Budget slim 3-way tower

[BurtonSnol3o]

I was just curious if there were any projects out there that were a budget 3-way. (3-400 dollars) I was thinking something similar to the TriTrix in driver/crossover quality but with actual midrange drivers and some woofers.

I really like the Lineup Maxx L16, but the drivers are out of my price range. I really like the look of the tall thinner tower with multiple drivers. I have seen some retail products like these for under 800 including towers. I was thinking if anyone knew what types of drivers/crossovers they were running, they should be able to be DIY'd for less than half of that. I don't need perfectly flat responses, but I dont need 10 db nodes either. I was just curious if something was out there that I haven't come across.

[cjd]

In all honesty, going 3-way jacks up the price so much I'd say you may be pushing a bit much on compromise. Though do-able. A 2.5.5 way with 6 mid-woofers would be more reasonable IMO.

Where are you located? Maybe we can find someone that does measurements in your area so you can do a custom piece.

[Undefinition]

Everyone who's built these loves them. Very easy on the pocketbook. Good choice of drivers.

http://www.lonesaguaro.com/speakers/shtick/Shtick.html

[cjd]

nifty little project.

[BurtonSnol3o]

A 2.5 way would be fine too. The cheapest 2.5 way i've seen are the new za5 kits. Their 2.5 way runs about 450. Thanks for the info on the Shtick's. Are all those drivers still available? It seems that website hasn't been updated in over a year. Just curious if the current drivers would work with those crossovers.

[numberoneoppa]

A 2.5 way would be fine too. The cheapest 2.5 way i've seen are the new za5 kits. Their 2.5 way runs about 450. Thanks for the info on the Shtick's. Are all those drivers still available? It seems that website hasn't been updated in over a year. Just curious if the current drivers would work with those crossovers.

Yeah, the drivers are available, assuming you use the B3S/N instead of the A3N it was originally designed with. [Pictures on the site feature B3S]

[BurtonSnol3o]

Which of these designs would you guys recommend for movie playback (or any others). Also, I tend to prefer "bright" speakers if that makes any difference. I also will be crossing these with a Energy S10.2 sub. This is for a family room where several seating positions are 30+degress off-axis, so if any designs lend themselves to better off axis response let me know.

I'm really just looking to upgrade my worthless $50 polk bookshelf speakers so they don't need to be fantastic. Also, if there are any designs with a center channel design as well that would be a huge plus.

[oneplustwo]

I second the zaph za5 as a good way to go. I actually just ordered the center channel kit myself. There's also the ZDT designs from Zaph. A little more money though.

[dsrviola]

+1 on the Shtick build. Built a pair for my sister's wedding gift. They're stupid good for the money

[BurtonSnol3o]

These Schtick's look right up my alley. I don't see too much documentation on the Shtick's other than on Lou's page. Has there ever been a center for those speakers? I would like to try and stay away from the bose buster because of my wide listening angles. Would it be possible to build the center as 2 separate boxes so they would fit on my tv stand? I was thinking a top box with just the tweeter and midrange, and then on the bottom run something like the WMW. The mids would stay on the same vertical plane similar to an mtm standing upright. I just cant accommodate the full mtm. I could also do something like a W(mt)W center if you guys though that'd be better. Just looking for ideas. Also, if anyone has any other ideas just throw them out. I'm not sold on a 3-way, so if you see a reason to go 2.5 or 2 way, go for it.

The zaph kits look great, but id be scared of the mtm center that goes with them.

CJD, did you have any projects in mind when you suggested "A 2.5.5 way with 6 mid-woofers"

[oneplustwo]

What scares you about MTM? Zaph has designed the crossover to make it as appropriate as possible for center channel use.

[cjd]

CJD, did you have any projects in mind when you suggested "A 2.5.5 way with 6 mid-woofers"

Nope, beyond immediately having potential driver options run through my head.

Also, if you like "bright" sound you may not find it in most DIY efforts - don't worry too much about this as most folks discover they don't really like bright, they only think they do because they're used to it. You'll come to enjoy the flatter response most DIY projects provide, and your ears in particular - you'll end up with far less fatigue.

[fbov]

I was just curious if there were any projects out there that were a budget 3-way. (3-400 dollars) ...

+1 on the Shticks from your description. If you're not married to a tall, thin 3-way, let me as the basic questions:

What are you trying to do?
- how loud
- in how big a room
- with what level of quality
- and what sort of usage (HT/music)
- and what sort of amp
- in the $300-400 range.

Cost, quality and sound level are the speaker tradeoff triad - you can have any 2 you want. The key with DIY is that the cost is far lower than retail, but the same tradeoff applies.

Have fun,
Frank

[BurtonSnol3o]

+1 on the Shticks from your description. If you're not married to a tall, thin 3-way, let me as the basic questions:

What are you trying to do?
- how loud
- in how big a room
- with what level of quality
- and what sort of usage (HT/music)
- and what sort of amp
- in the $300-400 range.

