I happen to have two 220 liter box's that are ported with a single 6" port to about 18 hz. Right now I have a tempest in each and am pretty happy with their performace but like most people I would love some more gut wrenching bassops: With that in mind if I sold one of the box's and replaced the driver in the other with a tumult how would it compare to the dual tempests? i.e. does a single tumult beat dual tempests?
Tempest vs Tumult
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From a simple Vd standpoint, a Tumult moves approx. twice as much air a Tempest. If I recall correctly from the original Tumult "genesis" thread, however, the XBL2 motor will allow a Tumult to equal the output of almost three Tempests if a 10% THD limit is imposed (it's more linear as it approaches Xmax).
Your case involves more than this, of course, since your dual Tempests have twice the porting that a single Tumult would if retrofitted in one of your enclosures. Still, might be worth a try if the port has the large Aeroport flares and you stay below 800 watts or so. If not, then port noise and compression may be an issue before you get to levels you've come to expect from the Tempests (and certainly before nearing the limit of the driver itself. This will be the case with every attempt to port the Tumult, I think. This driver really wants PR boxes or to be sealed preferably with some eq/LT applied).
The Tumult would not be as rolled-off as the Tempests, either, and in fact would have a bit of a hump at tuning. You might lengthen the port a bit to get a little lower.- Bottom
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You could try an AV15 with ~500 watts. About the same output as 2 Tempests. Still some port speed issues, but not as bad as the Tumult.
I have to admit, there is something about running 2 drivers that make them sound better than just 1, even at moderate SPLs.
Pete- Bottom
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If you want bargain basement gut wrenching bass, grab a couple of the close out BP-1503 $175ea. Put them in boxes like the AS-15 or Pete's ported tube design or PR IF you must have small box. Then apply a big amp.....This combo will literally shake an entire house at 18Hz
theAudioWorx
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Man, I didn't realize there were still BPD1503's to be had... holy cow....
I thought those were all gone.
Forget porting, just build a sonotube monster like Thomas's dual BPD1503, one top, one bottom, sealed, with EQ. That will move some serious air, and avoid the group delay issues and unloading at very low frequencies you can encounter with the PR's.
Hmmm, wonder if I can change my line array design to use BPD1503's on the bottom? I'll have about 650 watts to drive each one....
I think the Tumult is pretty cool, but forget porting it- and keep in mind, you can almost buy three BPD1503's for the price of one Tumult. Not that it isn't cool... in that class, I'd have to look closely at the Aurasounds, too.
~Jon
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Jon, have you measured any of the Aurasounds, or seen any independent measurements? Their Xmax figures look, errrrrr, optimistic given the published gap length and VC length. Their Xmax looks more like Xsus to me. But then maybe I don't completely understand how an underhung VC works.
I'd also like to see what the cone breakup looks like. Extrapolating from the Seas distortion charts, I'd think you wouldn't want to cross most metal cones much above 1/4 of the main breakup peak. If you go as high as 1/3, you get a big increase in 3rd order distortion, which can't be trapped out, and 3rd order stuff is that "bad" "digital sounding" distortion as opposed to "good" "tubey" 2nd order stuff.- Bottom
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I have some of the same conerns as you do, but I also have heard some positive things from "reliable" listeners. The one's I'm most inerested in are their "baby" models, the 10" and 12". Here, the reputed breakup mode is well over 1 kHz, so using them up to 250 to 350 Hz shouldn't be a problem- possibly even higher, though I wouldn't go over 600 Hz due to wavelegnth issues relative to diameter. The NS10-513 and it's big brother are sort of interesting drivers, kind of half way in between more conventional woofers and the "long throw" drivers we turn to for high output subs. For this reason, they're intersting to me for a wide range speaker. I have plans to rebuild the top sections of my X1 SLAMs with W18s and a 1.8 kHz crossover; since I'm biamped, it might be interesting to build new botom end cabinets, maybe with dual 12's instead of the 12 and 15" Audax I'm now using; might be a little smaller and easier to move around. But, it's not a high priority, just a musing at this time.
My source for the Hales Tweeters I'm using in my current project is a systems engineer with Aurasound, so we've had a few intresting conversations re the drivers and their performance- obviously, he's pretty sold on them, but his comments and opinions about other manufacturer's drivers are knoweldgable and insightful, so he has some credibility with me. Later this year I may get caught up enough with things to try them out. Maybe MUCH later this year! :W
~Jon
Earth First!
_______________________________
We'll screw up the other planets later....the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
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