Sanity check on the M.A. designs out there

[stgdz]

So this is my current HT setup

Its D3's, Unicc, and d2 speakers, the room is 15x18 so its close to being a square with my listening distance of 11 and 17' from the speakers. I am currently building a THT sub to go into one of the corners. I am pretty happy with the classic series drivers but just want that little extra that I can get out of the reference series drivers from dayton.

The speakers lack just a little detail for me to notice while everyone else thinks the sound setup that I have is awesome! I use a 1205 parasound amp and a 56w gain clone for the surrounds (the parasound powers my two 10" subs). I would really like to spend no more then $600 on the fronts, $400 on the center and maybe $500 for 4 surrounds. The three designs that I am looking at are the

ZDT's for fronts and center
Statements and frodady's center
Mini Statements and frodady's center
Modula MT for surrounds or cjd's surround design.


The statements stick out as probably the one that will make the biggest difference from my current setup and they are out of my price range, the mini's and the ZDT's fall inline also. I love towers though, I just love the look and size of them. I was originaly going to include the rs towers in there but the bom's haven't been adjusted for prices in awhile and it looks like they would fit somewhere between the statements and the mini statements in price.

I am leaning a bit towards the statements and just doing the buy once cry once thing, but are they the best for a pure HT speakers?

[numberoneoppa]

Judging by where the walls are -err...- should be, something tells me that you might get more recommendations for speakers like the Khanspires that were designed with close proximity to walls in mind (especially rear walls). However, if the speakers maintained a distance of 18" from the back wall, maybe the Statements would work. From what I've read, they're superb speakers if the room agrees with them. Let's wait for Jim to chime in.

In a nutshell, from the thread's I've read (and yes, I'm just rehashing stuff I've read):
-close proximity to walls: Khanspires
-distance between speakers and walls: Statements.
[Assuming you were looking at those two pair of speakers, I don't know anything about the ZDTs or much about the Modula MT]

[Jim Holtz]

The three designs that I am looking at are the

ZDT's for fronts and center
Statements and frodady's center
Mini Statements and frodady's center
Modula MT for surrounds or cjd's surround design.


The statements stick out as probably the one that will make the biggest difference from my current setup and they are out of my price range, the mini's and the ZDT's fall inline also. I love towers though, I just love the look and size of them. I was originaly going to include the rs towers in there but the bom's haven't been adjusted for prices in awhile and it looks like they would fit somewhere between the statements and the mini statements in price.

I am leaning a bit towards the statements and just doing the buy once cry once thing, but are they the best for a pure HT speakers?

The Statements and the Mini's will both do a fine job and give you the dynamics you're looking for. They do require around 18" clearance between the wall behind and the back of the speakers. That also applies to your screen.

If placement is a problem, the Khanspires or RS 3-ways would be excellent choices. Jed also has some designs that would work really well. Check out ERSE for crossover parts. It'll save you some money. I recently updated all of the Statements series BOM's so prices should be accurate.

Good luck!

Jim

[stgdz]

The Statements and the Mini's will both do a fine job and give you the dynamics you're looking for. They do require around 18" clearance between the wall behind and the back of the speakers. That also applies to your screen.

If placement is a problem, the Khanspires or RS 3-ways would be excellent choices. Jed also has some designs that would work really well. Check out ERSE for crossover parts. It'll save you some money. I recently updated all of the Statements series BOM's so prices should be accurate.

Good luck!

Jim

thanks Jim, I currently have my d3's about 18" from the back of the speaker to where the wall is going to be. The thing I am wondering about is the tuba subwoofer is 36x36x24 that height is pretty close to the bottom mid range tunnel. There is about 36" of wall space between the d3 and the wall currently. With my dimensions as they are would there still be an advantage to the statements?

[Jim Holtz]

thanks Jim, I currently have my d3's about 18" from the back of the speaker to where the wall is going to be. The thing I am wondering about is the tuba subwoofer is 36x36x24 that height is pretty close to the bottom mid range tunnel. There is about 36" of wall space between the d3 and the wall currently. With my dimensions as they are would there still be an advantage to the statements?

The sub shouldn't be a problem.

I'm going to get myself in trouble because I'm sure many will not agree. My opinion is, home theater is easy to do. The center carries 70% of the sound on most movies so it's easily the most important speaker in the system. Mains are "major" effects channels and the surrounds add ambiance and directionality cues for action elements. Having a good surround processor is also extremely important, IMHO, to achieve a good "bubble" of sound in a movie.

So, the 1st question I would ask, how much will you listen to music? Unlike dialogue, explosions and effects, music is difficult to reproduce accurately. I think the Statements excel at music and are excellent for home theater. However, I think other speakers will be just as good for home theater. If music is a consideration then the Statements series speakers would be my 1st choice.

Remember, I "could be" a bit biased. :rofl: YMMV....

