Room Volume & speaker recommendation

[gregnash]

So I have been doing a lot of reading and keep flopping around between building a pair of the Nat P's, Statement Monitors, RS TMWW Towers, or Zaph ZDT3.5's. However, I am a bit concerned with what will best fit my room? As we have only been in the house for a year and a half, we do not plan to move anytime soon. I am in the process of finalizing the design for my new media bench/entertainment center and will likely begin building that after the 15th.

Notes: Room opens up on far right to kitchen, hallway leads to rest of house. All ceilings are 8ft tall, flat ceilings (there is no vaulting).

Here is my Google Sketchup of the room with some of the furniture (media bench will go between speakers and be 70"L x 22"H x 18"D). Information on the build can be found in this thread (sorry haven't updated recently with new design)....

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36146

[dmalphur]

I have a suggestion that would apply to any of your choices. If it is possible and amenable to your living environment, it would be preferable to rotate your setup 90 degrees, with the TV and speakers on the long wall (167") and the sofa in the open space between the living area and the dining area.

The reason for this recommendation is two fold.

1. The speakers will have similar boundaries on the left and right side, making the reflected field response more similar and improving the imaging of the speakers.

2. The couch will not be on a boundary, which degrades both the bass performance and spaciousness of the perceived sound.

-David

[ThomasW]

+1...

[JonMarsh]

+11

(yes, that means turn it up to 11). :W

[gregnash]

Unfortunately, I have already tried that but the WAF has given a negative for that... Also, the couch that is in there, while L-shaped like ours, is not the right size and the left side comes out about another 18" towards the speakers.

[---k---]

I anticipated that. We'll proceed knowing that it can sound good, real good. Just know that it won't be audiophile-theory perfect. My room isn't perfect either.... it is what it is.

Of the speakers you're discussing, I see insignificant differences in the way they will interact with the room. They are all solid designs. Each have minor trade-offs. And then each has minor voicing variations due to the designers.

To break them down in BROAD OVERSIMPLIFYING TERMS, lets look at the NatP versus the RS TMWW. We'll the Nat P has two 7" midrange drivers versus 1 6" Midrange. Theoretically, this will give the NatP more output potential in the frequencies handled by the midrange driver. It should be able to play louder, cleaner. The NatP not having dedicated woofers might start to eat into this advantage as the midrange is asked to play bass, but once you introduce a subwoofer this negative is gone. But, without a subwoofer the RS TMWW might start to produce a littlemore distortion in the midrange, but they will have a lot more bass capability due to the pair of 8" woofers. Pick your poison. Tweeter is basically the same.

The Zaph ZDT3.5 is similar to the RS TMWW. It has a lesser quality tweeter, but still a good one. The mid is a extremely low distortion (high quality) 2" mid dome. It is used over a much smaller range than the mids in the other designs, so it isn't pushed as hard and capabilities acceptable. Then it has pair of 7" woofers (the same used as mids in the NatP). So, probably has great mids and good bass capability, but probably not quite as much spl and depth capability as the RS TMWW.

The Statement Monitor is a bit of a different beast. The others all used basically Dayton RS drivers and dome tweeters. To start, the Monitor has a ribbon tweeter. Some love them, some don't. I thought the statements sounded good. It has a single smaller 4" midrange, so it won't have the SPL capabilities of the previous two designs here. But it is a very high quality mid, nice sounding mid. Many prefer the sound of it to the RS drivers. The bass is provided by a dedicated 7" woofer. So, it has some advantages over a simple 2-way in capability to reproduce, but looses some to the systems with dual woofers. And not to be forgotten is the magic in the open back mid. I hate descriptions, but I would say the Monitor is a step up in quality but down in pure spl capabilities. Not a speaker I would choose for a frat house.

But, I've seen people quite happy with a simple 5.1 system consisting of a simple 2-way TM using a 6" woofer. So, I would hesitate to get caught up in making spl capabilities the ultimate factor. I think all of these will fill that room well enough.

