Any wood turners out there?

[JoshK]

As the title implies, I am wondering if there are any woodturners out there? I've been considering getting a lathe for a while. I want to turn horns/waveguides and phase plugs. I intend to do rather large horns at some point so outboard turning is a requirement.

I'm eyeing this lathe right now. I can't seem to find another lathe that in principal offers more for the money.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood-Lathe-With-Digital-Readout/G0462

My budget isn't super tight, but I'd rather not spend upwards of $1500 for a lathe I am not sure I am going to be real successful in using.

I've been watching craigslist for the last two years and only really old, really huge or hobby bench lathes have come up.

What are the features that you can't live without? What are the things to look for? If you were to turn large horns, what would you want?

Thanks,

[bobhowell]

I am a long time wood turner and have eyed the talks about wave guides for months. I dont't know how accurate you must be. I met Ed Lafontaine ( Sorry Ed if I butterched it) at the Atlanta DIY and he showed me a wave guide mold he had fashioned by turning, I guess. He also is skilled turner. Time was short and we never discussed it, but it was new AIRecall. So he would be the one to talk wave guides with.

As for laths they are a blast but I got mine 15 years back and it was old then(1950 model or so). I put a variable speed motor on it and a few up grades. New ones come out yearly but I don't keep up.

I have had two neighbors pass away leaving shops full of tools. Mine is stuffed and I could add nothing. Thoes things are HEAVY, so don't plan on shipping one far if it is used. Buy it local. I will look into the Grizzly and get back to you. I expect Ed will chime in soon. If not post on the PE board.

Good luck

Bob Howell

[JoshK]

Yeah, I thought of Ed when I wrote this. I know JLH who has turned many large horns uses a craftsman lathe comparable to the Grizzly above. He mentioned that he devised a pulley system to turn large horns. I've seen an example of his setup, as he shared pictures.

The thought of getting one of the powermatic lathes has crossed my mind, but that is just crazy talk.

[Curly Woods]

As the title implies, I am wondering if there are any woodturners out there? I've been considering getting a lathe for a while. I want to turn horns/waveguides and phase plugs. I intend to do rather large horns at some point so outboard turning is a requirement.

I'm eyeing this lathe right now. I can't seem to find another lathe that in principal offers more for the money.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood-Lathe-With-Digital-Readout/G0462

My budget isn't super tight, but I'd rather not spend upwards of $1500 for a lathe I am not sure I am going to be real successful in using.

I've been watching craigslist for the last two years and only really old, really huge or hobby bench lathes have come up.

What are the features that you can't live without? What are the things to look for? If you were to turn large horns, what would you want?

Thanks,

Josh,

The lathe will be the least expensive thing you buy, if you become a serious turner. Good chucks, chisels, gouges, skews, parting tools, a slow speed grinder to sharpen your tools, a sharpening jig for your grinder, wood!, etc. Steep and slippery slope these tools are :rofl:

[bobhowell]

I would turn something in MDF for you. It would be cheap to ship from Atlanta. I too am curious about wave guides.

But maybe you need a lathe!!

Bob

[WayneW]

A Lathe is like a gateway drug. Be very careful! Today it is wave guides, tomorrow it is segmented vases and cylindrical enclosures. The day after that it's new knives from Sheffield and the day after that you take out the second mortgage to get that really sweet log of makore wood you saw on ebay!

[JoshK]

Can baltic birch be turned as easily as solid wood or MDF or would it chip out too much? I have seen some horns made of ply but I don't know if they were just CNC'd. It would cut down on nasty dust and weight.

[bobhowell]

Can baltic birch be turned as easily as solid wood or MDF or would it chip out too much? I have seen some horns made of ply but I don't know if they were just CNC'd. It would cut down on nasty dust and weight.

When turning, dust is everywhere and you get a large dust collection system and wear a mask. Check with Ed about the preferences in the two materials. I think they would turn similarly.

[JoshK]

I have a 1HP dust collector for my shop, nothing fancy, but works. I also have a dust mask and a dust filter (Ridgid hanging powered air filter).

Half of me wants to buy the lathe, the other half is thinking of using a circle jig with the angle base attachment on my Bosch Colt.

[bobhowell]

I have a 1HP dust collector for my shop, nothing fancy, but works. I also have a dust mask and a dust filter (Ridgid hanging powered air filter).

Half of me wants to buy the lathe, the other half is thinking of using a circle jig with the angle base attachment on my Bosch Colt.

