Just bought 2 Neo 10's!!!

[gbegland]

Ordered them off Meniscus website, but I want to call them to see what the story is with their being available finally to DIY. Just another driver to add to my testing list. Gonna have a lot of stuff for sale soon I'm afraid!

Greg - www.phatplanetstudios.com

[gbegland]

Zaph, you wanna test these? I'll send them along if you'd like.

speakerguy @ hotmail.com

Greg

[jkrutke]

Sure, I've got the baffle out right now for other stuff, good timing.

When I test that I'll also do tests with enclosed backs of various volume. Based on my experience with the Neo3, it needs a rear enclosure to keep the low end from drooping.

[Saurav]

If you can, please test it as a dipole too. I'm sure there are a few people interested in using it as a dipole midrange/midwoofer.

[gbegland]

Yeah, like me!

Greg

[Saurav]

If I did my math right, this has roughly the same surface area as a 6.5" driver. If it has the excursion / distortion performance to handle a ~250Hz XO to a woofer in free air (or mounted to a minimalist / narrow baffle), this might be a good driver for my experiments. It's narrower than a 6.5" cone, so I would hope it would maintain its dipole pattern up to a higher frequency, which would help when crossing to something like a Neo3.

[gbegland]

If they work out well, I'm planning 2 per side next to the Raal and then probably 2 AE OB15's underneath. Gonna be a fun few months!

Greg

[brucemck2]

If they work out well, I'm planning 2 per side next to the Raal and then probably 2 AE OB15's underneath. Gonna be a fun few months!

Greg

MTM horizontally above two horizontal 15s?

[gbegland]

MTM horizontally above two horizontal 15s?

No sir, the 2 Neo10s directly over each other and the Raal beside them....that's of course, only if it works out well that way.

Greg

[capslock]

Interesting. What kind of lead time did they give you?

I noticed the manufacturer according to the data sheet is now Radia Pro in PA as opposed to BGCorp. Spin off? Separate, newly founded company?

[gbegland]

Interesting. What kind of lead time did they give you?

I noticed the manufacturer according to the data sheet is now Radia Pro in PA as opposed to BGCorp. Spin off? Separate, newly founded company?

Was told they were sold out Monday morning, but that there should be more on the way in 5 days or so.

Greg

[chrismercurio]

I have a pair available for immediate sale

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/swap-meet/168805-bg-neo-10s-1-pair-available.html#post2219955

best,

Chris

[Saurav]

Did you post your measurements somewhere?

[chrismercurio]

Nope. I was under a gentleman's agreement not to share. Now that they are available...someone will post the measurements.

Best,

[Saurav]

OK, thanks, understood.

[twest820]

If I did my math right, this has roughly the same surface area as a 6.5" driver.

Lots of wiggle room on that one; the membrane's around 220cm^2 and should be fixed at two ends, for a nominal Sd around 110cm^2. The magnets and perf plate get in the way, so I'd expect closer to 50cm^s. However, the Neo10 may share the Neo8S's pleated diaphragm, in which case the Sd could be higher as more of the diaphragm could be free to move. The low end of BG's frequency ranges has historically been optimistic and the 250Hz rating is for line arrays so my guess since BG published Neo10 datasheets back in January is the Neo10s'll cross in the 400-500Hz range in point source applications. That's consistent with how BG uses them in their own speakers; Zaph's distortion measurements will give us the word.

It's narrower than a 6.5" cone, so I would hope it would maintain its dipole pattern up to a higher frequency, which would help when crossing to something like a Neo3.

Yes and no. The Neo10's certainly thinner front to back, but it's also narrower and longer. So, in the typical orientation with the long axis vertical, it offers better horizontal polars than a 6.5 and worse vertical polars. When I looked at the vertical polars for a Neo3 crossed to a Neo10 I opted to stick with the Neo8 instead. But then I'm doing a four way so for me this all comes down to where the dynamic woofer picks up from the dynamic subwoofer and crosses to a 'stat; in that context the difference between a 400Hz and a 750Hz woofer to mid cross isn't particularly significant. With a three way my guess is sacrificing some directivity at the mid to tweeter cross (even when oriented vertically the Neo10's still half a wavelength wide at 1.8kHz) to get a lower cross to a dynamic woofer would pay off.