Cost, quality and sound level are the speaker tradeoff triad - you can have any 2 you want. The key with DIY is that the cost is far lower than retail, but the same tradeoff applies.

Have fun,
Frank

Thanks for the help...
+Loud is always good, but I don't need to blow my ears out. When I get a dedicated theater area I'll be building a nicer set.
+The room is 18x24 with cathedral ceilings.
+level of quality is something I can take a hit on. I'm not audiophile and I never have owned high dollar equipment. I just want it to sound decent from all listening positions.
+usage will be 99% movies and TV. Very little music.
+Currently using a lower level pioneer amp. I'll be upgrading hopefully to something a little more stout if this can't handle it.

I was just thinking the tall, thin towers looked nicer and high waf keeps me happy as well. I didn't think I needed 8+inch woofers as I already have a pretty decent sub.

[BurtonSnol3o]

What scares you about MTM? Zaph has designed the crossover to make it as appropriate as possible for center channel use.

I'm building these for a "family room" where i have listening positions up to 40 degrees off axis, and I've heard that horizontal MTMs are notoriously bad off axis and I'd rather go even with a smaller MT to avoid that problem. That's why I started brainstorming about possibly making 2 separate boxes for the center channel.

[dmalphur]

The driver spacing on the Zaph 5.3c and the crossover frequency are such that horizontal lobing is minimized, but at 40 degrees off of center you are probably best going with a center with a vertical TM.



Based on my experience with the ZMV5's I wouldn't hesistate to recommend the ZA5 line of speakers otherwise.

-David

[BurtonSnol3o]

Thank you all for your responses. I have looked around at many speaker designs, but I know there are tons of designs not over on the mission accomplished sticky. If anyone knows of other designs just let me know.

dmalphur:
Thanks for the response. Do you all recommend just getting the pre-made crossovers instead of trying to build my own? Also, do you think I should go with the TMM tower or the MTMMM? I also might be able to go with smaller TMs and also get the MTM center channel. Later on down the road I could move the TMs to surround duty and upgrade up front. Do the zaph drivers typically stay available for a while?

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Cinderella.html

What about these?

[Jim Holtz]

I really like the Lineup Maxx L16, but the drivers are out of my price range. I really like the look of the tall thinner tower with multiple drivers. I have seen some retail products like these for under 800 including towers. I was thinking if anyone knew what types of drivers/crossovers they were running, they should be able to be DIY'd for less than half of that. I don't need perfectly flat responses, but I dont need 10 db nodes either. I was just curious if something was out there that I haven't come across.

Just curious if you've talked to Jed. He has a lot of great designs and is receptive to custom designs that would meet your criteria. It might be worth an email to discuss exactly what you have in mind.

Jim

[Jed]

Just curious if you've talked to Jed. He has a lot of great designs and is receptive to custom designs that would meet your criteria. It might be worth an email to discuss exactly what you have in mind.

Jim

Thanks Jim. For a budget of 300-400 I usually recommend going with a 2-way to open up the possibilities of better quality drivers. Crossovers alone for a good 3 way can cost 100% of that budget or more.

[Jim Holtz]

Thanks Jim. For a budget of 300-400 I usually recommend going with a 2-way to open up the possibilities of better quality drivers. Crossovers alone for a good 3 way can cost 100% of that budget or more.

That's the problem with a $400 budget for a 3-way. Driver cost has to remain in the $30 - $40 per driver range after factoring in the cost of the crossover. If the OP could spend $500, the field opens up somewhat.

Jim

[BurtonSnol3o]

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Cinderella.html

What about these?

Could the cinderellas be altered to have a side-firing woofer?

On the other hand, would it be better to buy the Zaph pre-made crossovers or build my own if I went that route?

[BurtonSnol3o]

Thanks Jim. For a budget of 300-400 I usually recommend going with a 2-way to open up the possibilities of better quality drivers. Crossovers alone for a good 3 way can cost 100% of that budget or more.

Could you suggest some 2-ways that I could make some towers out of? I'd like to keep baffle width about 6.5'' or less if possible.

[oneplustwo]

Could you suggest some 2-ways that I could make some towers out of? I'd like to keep baffle width about 6.5'' or less if possible.

Since we've been talking about the ZA5, you could build the ZA5 2 way and modify the enclosure slightly. As described on the website, baffle width is 8.0". But if you narrow it up to 6.5" and either make it a little taller or deeper to compensate, you should be ok. Actually, now that I've looked at the driver mounting detail, 6.5" is too aggressive... the woofer frame won't clear the top and bottom. 7.0" you could do for sure. Actually, my ZA5 center channel kit should be here today and I'll be cutting the baffles for it on my own 7" high (wide) enclosure.

[Jed]

Could you suggest some 2-ways that I could make some towers out of? I'd like to keep baffle width about 6.5'' or less if possible.

The zaph kit drivers look pretty hard to beat for a narrow speaker that is in your price range, although changing the stock width from 8" to 6.5" would change the FR a bit from the original design.