You have the dust covered. The Ridige filter is what I have aslo. It gets the last bit.

With all that you just have to get a lathe to get your moneys worth.

[WayneW]

Baltic Birch is a bircht to turn. It tends to tear, and it will dull knives almost a quickly as MDF or Particle Board. I suspect that the resins in the glue are what do the knives in. I have had good luck sanding/shaping it while chucked up with 60grit. If you don't mind sharpening alot, have at it...just take a little bit at a time!

Regards,

Wayne

[EdL]

Sorry to be late for the party!

I love woodturning. Thanks for the kind words, Bob.
WayneW is correct about turning BB. Power sanding with a flexible disc backing will remove a lot of sins. A solution to sanding the tear-out, which results from the alternating grain directions, and the constituent birch, is to "shear scrape". The bulk of material is removed with the larger gouges. Finishing cuts are made with the burred edge of a high speed steel scraper. The tool is held at an angle, supported only on one edge by the tool rest. The tool strokes "brush" the wood surface. (I just don't have a better term for it) These finishing strokes remove a few thousandths of material in a pass. After this type of cut, I can begin sanding with 150 or 180 grit. I Hate Sanding! I strive to improve my tool strokes for that purpose.
I've never seen the Grizzly, though I would consider the Grizzly lathe to be a very good value. One that would allow you plenty of hours of turning pleasure. With the ambitions you have for turning, it will likely become "undersized" at some point in the future (when???). Adding ballast to the machine can overcome some of this. The spindle size will become the weak spot. You may consider a smaller drive pulley as you move to larger turnings where 600 rpm and roughing out a blank can be "scary".
At this point in your turning journey you will know if the $1500 lathe is warranted.
Do you already have a bandsaw? Add that to Curly's list.
Don't underestimate the number of repetitions you will need to feel your way through a piece of wood. An example of this is the potter, who must make "1000 handles" before they learn how to put one on a tea cup. If you have access to a lathe, try to get some time on it to help you make the decision.

I say go for it. It is more than turning wood. It is "discovery". Expect that your ego will take a beating when you blow up a near-completed project. Save them. You will learn some valuable things about yourself as your skill increases.

Start with some modest projects.
Dome tweeter waveguides include all the cuts required of OS guides.

Wishing you the best

[JoshK]

Have a bandsaw, although I haven't used it yet.

My sole experience with turning was turning a 14" oak nut bowl in Jr. High school wood shop. I understand the scary part from that experience. I had the tool ripped from my hands a couple times as it bit hard into the rim. The bowl still turned out OK (pun).

Thanks again guys and especially Ed for your time to comment. I think that the Grizzly might be the beginners lathe I am looking for and can decide from there. I don't think a big Powermatic would be a good decision right now.

[JoshK]

Ed,

Two quick questions. What you do mean by ballast? What would that look like?

What is a more typical/robust spindle size?

[bobhowell]

Ed,

Two quick questions. What you do mean by ballast? What would that look like?

What is a more typical/robust spindle size?

I delt with ballast(weight) by gluing up some scrap hardwood I had around into a 4"thick by 12" wide and 6' long slab which I then mounted my lathe. My lathe is heavy cast iron from the 50's. It has 12" clearance, so that is the biggest disk I can mount on it. The Grizzly has 16" clearance. But when turning large items, weight/mass is VERY imp.; as well as min speed. Think momentem. I would not want to be near the Grizzly with a 16 project unless it was under 2" thick, then weight would be judged by the vibration resulting. You grab hold to the plug, cut it on and quickly decide wheather to pull the plug buy ear and sight.( the plug gives you controll, while standing out of the LINE OF FIRE). IMP.

I can place bags of sand on a shelf below my lathe stand if I have vibration problem. You could do likewise, on a fabricated shelf, but the lathe ways/bed(connecting the two ends) shown seems to be the liminting factor. I think you could add in a harwood slab like me and see big improvement. All these lathe stands are designed for midigets, 5-5.5" tall. I needed the extra 4" added.

Spindle size= $$

Mine is 1" like the Grizzly. I think it is light construction for a 1" spindle. The Powermatic @ 1-1/8" or so is the next level up. Said otherwise, $1500 will get you a heavyduty 1" spindle. $3,000 gets you a heavy duty 1.25" spindle. $5,00 gets a hd 1.5" spindle for 20-30" bowls. Women don't like bowls bigger than 12" on a table for 4-6 people. I am told at craft fairs, they go for 11-12" models.

