Fun with Sketchup

[frascati]

It's really pretty easy to learn to share ideas with this stuff.

Sketchup model
DXF model

[Bear]

It's really pretty easy to learn to share ideas with this stuff.

Sketchup model
DXF model

One thing you will quickly find is that CAD tools work much, much better with a library of objects.

[frascati]

I think I understand what you mean, but I'm not certain. You mean, rather than constructing that 7" woofer from scratch, I'd import a generic speaker driver object/image and then make adjustments and additions to it?

I'm very much a beginner, but find it really interesting that I can transform something in my 'mind's eye' so readily into something another person can view on the web. I think sketchup has somewhat of the library that you mention, although surely nothing like what would be available in more fully fledged programs like autocad and autodesk.

My brother has a full version of autocad that he uses for business, and he encourages me to sit down at it and play. But for limited idea sharing, in a format that others can view and rotate and zoom with easily available software, I just find myself opening sketchup to post 3d images online. It would be very cool if more people took a couple of hours to get the basics of sketcup down in order to share ideas in forums.

I wonder though how soon I'll be wanting to transfer what I've learned to autocad. I've already been extremely frustrated with sketchup's dicey printing/scaling capability and keep running up against little annoyances that require one or another plugin fix. The chamfer, for instance, on the front baffle of that speaker could only be done on two edges. Sketchup can't handle intersecting chamfers on its own very well. That's just one of a handful irritating stumbling blocks I encountered doing relatively simple tasks.

Are there better cad tools "for dummies" out there?

[JonMarsh]

For 3D modeling for a variety of tasks, including speaker design, ViaCAD, the "hobbyist" version of the Concepts Unlimited/Shark products works well and is inexpensive, has a very large range of 3D surface and solids tools, and you can buy it from places like Amazon or the Apple store; available in Mac and Windows versions. ViaCAD pro has more realistic rendering options; SHARK has higher end CAD editing capabilities. I have both ViaCAD Pro and Shark.



I used to own and use AutoCAD, but the value proposition is not there for a hobbyist use, to say the least!

Stuff like this is straight forward to do, and it supports professional level dimensioning annotation, as well as model to sheet and multiple viewports, should you have a monitor suited to that.

[Bear]

I think I understand what you mean, but I'm not certain. You mean, rather than constructing that 7" woofer from scratch, I'd import a generic speaker driver object/image and then make adjustments and additions to it?

Or you would have a pre-built object representing a ScanSpeak 18W/8531G, down to the specifics of the frame and spider construction. However, a generic driver object is a good start.

I'm very much a beginner, but find it really interesting that I can transform something in my 'mind's eye' so readily into something another person can view on the web. I think sketchup has somewhat of the library that you mention, although surely nothing like what would be available in more fully fledged programs like autocad and autodesk.

My brother has a full version of autocad that he uses for business, and he encourages me to sit down at it and play. But for limited idea sharing, in a format that others can view and rotate and zoom with easily available software, I just find myself opening sketchup to post 3d images online. It would be very cool if more people took a couple of hours to get the basics of sketcup down in order to share ideas in forums.

I wonder though how soon I'll be wanting to transfer what I've learned to autocad. I've already been extremely frustrated with sketchup's dicey printing/scaling capability and keep running up against little annoyances that require one or another plugin fix. The chamfer, for instance, on the front baffle of that speaker could only be done on two edges. Sketchup can't handle intersecting chamfers on its own very well. That's just one of a handful irritating stumbling blocks I encountered doing relatively simple tasks.

I've never gotten the hang of sketchup. I use Visio a lot for 2D work, and Sketchup just never seemed to work the way I wanted it to. I may have to give it another shot, though. The next step is to convert the CAD image into something you can take to a CNC shop (or at least that's my goal...).

Are there better cad tools "for dummies" out there?

Jon does a lot of work here, so I'd trust his judgment.

[---k---]

I used to be an AutoCad expert, around dos version 12. I tried it recently... I'm lost now. I like SketchUp. It does things differently sometimes than I'm used to, but it is good for quick things. Probably good enough. Though, my models don't look as good as Jon's, so I may have to check out this ViaCad...

[frascati]

How about a WGPMSJR (waveguidepoormansstradjunior) :lol:

[Jed]

I used to be an AutoCad expert, around dos version 12. I tried it recently... I'm lost now. I like SketchUp. It does things differently sometimes than I'm used to, but it is good for quick things. Probably good enough. Though, my models don't look as good as Jon's, so I may have to check out this ViaCad...

Can ViaCad save files for a CNC machine?

[abpc1]

ViaCAD can export it's file system to the following formats (see image).

Most CNC software is able to read DXF files.

Regards

[frascati]

Waveguide TMM


*you guys are a tough crowd

[numberoneoppa]

I really disliked Sketchup coming from Solidworks. I think I'll stick with Solidworks.

[Bear]

Waveguide TMM


*you guys are a tough crowd

You and I are thinking frighteningly alike.

[evilskillit]

Good lookin model of the TMM. Different than the design spec, but very pretty.

[frascati]

Wow, with the explosion of computing technology you find yourself an alice in wonderland pretty quickly. I just wanted to put a semigloss layer/finish/paint on that baffle face and discovered that I needed another supplement to the program to acccomplish this. When I went looking for such a thing I quickly found myself eyeballing all sorts of lighting, reflection, opacity, shadow, and etc effects. Whew.

[FroDaddy]

Sketchup did a good job planning out my Mini Statement build.

