order, they try to squeeze a small orders in the time table (small company with limited capacity). But still lead time can vary between 4 and 6 weeks.

A (old) price list, when directly ordered from Denmark, is on the website www.audiotechnology.dk. I do not know if there is a dealer in the US, but in my country they ask 230 euro/ piece for a standard 15H (which is cheaper than Accuton)

BTW, Troels used a underhung version of this driver, you can read his experiences on:

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/PRELUDE.htm

[Face]

How long does it take to get those made and how much are they?

http://solen.ca/pub/cms_nf_catalogue.php?man=3&niveau1=1&niveau2=1&niveau3=&niveau4=&origmanuf=%2Fpub%2Fcms_nf_catalogue_manuf01.php%3Fq%3DJm5pdmVhdTE9MSZuaXZlYXUyPTEmc2VjdGlvbj0yJnNvdXNfc2VjdGlvbj0xJmZ0PW5m

[mikec]

Or not recommended, as the case may be.

"best" is going to ramble around a lot due to many things. What frequency range do you wish to cover, what crossover slopes and points, what topology in general, how many mids per speaker...

C

From my prespective it seems rather silly to dismiss the inherent benefits of an active system, espeecially when the OP is talking about "cost-no-object" drivers. :roll:

[Jed]

From my prespective it seems rather silly to dismiss the inherent benefits of an active system, espeecially when the OP is talking about "cost-no-object" drivers. :roll:

But I think there is a misconception that active solutions have complete control over the drivers' transfer functions. Some do (like the DSP solution), but most/many do not. That's a severe limitation unless you know how to design a custom active crossover or have DSP software that allows the import/export of measurements from a driver mounted in the actual speaker enclosure to account for diffraction, phase, etc.

[mikec]

But I think there is a misconception that active solutions have complete control over the drivers' transfer functions. Some do (like the DSP solution), but most/many do not. That's a severe limitation unless you know how to design a custom active crossover or have DSP software that allows the import/export of measurements from a driver mounted in the actual speaker enclosure to account for diffraction, phase, etc.

Misconception? I think the misconception (if there is one) is that "active crossover" == "Behringer DCX2496" (or equivalent).

An active analog crossover can be designed and bread-boarded to implement *any* transfer curve that you can implement passively. There are also many DSP solutions available that provide the same level of freedom. The low-cost miniDSP seems to be quite popular at the moment.

[Face]

Active can be very nice, but it does have it's pitfalls. It's a PITA to haul the additional gear to a DIY event. A nice 6 channel amp is 2 to 3 times more expensive than a quality 2 channel amp. Plus the addition space and wiring required for a multi-channel or multiple amps. What if you build another pair of speakers, it makes selling your old ones more difficult. The additional analog to digital, back to analog conversion turns me off too.

[mikec]

Active can be very nice, but it does have it's pitfalls. It's a PITA to haul the additional gear to a DIY event. A nice 6 channel amp is 2 to 3 times more expensive than a quality 2 channel amp. Plus the addition space and wiring required for a multi-channel or multiple amps. What if you build another pair of speakers, it makes selling your old ones more difficult. The additional analog to digital, back to analog conversion turns me off too.

Same old arguments that are considerably offset by "cost-no-object" improved sound quality, which is what the OP is seeking.

[Saurav]

What's wrong with the DCX2496? IME, something like LspCAD does a pretty good job of working with the available 'building blocks' to hit the desired acoustic response. I don't think the overall workflow is all that different from doing a passive crossover - measure the drivers in the cabinet, load up those measurements, then go through several rounds of playing with crossover components and running the optimizer.

Seriously, if there are examples of transfer functions that it cannot implement, that can be implemented in a passive / analog crossover, I'm curious to see what those are.

If we go beyond transfer functions and start talking crossover topologies, there are some things that (AFAIK) simply cannot be done with active crossovers. Series crossovers would be the first thing that comes to mind.

[cjd]

From my prespective it seems rather silly to dismiss the inherent benefits of an active system, espeecially when the OP is talking about "cost-no-object" drivers. :roll:

From my perspective it seems rathersilly to disIt imiss the inherent drawbacks of an active system, especially when the OP is talking about "cost-no-object" drivers.

It is absolutely without question worth keeping in the list of options.

Do you have the amplification necessary? Do you have room for it? That's the basic stuff.

Do you have knowledge of building clean, noise-free circuits? That's more of a concern, and not as easy as it seems. When you get into a system that resolves every last detail, failure in something as simple as this can be hell to try to fix.

Are the tools at your disposal up to the job of designing active circuits? Do you know enough to get them right beyond following plug-n-play generic stuff?

C

[mikec]

From my perspective it seems rathersilly to disIt imiss the inherent drawbacks of an active system, especially when the OP is talking about "cost-no-object" drivers.

I can't speak for the OP, but if I were looking for the best, cost-no-object midrange driver I wouldn't be overly concerned about the cost of acquiring a few additional channels of amplification (it's as cheap as the cost of acquiring the "botique" caps and coils required to implement a passive version of the same "cost-no-object" crossover).

The tools are generally the same for active Vs passive crossover design (LSPCad, for example).

The noise issue is a non-issue if something like the miniDSP is used.

Going active for a DIY builder seems like a no-brainer to me. Buy once and reuse forever - especially when a flexible DSP crossover (miniDSP) is used.

[cjd]

Digital? Now you've taken it further from being a clear advantage.

I've never heard a side by side comparison of digital vs passive where digital was the better option.

Active is not some magic universally superior option.

I know I come across like I think it's bad, and that's not true either. I just disagree entirely with the assertion that it's clearly the one and only way to go.

C

[mikec]

Digital? Now you've taken it further from being a clear advantage.

Some of us (me included) listen to our music stored in this medium, which makes an active DSP crossover an even better solution. :W (I own a pretty nice Teres TT that I haven't used in years. Maybe I should dust it off and give it a listen).

Anyway, it appears that this topic has gone way off. Enuff said.

[cjd]

Fair 'nuff. Especially when I was just trying to say, keep all the doors open.

None of my digital sources have USB out. If they did, I'd be intrigued. Definitely a nice concept for prototyping and likely for bass integration and some other tricky stuff <40Hz... (dipole...)

[bigbardmusiq]

how about these? they do look good!

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=295-346

[Curt C]

I’m evaluating a pair of the PS220's presently. Fit and finish is first rate. Consistency between my two samples is excellent. Their high sensitivity will make them very attractive for those who require this characteristic.
Their attributes are more geared towards full range application then midrange, although I have considered the possibility of adding a tweeter for better dispersion.

On the other hand, if PE were to provide a version w/o the wizzer…

C

[Face]

I'll be picking up some soon.