I'd have to go back and simulate it Edge again, but as I recall the Neo10 dipole peak's somewhat higher than a 6 or 6.5. So, run nude or minimally baffled, my expectation it'll be more rolled off and hence require more equalization. Which, since the throw's shorter than a dynamic driver, is a bit of a problem when trying to cross it low in a dipole.

It's nice to see Meniscus's asking price is lower than the USD 200 per Neo10 BG quoted me but one Neo10 is still more than a pair of Neo8s. So I found it interesting to compare the Neo10 to the more or less square driver formed by mounting two Neo8s mounted side by side---the posts I dug up here on HT Guide suggested the Neo8's good to 700Hz or so, which implies a pair would reach to 500Hz. Hence there might not be all that much headroom to gain from a Neo10; it'll be interesting to see where the Neo8S comes in. If BG ever gets around to making it available, anyway.

I noticed the manufacturer according to the data sheet is now Radia Pro in PA as opposed to BGCorp. Spin off? Separate, newly founded company?

Not even a spin off in my experience. Gary at Radia Pro's routed every inquiry I've had back to folks at BG in Nevada.

When I test that I'll also do tests with enclosed backs of various volume. Based on my experience with the Neo3, it needs a rear enclosure to keep the low end from drooping.

My experience with the Neo3W---which I believe BG released after your Neo3 tests---is it's distortion limited in closed back operation and happer in dipole operation even without a baffle; my measurements of the non-PDR 3Ws are attached (HOLMImpulse is not particularly great about labeling axes; the y axis is actually THD in dB, not amplitude). The 1.3kHz distortion rise for closed back is mostly second order, but I would still cross the 3W higher when operating it closed back than in dipole. My guess here is the problem is reflection off the 3W's back cup; the damping wool BG uses looks like pretty decent stuff but the chamber's still only a few millimeters deep.

Be quite interesting to see where the Neo10's Thiele-Small parameters come in; it might or might not be better in this regard.

[gbegland]

Here's a shot to show their relative size in comparison to the rest of the Neo family.

Greg

[gbegland]

results of Zaph's testing are up on his blog.

[Saurav]

Zaph's measurements look pretty good down to about 200Hz. Not sure how well that translates into dipole use on a minimal / no baffle. Also, I'm not sure how to estimate how loud it'll play. There's no Sd and Xmax, but if I trust the spec sheet, it says 92dB/2.83V/1m averaged over 300Hz to 6kHz, and 75W AES power handling.

[b_force]

I had the same thoughts Sauray.
Nice measurements, they are similar with the measurements from magazine Hobby Hifi.
The big question is, how loud can it play?

[JonP]

Sounds like a set of distortion sweeps at increasing power levels is in order...

[twest820]

Not sure how well that translates into dipole use on a minimal / no baffle. Also, I'm not sure how to estimate how loud it'll play.

The free air Neo10 SPL is given its datasheet. Everything I've seen indicate's BG's datasheets are either honest or slightly conservative, so I see no reason question it. The Neo10's a mid, so personally I'd take its working range as 200-2000Hz, in which case the datasheet indicates 10-12dB of equalization is needed to get to flat SPL. How much volume this costs you depends on the PSD of the music that's playing, but a reasonable weighted average efficiency is 90dB. 75W would then provide around 109dB. Sufficient for most purposes.

The same analysis for the Neo8 between 300 and 2000Hz yields a more aggressive 20dB of equalization. The average efficiency is 86dB and it's rated to 20W AES, so one arrives at a max SPL of 99dB. Mostly sufficient as well, though it's probably happier run between 500-2000Hz. That brings up the average efficiency to 88dB.

Price aside, the only objection I can see to using the Neo10 as a mid is the vertical dispersion starts narrowing at 500Hz, though it's decent up to 1kHz. It's hard for me to reason about how much of a problem that might be; it's not greatly worse than the Neo8---I don't have measured data, but Edge suggests the Neo8 should hang together until 1.5kHz or so, versus 1kHz on the Neo10---and is probably better than the backwave obstruction of a dynamic woofer. Seems like one of those things where blind A/B is needed.

[CraigJ]

Good to see that Parts Express is now carrying the Bohlender Graebener Neo10 Planar.