But when I mocked up the stands in "real life", I found that proportions didn't look quite right and I needed to adjust the measurements.

I'm not sure if difference between the CAD model and real life was a Sketchup issue, or CAD in general.

[frascati]

One more possiblity with the same components (ok, you would need a neo tweeter to snug in there). An extreme departure from the principles, but a fun reworking of the same basic curves.



Might look even better with squared/rectangular base and grille.
Forgive the lack of detail on the ER18RNX. A bit beyond me yet.
Can you actually use of a mid/woofer mounted backwards this way?
And yes, the upper waveguide is held in place by make-believe.

[Space]

Maybe the curve on the upper waveguide should be inverted. Look at Bang & Olufsen omni waveguides. Those sound pretty interesting, and you can demo them at mall stores (if there's one in your area).

[frascati]

[frascati]

[frascati]

[frascati]

[Bear]

Somebody's having fun with a new toy.

[h-bar]

Frascati: For what it's worth, I share your enthusiasm for Sketchup. It's not intended to be a CAD program; I think it excels as a brainstorming platform. I use CAD software (Vectorworks and AutoCAD) when accuracy is crucial, but find that the interface of most CAD software gets in the way when I'm just playing with ideas. That's where Sketchup really comes into its own.

Love the Easter Island speaker stands!
h-bar

[frascati]

That was very much the point (hope?) of the thread. Obviously fully fledged CAD is going to be superior on any grounds except that ease of entry and use. Anyone can download sketchup and install it on a high speed connection in less than two minutes tops. Another hour of playing with the basic toolset and users with no formal CAD training at all can share ideas in ways previously limited to photographs of scratch pads or wooden mockups. You can even alter the original and bounce it right back for suggestions.

The aesthetic side of diyaudio design is pretty conservative. That's mostly due perhaps to the limited options available in the home shop for reproducing another's wild imaginings. But that's only part of it. There is actually quite a bit beyond the common breadbox that represents 99 percent of projects on the web that a builder could accomplish with only a little more effort. Some of the recent "trans-lam" projects are good examples. Or the teardrop profiled cabinets from PE. If more people were basically familair with sketchup then the artistic side of design might take off a bit. As long as people resist (as i failed entirely to do above) the temptation to screw with another's previously perfected designs ops: (iv'e read their FAQs. i know it's frustrating. i'm sincerly sorry) In fact I emailed the image of that TMM off to Troels Gravesen with a mention of his inspiration via the poor man's strad. I recieved a very tepid one line, "I'm glad you like my site". I'm sure Zaph is not much happier about it. I"m learning.

You mentioned 'playing with ideas'. I've always been very good at constructing entire projects with my mind's 'eye'. I'm probably not the only guy here who's been accused of "staring off into space" at times. But a program like sketchup can be a powerful extension of that 'eye'. I can imagine, for instance, the stand beneath a speaker, and then widen it by an inch in my mind to get a better impression of the balance in the final dimension. But doing the same thing in sketchup is many times more effective in tweaking and arriving at a visual balance that works before you start cutting wood. That first image of the TM on a stand above looked a little 'clunky' to me. I narrowed the base by about an inch and played with a few slopes on the front and rear edges and then resaved the file. That would be less likely to have been the result if I'd simply imagined the project in my head and then starting cutting wood.

And about that beer can. I wish, I wish, I wish, we had a law about providing a reference scale when uploading images on the web. I visited a website once that sold used and surplus scientific equipment. Every single one of the many hundreds of images on the site included a coke can. It was brilliant! (not brilliant enough perhaps. i went back just now and found a blank page with the domain url for sale!)

[Undefinition]

The aesthetic side of diyaudio design is pretty conservative. That's mostly due perhaps to the limited options available in the home shop for reproducing another's wild imaginings. But that's only part of it. There is actually quite a bit beyond the common breadbox that represents 99 percent of projects on the web that a builder could accomplish with only a little more effort. Some of the recent "trans-lam" projects are good examples. Or the teardrop profiled cabinets from PE. If more people were basically familair with sketchup then the artistic side of design might take off a bit. As long as people resist (as i failed entirely to do above) the temptation to screw with another's previously perfected designs ops: (iv'e read their FAQs. i know it's frustrating. i'm sincerly sorry) In fact I emailed the image of that TMM off to Troels Gravesen with a mention of his inspiration via the poor man's strad. I recieved a very tepid one line, "I'm glad you like my site". I'm sure Zaph is not much happier about it. I"m learning.

Yeah, as you may be finding out, changing the baffle shape or dimensions affects frequency response and baffle step loss. I'm sure you can understand why designers are protective of that.

But still, you have all these great ideas, I say just build it. If you're afraid of the XO work involved, have a fellow like myself or some other HTGuide or PE board member help you out with simulating/measuring/modling it. heck, anyone in the Chicagoland area is free to build the weirdest speaker possible, and I'll do a crossover for it. We all have our strengths--for some it's building, for me it's XO design. I enjoy XO design far more than cabinetry.

But still, when I got into the hobby I was "mentored" by Andy G, which really inspired me to not want to just make boxes. Lately, my designs have been more mainstream (eg: boxes) because people find them easier to build. But I still think unusual designs are fundamentally cooler. I just don't have the time for weird one-off designs anymore :cry: (but if anyone in the area wants to, see above... )

[dsrviola]

Re: Undefinition

Paul,

I just read your Audio Manifesto. As a professional orchestral musician (aka: starving artist) and audiophool, my response is "Bravo!"