crossover questions - 1st DIY

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  • andy_puiu
    Junior Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 3

    crossover questions - 1st DIY

    I have a pair of nice looking, bad sounding two way speakers (9.5"w x 10"d x 17"h). I want to replace the drivers and re-use the boxes. The woofer has 6.5 inch basket (5.5 inch diameter to outside of surround) and the tweeter is large. I can modify the baffle if necessary, but am hoping only for the tweeter.

    The reason to re-use the box is to save the time/cost of building/buying new ones. This will be my first DIY and I want something fairly easy and low cost to get my feet wet.

    I know the normal advice is to just follow an established design, and I was originally going to do the Modula MT but the crossover prices have gone up dramatically, placing these in the $325 - $350 range as far as I can tell. I've decided $200 is my limit on this first attempt. I really couldn't find anything that would work in my price range and in my cabinet, so I've decided to branch out with a unique combination.

    I've done some research into drivers, largely at Zaph's website, and have tentatively decided to order the Fountek FW168 6.5" woofers and Seas 27TDF tweeters. These are priced right (cheap), appropriately sized for my cabinets, and look relatively easy to crossover.

    Nevertheless, I'd like some assistance or at least reassurance on the crossover. The only challenge I see is a mild dip/shelf in output for the woofer, from 1700kHz - 4kHz. Zaph's Graph

    (1) How big of an issue would it be to just ignore this? Could I just throw an off-the-shelf 2kHz 12db crossover in here?
    (2) Should I try to place the crossover right at the start of this dip?
    (3) How low order a crossover can I get by with? (Since both drivers have (otherwise) good response at their extremes)
    (4) How important is it to compensate for baffle step? I think I know how to do so, but these are bookshelf speakers that will probably be placed wherever convenient - not where they will sound best.
    Last edited by andy_puiu; 30 July 2010, 16:42 Friday. Reason: fixing link
  • ThomasW
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 10933

    #2
    Here ya go...


    FW168


    27TDF
    Last edited by ThomasW; 30 July 2010, 16:46 Friday.

    IB subwoofer FAQ page


    "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

    Comment

    • andy_puiu
      Junior Member
      • Jul 2010
      • 3

      #3
      I don't see answers to any of my questions - and I don't know what this graph is. Thanks for taking the time to reply, but can you explain yourself some more?

      Comment

      • numberoneoppa
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 535

        #4
        I'm honestly not sure what Thomas is up to this time.

        1. Don't ignore it, and no, don't do that.
        2. Your link is down, so I can't comment as I'm not sure what you're talking about.
        3. Filters make my head dizzy. (I don't know)
        4. It's your project, so it's your choice. However, I believe that if you're going to do something, do it right. If somebody were to want to replicate your design in the future, it would be nice to have baffle-step worked out in the xo design.

        This response is just to hold you off until somebody who knows what they're talking about gets in here. =)
        -Josh

        That feeling when things are finally going right. Yeah, that one.

        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10933

          #5
          I loaded the plots since your link doesn't work

          Now go here and download the crossover design tools


          Here's Roman's webpage on using the tools


          If you're not planning on measuring the FR of the drivers in your baffle, you'll need to download SPL Trace and copy the FR off Zaph's plots.

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • andy_puiu
            Junior Member
            • Jul 2010
            • 3

            #6
            1st pass results

            Thomas - thanks very much for those links, they were very helpful.

            The SPL trace was pretty tedius to use, but what a useful tool. Tedius partly because I screwed up at least one trace, became suspicious and repeated all 4 over.

            Using the results of SPL trace in the Passive Crossover Designer, (which was fun) I now see that a 'stock' crossover would have been horrible.

            I came up with a couple designs using very different approaches. 1st approach lets the tweeter roll off naturally on the low end, leaving a big overlap with the woofer to help boost the volume. 2nd approach was more normal. Both resulted in pretty flat SPL (see attached pics) with a low parts count. Please take a look below and tell me what you think. Have I done anything stupid?

            I still have some concerns.
            - How does the phase look - I don't know what I want here.
            - The sensitivity is pretty low
            - The impedance is pretty low (though stays above 4 ohms)
            - The rolloff is pretty early, well above 100Hz. (I haven't played calculated any port, but will be adding that)


            BOM
            1st graph ............. 2nd graph
            (2 Low passes!) ... (more traditional)
            2.33 mH ............ 1.72 mH ____ woofer
            5.5 uF ............. 13.94 uF

            0.06 mH ........... 51.71 uF____ tweeter series
            1.37 Ohms ......... 0.15 mH

            0.02 uF ............ 13.59 uF ____ tweeter parallel
            ......... ........... 1.16 ohms __ tweeter parallel 2 (is this crazy?)
            Attached Files
            Last edited by andy_puiu; 03 August 2010, 13:19 Tuesday. Reason: trying to align BOM

            Comment

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