Good, cheap, Wall-mounting MTM?

[NoDestiny]

Got my mom a 40" LCD for Xmas. After hooking it up and giving it a quick calibration, the sound came out and was far from amazing. Needs something much, much better than stock TV speakers.

Problem is, the TV is to be wall-mounted on a mantle and only really gives the options for some wall-mounted speakers.

Anybody have any suggestions on that? MTM preferred, but anything is better than nothing.

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

Bose Busters(MTM) or B3N(Full Range)

Try these for MTM's:

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=24504

Try these for Full Ranges:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html

I think the drivers are on sale at PE right now for $8.88

Pair them with a cheap 8" powered sub from Parts Express and cross it at about 150hz. The full ranges only can stand about 15watts and the MTM's about 25watts so you don't need a powerhouse to drive them. If crossed over correctly and not in a huge room they can do quite well. Pick up a cheap 5.1 receiver to drive them for your Mom and you will be a hero.

[NoDestiny]

lol, I have a 7.1 THX certified Pioneer I used to use myself that is ready for her, but no HDMI ports on it made it worth less than a cheap 5.1 w/ em, so instead of selling it, I decided to keep it and use it on her install.

My biggest issue is that I know wall-mounting speakers oftens leads to undesired effects on the sound. I wanted to make sure whatever I do end up building is designed specifically to be wall mounted.

[mackintire]

What about this one: http://www.zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html

[NoDestiny]

Try these for Full Ranges:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker18.html

I think the drivers are on sale at PE right now for $8.88

Hrmmm... I dismissed these initially, but looking back, this may be an option. Wish there was a build for the round version, the Hi-Vi B3S. Specs are different, though, so probably wouldn't work the same.

[Kidsrapain]

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-652

25.00 a pair,got to sound better than any lcd. Just to get you by.

[NoDestiny]

lol, ha! Can't say I didn't consider that. After watching District 9 on the TV speakers, the 1080p was awesome, but the lack of even just descent stereo was a HUGE disappointment in how the movie should have been experienced.

Heres a question for ya... If you are unable to keep the speakers away from the wall as its often noted to do, could one put a home made broadband absorber (made from something like OC703) behind it to help rid of some of the issues? I'm thinking if that would help (I couldn't imagine it wouldn't), I could build some type of broadband absorber with a mounting arm attached that would hold the speaker up and in front of the treatment.

[benchtester]

Got my mom a 40" LCD for Xmas. After hooking it up and giving it a quick calibration, the sound came out and was far from amazing. Needs something much, much better than stock TV speakers.

Problem is, the TV is to be wall-mounted on a mantle and only really gives the options for some wall-mounted speakers.

Anybody have any suggestions on that? MTM preferred, but anything is better than nothing.

Recently Zaph added a wall mount MTM to the bottom of his ZA14 project list:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/za5/

Seems to me, it fits your requirements perfectly.

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

On Zaph's site the fullranges I sent you above include recommendations for a resistor change to incorporate putting the speakers close to the wall. I built a set with the B3N's vice the square frame(ugly) B3S. I put two 8ohm resistors in parallel(4ohms) with a switch that would open the input to one of the 8ohm resistors. This allowed me to switch between 4ohms and 8ohms to see which I liked better. Worked out pretty well. I am really happy with them. My daughter has taken them and hooked them up in her room. I have since replaced the stainless hardware with black, but here is a picture. They are pretty small an unobtrusive. If you shoot them with an auto primer(couple of coats) and wet sand with 400 grit, then topcoat with a gloss black you could build these for about $25/speaker. About as cheap as it gets for a quality speaker.

[Paul W]

I'd go for an in-wall coaxial (KEF) or even wall-mount less expensive ceiling speakers with a central tweeter.

Though just about anything is better than TV speakers, on-wall speakers may have choppy bass/low midrange response caused by LF reflections from the wall. MTMs mounted parallel to the wall at/above mantle height may also exhibit off-axis lobing directed down toward seated listeners.

[jkrutke]

Recently Zaph added a wall mount MTM to the bottom of his ZA14 project list:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/za5/

Seems to me, it fits your requirements perfectly.

To be clear, those are in-walls. On-walls are very different. While I sometimes do versions of crossovers configured as "near boundary", I often avoid the plight of placing box style speakers against a wall - it always causes an ugly response variation of lower midrange dip and upper midrange peak. Now if someone were to take that ZA5 in-wall design and put it in an optimized on-wall enclosure like this it probably would work well and wouldn't screw up the response too much.

Heres a question for ya... If you are unable to keep the speakers away from the wall as its often noted to do, could one put a home made broadband absorber (made from something like OC703) behind it to help rid of some of the issues? I'm thinking if that would help (I couldn't imagine it wouldn't), I could build some type of broadband absorber with a mounting arm attached that would hold the speaker up and in front of the treatment.

Yes, this works for cleaning up the response problems I mentioned above, provided the damping pad is thick enough and large enough. I have 2x4 acoustic panels, 4" thick. Placing that against a wall and a speaker in front of that, indeed the response is smooth as compared to without the damping.

There was a post on this forum somewhere with pictures of on-wall response variations from Floyd Toole's book. A search may turn that that up.

[jkrutke]

Here's that post I was talking about. Worst case in figure 12.9 b.

The interesting thing about Toole's measurements is that you can tell that he's doing that test with fairly large speakers. Smaller speakers show this effect much worse because the dip/peak combo moves up in frequency into the critical midrange. It's based on the depth of the enclosure.

[NoDestiny]

ouch, that on-axis graph of those speakers... the transition from midbass to midrange would be

I did some measurements and it looks like the mantle I have to work with is 12" deep (which is deeper than I thought). I'll have to get a pic of the install thus far and give you guys a better visual of what I'm working with. With 12" deep, I can probably get something like OC703 or mineral wool 1260, plus a few inches of space between the treatment and the back of the speaker.

[benchtester]

To be clear, those are in-walls. On-walls are very different.

Yes, indeed; my mistake. My wife wants "invisible" speakers, so I have "in-walls" on the brain. BTW, I am open to any other suggestions for "invisible" speakers.

I did some measurements and it looks like the mantle I have to work with is 12" deep (which is deeper than I thought).

I was thinking of making a combination unit consisting of a fireplace mantle, flat screen frame and hidden speakers on either side of the screen. This concept is still in the embryonic stage.