I don't see your massive subwoofers shown in your sketchup. Subs are a must for movies - period.

If you can't decide, and can't find anyone to listen to theirs. Put the list on a dart board and throw. You can always build your second option in two years, when you have to scratch the itch again.

[gregnash]

Thanks for the breakdown K it is much appreciated...
With what you are saying I am going to want to couple just about any of these with a good subwoofer. I was "hoping" (or maybe the wife was) to keep the budget for the speakers around $600 for the pair, knowing that cost of materials does not play into that. Due to room size, location, etc. I would attempt to put the sub in the left corner near the left tower however, I have a feeling that will not fly.

So the next place would be next to the couch between the wall and the couch. Size is of consideration due to WAF so I would look at building probably a 12" or 15" sealed enclosure that would reach to 20hz. So eventually it would turn into a 2.1 system, or maybe a 3.1 with center?.

[---k---]

Yeah. Do what you can. It is a long journey. The thing is that movies today are having 10 - 20 hz sound effects. It's not that you need to hear that, and movies can be enjoyable without a sub, but I've heard of people bottoming their speakers without a sub. You can probably overdrive these if you drive them hard. Just go easy on them with movies that have big sound effects.

Without corners for subs, some would recommend the smaller NatP or Statement Monitors and eventually build a pair of subwoofers as stands. :twisted:

[cjd]

Don't forget that any of the Statement series with the open back NEED to be out from the wall at LEAST 14 inches (that's from wall to the back of the speaker). If you can pull that off though,

Another option for you that's not quite completed (so we're not quite sure where the cost will land but it should be in the $600 ballpark) if you're up to a little more fun in the box: the Ansonica. And that will reach well into the 20Hz range (though it's SPL limited due to excursion, in that size room it still would rock far louder than my wife would ever let me play music/movies at... so, YMMV). It's a bit smaller in size and I think a definite step down in visual impact vs some of the other options. Also, at 36" tall you can probably get away with 3 identical speakers across the front. Quite ideal.

C

[---k---]

Oooh yeah! No one is talking about them yet, because they aren't finished, but... Yeah, they may make me rescind my "must have a sub for movies" comments.

[gregnash]

Well I await to see more information on these Ansonica!!!!! As I do not plan to build the speakers until probably end of the summer I still have some time to make a decision. Again, I do not "plan" but things can change...

Here is an updated version of the front room with a corrected version of the couch and media bench added.

[Paul W]

I agree rotating the room 90* for imaging across the front, as well as gaining space behind (a different) sofa or chairs, would be much better than band-aids...but... The reflective surface of the wall and window so close to your head is also problematic. You don't want a diffuser across the window, so maybe thick/heavy curtains would be better than nothing. Maybe a nice (deep) decorative absorber or two on the left side of the room.

What is in the rooms outside the interior walls? You might be able to gain some WAF points with an IB sub firing into an adjacent closet/room, ceiling, or basement/crawl space.

Rather than spend money on room treatments, consider a jewelry purchase :W

[gregnash]

The windows actually do have relatively heavy, old full fabric curtains that I am sure will do a good job of diffusion. Again, the rotation of the room is a no go but I may "attempt to see how things look" when I build the new media bench and move everything around.

So from what everyone is telling me, should I not be able to do the room rotation, I would want to do either a pair of the Nat P's (budget) or RS TMWW (Mid budget) for speakers, and/or possibly wait for the Ansonica's!

[cjd]

Hang on... why are building a media bench? It appears the TV is wall-mounted, in which case you have no good reason for such a bench, but plenty of good reason to NOT build it (it would limit you to the far less ideal horizontal center channel placement for one)

[gregnash]

Hang on... why are building a media bench? It appears the TV is wall-mounted, in which case you have no good reason for such a bench, but plenty of good reason to NOT build it (it would limit you to the far less ideal horizontal center channel placement for one)

See this thread for full explanation!!! :B :twisted:

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36146