Jim

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

Really Like my ZDT3.5's

If budget is an issue I built my ZDT3.5's for about $200 each(drivers/crossovers/binding posts/ports). I really enjoy them at a reasonable cost. I have them crossed at 60hz to an SVS PC-Ultra sub that blends really nicely. One other plus is that off axis these speakers are really nice due to the small 2" mid-dome and 3/4" silk dome tweeter. I have my theater set up on the long wall in my room so this is important to me. They also do not dominate my room(smaller than you would think) which is important to my wife. I have, however, hear the Statement Monitors at DIY New England and they were excellent speakers so I would question whether the Mini Statements might not be in the running as well. I almost built the Mini Statements, but they are almost three times the cost of my ZDT3.5's(budgetary constraints drove my choice and I am happy with it).

[---k---]

Jim,
No trouble here. I agree with you that movies are easy. The pictures on the screen easily distracts the brain from the sound, unless it is really bad. I would disagree with the center channel having 70%. I've unplugged my mains before and listened to just the center and vice versa, but that is a minor quibble.

[---k---]

wrong post.

[JonMarsh]

The sub shouldn't be a problem.

I'm going to get myself in trouble because I'm sure many will not agree. My opinion is, home theater is easy to do. The center carries 70% of the sound on most movies so it's easily the most important speaker in the system. Mains are "major" effects channels and the surrounds add ambiance and directionality cues for action elements. Having a good surround processor is also extremely important, IMHO, to achieve a good "bubble" of sound in a movie.

So, the 1st question I would ask, how much will you listen to music? Unlike dialogue, explosions and effects, music is difficult to reproduce accurately. I think the Statements excel at music and are excellent for home theater. However, I think other speakers will be just as good for home theater. If music is a consideration then the Statements series speakers would be my 1st choice.

Remember, I "could be" a bit biased. :rofl: YMMV....

Jim

Jim, you are a marvel of self restraint and impartiality on this topic!

But I personally agree that it's better to try to use good "music" speakers for HT, than the other way around- if your system for music has great vocal clarity and imaging with good music recordings, it will be wonderful for HT. I also agree the center is quite important, which is why I put so much effort in the NeoD CC's, and surprisingly found I had a pretty good mains speaker on my hands as well, if I just rotated it 90 degrees....

In the end, if some is good, more's better, and too much is usually just enough. :W

[Jim Holtz]

Hi Jon,

Thanks for your comments and support! Good music speakers = good home theater.

Jim

[Jim Holtz]

Jim,
I would disagree with the center channel having 70%. I've unplugged my mains before and listened to just the center and vice versa, but that is a minor quibble.

Hi Ryan,

I don't remember where I read the average percentage of sound in most movies but it was about 65% - 70%. It was tossed around as common knowledge but I couldn't find it when I Googled it. All I know is, the center is critical for good surround sound.

Jim

[---k---]

I know I read that over and over and over. But try it sometime. Obviously, it will vary by movie. Maybe it was just the movies I played with at the time.

[cjd]

Center carries ~70% of the dialog and core action noise/effects, but not sound (especially soundtrack).

[stgdz]

So has anyone ever built these with the arauco plywood instead of MDF? My tht is arauco and pl adhesive. I really like working with the plywood over the MDF because of the dust.

Since most of these speaker designs are adequetly braced there shouldn't be any change between the MDF and plywood correct?

[Face]

So has anyone ever built these with the arauco plywood instead of MDF? My tht is arauco and pl adhesive. I really like working with the plywood over the MDF because of the dust.

Since most of these speaker designs are adequetly braced there shouldn't be any change between the MDF and plywood correct?

I have a few sheets in my basement. It feels light compared to MDF and Baltic Birch.

Edit in bold.

[JonMarsh]

I'd use some care- it depends on your local conditions, and how well you can contain/control humidity. I would look for auraco ply that uses exterior grade glues- that from HD and Lowes is NOT. Otherwise, humidity induced delaminating may be an issue in some circumstances. Keep in mind auraco is considered a low grade, construction grade ply, not a premium furniture grade.

[stgdz]

I figured I should mention I did some center and front challenge conditions this weekend and I did this once before but ---K--- comments about how sound content is placed in a HT environment got me curious again. I turned off the surrounds, and lowered the fronts while keeping the center at full blast and vice versa.

Its amazing how much content goes through the center channel, I figured there would be more effects on the fronts but like cjd it carried almost all of the effects from TDK, transformers and Band of Brothers. The fronts carried all of the music in TDK and Transformers but band of brothers used the fronts very little, as there was little music. The bass was really lacking in the center channel and I think I would like to try the d3's in a center channel config, stood vertically as an evaluation.


With some of the stuff that I found out I know I want a large center channel but the fronts are something I may change my mind about. I will probably go with the statements in the end but I have to ask, would a waveguide tmw setup be less expensive or for that matter are there any horizontal waveguides(center) out there?

[cjd]

You may be interested in the Ansonica (work in progress) which might fit under your screen, vertically. Maybe. I can't tell, your screen may still be a tad low. But they can probably be built a bit shorter and just make them deeper. Or sealed with a sub (my preference for HT).