Powermatic/Jet has several spindles, 1.125-1.25". I have lost tract.

The Grizzly would make all the wave guides I have seen.
The Powermatic would turn a vessel for a 7" woofer. You could then mount a tweeter on top in a smaller vessel. Stacked Rain Drops.

So how much room and money do you have?

Have fun

Bob

[JoshK]

I am looking for a way to turn horns in the 24-34" diameter range. Not dome tweeter waveguides of 6".

See elevenhorns.com, for example.

[JoshK]

Maybe this will give you an idea of what I was thinking. :twisted:

[Hdale85]

Holy $#&%

[bobhowell]

Maybe this will give you an idea of what I was thinking. :twisted:

That will take a 3-5,000 K model. Have some one make a mold and use fiberglass or some such.

[EdL]

A big bowl (or horn) lathe can be built for less. You need a shaft and 2 pillow blocks. The rest could be made in your shop.

Bob is right. Ballast = weight. But don't bolt it to the floor. Rigid connections can lead to failure.

I'll add a comment to the "scary" topic: eccentricity is BAD! Before I turn on the juice with a large piece, I rotate it by hand and check for out-of-round wrt the tool rest.
Don't short yourself on the screws through the face plate. If they fail, you have a lot of kinetic energy loose in the same space as you & looking for a place to go.
I have 2 lathes. The one I use frequently is formerly a school shop lathe. The head stock is 1 1/8", 8tpi, 1 hp. I regularly turn items 10" in diameter and ~6" thick.
My other lathe is for big stuff, made by a local machinist, it will turn 20" over the bed and go slow.

I certainly understand you interest in the big horns...I want to go there also...My suggestion for the modest beginer projects will allow you to develop your chops...Find some books on woodturning and/or a local mentor who will look over your shoulder...Wood is a material with limits. If you push beyond them it will break or bite you back. By neccesity you will have to push them to learn where they are...I'm still learning.

[JoshK]

Last night I read a lot of posts in the wood turners forum on SawMillCreek. I learned a bit. I am starting to get the impression I'd be better served by building a purpose built horn lathe. Something that gears down to rotate slowly. Something that can be sandbagged to have LOTs of weight. Devise an outboard turning stand like Jet's OTS-42.

I'll be turning MDF, not solid wood.

[bobhowell]

Big horns like the one shown here will take aHD lathe to turn. Ed suggest a home made model as an alternative and it is a popular solution. A famous turner built one for big 36" bowls using found parts such as a riding lawn mower transmission and a 2-3HP electric motor. That big, you start roughing out at 25-50 RPM's and go up to say 90-150 RPM's. Actually I'm just guessing, but it is in the neighborhood. I heard him describe the process several times, but have forgotten the numbers.

I propose you look into making a MALE mold on the lathe, and then lay up a fiberglass horn on it. That way you don't have to hollow out your form, and can turn it on a less expensive lathe, but still not the Grizzly. Hollowing out is the real BEAR. Shaping the outside for a mold would be 10-20% of the work.

I made several white water Kayaks in the 70's and was fascinated with the tech. I think, as a novice, it would be IDEAL for horns. But I know little of the acoustics involved.

Fill me in.

I still think you must decide weather you want to make wave guides, or, make/buy a lathe and turn. I started woodworking in 1990 and quickly got side tracted into tools. I spent 2 years making tools, just to see how basic I could get by with. Then I made furniture till 1994 when I equiped my shop. It was a blast and gave me a deep understanding of how to fix little problems with JIGS(which are just home made tools for very specific task.)

either one will be fun so you can't lose.

Have fun

Bob

[bobhowell]

Last night I read a lot of posts in the wood turners forum on SawMillCreek. I learned a bit. I am starting to get the impression I'd be better served by building a purpose built horn lathe. Something that gears down to rotate slowly. Something that can be sandbagged to have LOTs of weight. Devise an outboard turning stand like Jet's OTS-42.

I'll be turning MDF, not solid wood.

MDF is heavy and actually weak. A soft wood like Basswood is actually lighter and probably stronger(easier to turn)

I see our post overlapped so I'm posting this.

[JoshK]

Just as an FYI, the idea is not to complete hollow out a solid chunk. You glue up pieces that have the inner part cut out already by a router and circle jig a bit less than the target. Then you turn to smooth out this rough profile.