Advice in selecting one of Jon's projects to build

[knifeinthesink]

I read somewhere that Jon thought his modula neoD cc design was one of his best and in the build thread someone else mentions a listening report that describes "electrostatic like clarity". Sounds good.

I'd really like to build these but, assuming I can even find a pair of tweeters, the price for two speakers is getting too high for me.

The other options that I've been considering are the m8ta, m8td3, modula mt xe, or possibly the modula mtm.

The m8td3 isn't a completed design but Jon suggested that they won't need alot of tweeking. To me its the most interesting design due to the driver choices and cool cabinet construction but I'm not sure if the design is ready to be built.

I don't have any idea how these speakers might compare to one another and I'm hoping some of you might be able to give me some advice.

As for my requirements, ideally looking for 40hz extension in a medium room, moderate sound levels for Jazz, bluegrass, etc. Equipment is mid level but I want a speaker I can keep as I upgrade to highend stuff. I have access to a large shop and an experienced wood worker and may go the cnc route if building the m8ta or m8td3. Also have measuring gear but I don't want to get into that.

I'd like to stay under $800 without cabinets.

I would listen to suggestions for projects by other designers too, but I've found Jon's projects so interesting and have always meant to build one. Since I don't have time to continue with this hobby its going to be my last chance for some time.

Any input is appreciated

Thanks


David

[fbov]

I built one of Jon's Evil Twin designs, a Modula-based MTM called NatalieP, and it held up well against more complex designs when taken to a DIY event last year. My part cost was around $200 each 2 years ago, but the tweeter's on sale right now so the price should still be close. In addition, there are 5 different XO designs available for this driver/layout combination, and Jon provides both free-standing XO (my mains) and an in-wall XO that I needed for my center. If you don't like the sound, there are lots of options....

I built my L/R towers for low-end extension, ported in 65l vs. the 28l published version. Measured driver output is dropping like a rock at 30Hz (close mic'ed, and as expected), and the port output takes over lower down. Having listened to a lot of designs at three DIY events these last couple years, nothing's been noticably better without being far more expensive, or far less flexible (eg. single-seat speakers). In fact, having done a few speaker designs, I want to build another pair of NatPs to replace my surrounds. They just sound right to me. (And I already have the tweeters.)

The only shortcoming I hear is a result of geometry; I've been experimenting with omni designs and they do highlight the fairly directional nature of the MTM. The dual drivers interfere with one another, reducing sound energy radiated toward the floor and ceiling, and increasing energy on-axis (all good things in most cases). In stereo listening, instruments are small and localized with the NatPs compared with an expansive sound stage and broad apparent source width from the omnis. The latter's spatial advantage comes at a price.

These omni's are about 8dB less sensitive, and have 1/3 the power handling capability of the MTM. When used in a multi-channel application, the imaging tightness of the MTM becomes an advantage in reproducing the spatial cues embedded in the program. None of Jon's designs you're considering are omni or open baffle, so you'd expect the spatial variation among them to be much more subtle than what I describe between an omni and an MTM.

Also be aware that there are a lot of good designers who offer their speaker designs for free, or for sale with little or no markup. Jon's one of them, but not the only one. Here's the master list.

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=211558

Have fun,
Frank

[TacoD]

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?t=211558

Have fun,
Frank

Thanks what a nice overview, but to be fair it is still difficult to pick the best design suiting your own needs. Also not all designs are that easy to duplicate.

[Hdale85]

I don't think the M8T* designs fit into your budget.

[knifeinthesink]

I don't think the M8T* designs fit into your budget.

You know, until I read your post it had never occurred to me to find out how much the m8ta cost.

Had a quick look at schematics and I calculated about 460/speaker for drivers and xo with the tdfc. Didn't include things like terminals and ports.

Well, I guess I can increase the budget and take a little more time. I didn't really put alot of thought into the number. Lets say its 1500. This would mean I could build the NeoD cc, but I still want to know more about other projects.

Thanks for the informative description Frank. I'm quite familiar with the NatP as well as the recommended projects threads. If I go that route I'd be more inclined to do the Modula MTM.


I think I should be more specific with the questions I'd like answered.

Would it be crazy to build the M8td3. Its untested as far as I know but it stems from a well proven design to begin with, if i understand correctly.

Is the m8ta on par with the neoD cc. I get the impression that it is. Having looked over the thread again to assess the cost I now have a greater understanding of what this is and it could be the right one for me. But how does it compare to others of similar cost?

Are the Modula MTM and the Modula Mt xe in the same league as these other two?

As I mentioned before, I would be open to considering projects by other designers if they seem to fit the bill.

[1Michael]

I recommend the Modula MTM...

[Bear]

The Jantzen is actually on sale this weekend, making it cheaper than the D6.8. The D6.8 is still the only truly finished design of the NeoD CC options, though. I've been meaning to build this for a while myself (parts and cabinet sitting in my house). Which option works best in someone's house will depend a fair bit on the room specifics. However, the good news is that you've got a fair bit of transparency on most designs.

For a lot less "Y" in DIY, Jed at Clearwave has some good designs with pre-built crossovers.

[knifeinthesink]

I was looking for info about a Jantzen version of the xo since I've only seen the Hivi xo version, and I came across this quote from Jon from the Ardent thread:

"I recently had an opportunity to audition Kharma Mini Exquisites at length, and though they were better than the majority of speakers I heard at RMAF, the NeoD CC's give them a fairly stiff run for the money. The Kharma's are $45,000, with Accuton drivers."

I could live with that. To bad about the tweeters but I enjoy the hunt.

Michael. Can you elaborate on your recommendation.

[Bear]

I could live with that. To bad about the tweeters but I enjoy the hunt.

I think you pinged me about my stash of D26 tweeters over at DIYAudio. I believe Jon and a few others might also be hoarding a few.

[knifeinthesink]

Yah, I was wondering if that was you. No time to deal with it today but I'll get back to you in the next couple of days. Going with the neoD cc.