[BurtonSnol3o]

Any thoughts on taking the "Bose Buster" CC and turning it into a tower? I know there were problems with the box being too small to be ideal when they made that CC. Maybe I could build them into a tower and give them the space they need.

Have there been any tower projects done with the M5n or M6n?

[Undefinition]

Have there been any tower projects done with the M5n or M6n?

These can be built as a tower. In fact, building them as a tower would be optimal; with more box volume, these HiVi M5a can play some wicked low bass. I did a bookshelf because of design constraints.

[BurtonSnol3o]

These can be built as a tower. In fact, building them as a tower would be optimal; with more box volume, these HiVi M5a can play some wicked low bass. I did a bookshelf because of design constraints.

That looks like a very promising design. What would need to be changed to the port and crossover if I wanted to build a tower? I know it wouldn't be ideal, but could I build that with the front baffle somewhere around 7 inches wide? Would the crossover need to be completely reworked?

[evilskillit]

I think just about any 2 way bookshelf can be built as a tower either with a larger, lower tuned volume. Or with the space in the bottom sectioned off and filled with ballast. Or if you're feeling frisky you could make it a transmission line instead.

For some reason, even tho I have no use for it, I want to build a pair of Lou C's Cryolites as a tall skinny floor standing unit and make it a transmission line.

[Undefinition]

That looks like a very promising design. What would need to be changed to the port and crossover if I wanted to build a tower? I know it wouldn't be ideal, but could I build that with the front baffle somewhere around 7 inches wide? Would the crossover need to be completely reworked?

Let's say you built the cabinet twice as big, 44 Liters, and tuned to 39 Hz (3" diameter vent, 5.25" long). You will get an F3 of 33 Hz, which is definitely enough to turn heads. Approximate external cabinet dimensions would be 44"h x 8"w x 11"d. I'd highly recommend leaving the baffle at 8", although you could probably do 7.5" wide... but then the cabinet would have to be deeper--have to get that internal volume somehow. I don't think the crossover would have to be modified.

[BurtonSnol3o]

Let's say you built the cabinet twice as big, 44 Liters, and tuned to 39 Hz (3" diameter vent, 5.25" long). You will get an F3 of 33 Hz, which is definitely enough to turn heads. Approximate external cabinet dimensions would be 44"h x 8"w x 11"d. I'd highly recommend leaving the baffle at 8", although you could probably do 7.5" wide... but then the cabinet would have to be deeper--have to get that internal volume somehow. I don't think the crossover would have to be modified.

Thanks, why wouldn't you go to a 7" baffle? I was thinking of going as small as possible for a few reasons. First, it should (i think) increase dispersion which should help off axis listeners. Secondly, it looks better, and pleasing the wife is always a plus. I was thinking that the BSC would have to be changed on the crossover because of the smaller baffle width. Hopefully given that the crossover is quite simple, one of the more experienced guys could tell me which values to change. Shouldn't be as hard as modifying some of the more complex crossovers.

[---k---]

Everyone forgot this question: Why do you want a 3-way? Do you have a sub? At the low end of the price scale, a good pair of 2-ways with a subwoofer can be better than a 3-way.

[BurtonSnol3o]

Everyone forgot this question: Why do you want a 3-way? Do you have a sub? At the low end of the price scale, a good pair of 2-ways with a subwoofer can be better than a 3-way.

I was thinking of a 3-way because some of the designs I liked were 3-ways. I don't have any acoustical reasoning to build the 3-way. It seems that within my budget a better quality 2-way might be the better choice.

I'll be crossing these to a Energy 10.2 sub probably somewhere around 80-100.

[Jim Holtz]

Well, FWIW, if you can spend $500, I'd recommend you look at the Statements Monitors. I think they're hard to beat in that price range.

Jim

[BurtonSnol3o]

Well, FWIW, if you can spend $500, I'd recommend you look at the Statements Monitors. I think they're hard to beat in that price range.

Jim

I really do like the statements and considered them, but the open-back mids scare me a bit. My listening area is less than optimal (tv is in the corner of the room) and the speakers will be closer to the wall than I would like. That is why i was thinking something with a smaller baffle would sound less localizd, and better for my application. I may do the statements when I get a dedicated room.

[Undefinition]

First, it should (i think) increase dispersion which should help off axis listeners.

No.

Secondly, it looks better, and pleasing the wife is always a plus. .

For a thinner look, I recommend using a roundover or chamfer on the front baffle.

[BurtonSnol3o]

No.


For a thinner look, I recommend using a roundover or chamfer on the front baffle.

Thanks for the idea on a roundover or chamfer. I may have to end up going that route. I was basing my ideas on the narrow baffle from this forum post. If I can't find a way to modify the crossover for this m6n MTM 2-way, I guess i'll just go with the roundover. It seems most designs have a baffle about 2 inches larger than the largest driver, and this one has 3. I really like how this design is front ported as well as having some good looking drivers.

If anyone wants to help out with modifying the crossover/port for a narrower baffle and a larger cabinet, just let me know.