Tool Time

[Johnloudb]

Well, I'm trying to decide what tools to go with for my dipole speaker project. I need a router, a couple saw horses or some inexpensive wood work bench, and ????

Here's what I'm looking at:

DEWALT DW618PK 12-AMP 2-1/4-HP Plunge and Fixed Base

Dewalt DW6913 Router Edge Guide

Milwaukee 5615-24 1.75-Horsepower Multi-Base Router

Stanley Folding Saw Horse

I'd prefer not to spend too much since funds are tight. So I'm kind of leaning toward the Milwaukee router. I'm open to suggestions for other inexpensive routers that that are high quality and will get the job done. Is the $64.00 Ryobi router really any good? If it is good enough I'd might get that, if it can do a 1" round over with 1.5 horses?

Also what is the difference between the plunge and fixed base? Is variable speed important for basic jobs? I'll just be doing some round overs and cutting holes.

Also just got the calibrated Dayton mic at PE. It looks really nice and the response looks really flat, like +/- 1.5dB. I may even make a calibration file from the plot.

[bemis23]

My DeWalt 621 has been fantastic. The 618 is supposed to be similar, but I can't make a direct comparison. You definitely will want to check the Jasper jigs to make sure whatever router you get will mount and align properly with whatever router you buy if you plan on using it for circle cutting. It is possible to make your own jig which will open up your router choices, but make sure to take care when building your own jig to ensure you get the circle diameter exact.

Also, You will definitely want to factor in the cost of quality bits. I've been using the Bosch bits available at Lowe's and they have performed very well (although I cant comment on durability since I've not used them but for one project) but they are pricey. For example, the 3/4" roundover bit $45 after tax is the most expensive bit I've got. Figure $20-$30 for 45" chamfer bit and the double flute upcut mortising bits you'll need.

Also, I don't own a mic, but there has been a lot of discussion about the new Dayton mic and the factory calibration file hasn't been super accurate compared to independent calibration. The thread discussing them is pretty recent and should be easy to find.

[Silversmoky]

Hi John. I have the Milwaukee router that you are looking at. I can definitely say that it has been a quality tool. It doesn't have variable speed (my other milwaukee does) but it really isn't all that necessary for most uses. I have also used it with a 1" roundover and had no problems at all. Plenty of power and it will do it in one pass. It is nice that set comes with both bases. The plunge base is an almost must for cutting holes etc. imo. That DeWalt is a nice set too with variable speed and more power but does cost more. Hope that helps

[Hdale85]

If you are at all depending on the dust collection I'd look for a used or refurbished DW621 as it is amazing at collecting dust. The DW618 is ok but not near as good as the 621.

[Bill Schneider]

I've got a comment about the plastic sawhorse. I use my wooden sawhorse for cutting down large sheets of MDF and the top crossbar of the saw horse is sacrificial.

The saw blade extends below the piece being cut about 1/8" and cuts into the top board of the saw horse. Unfortunately, you can't cut a line between the two sawhorse supports for obvious reasons.

If you're using it merely for assembly, then it's probably OK. Otherwise, you'll need to attach something to cut into on the top of the plastic crossbar. With a common wooden sawhorse, it's no big deal to replace the top crossbar after a hundred cuts or so.

[Johnloudb]

Thanks the help guys!

Well I just ordered a nice used Dewalt 621 on ebay for $99.00, thanks for the tip Dougie and Bemis.

Also, I don't own a mic, but there has been a lot of discussion about the new Dayton mic and the factory calibration file hasn't been super accurate compared to independent calibration. The thread discussing them is pretty recent and should be easy to find.

I guess I didn't follow that thread long enough. Just saw they mentioned the that mic and bought it. But, that's okay I can always send it to someone to get it calibrated, if I find it's necessary.

If you're using it merely for assembly, then it's probably OK. Otherwise, you'll need to attach something to cut into onto the top of the plastic crossbar. With a common wooden sawhorse, it's no big deal to replace the top crossbar after a hundred cuts or so.

Good tip. I'll put some wood on the cross bar.

[Hdale85]

Dang you! lol I was looking at that one When I said to buy one I didn't mean THAT one..... No it's all good I do plan on purchasing a couple here shortly though.

[Hank]

DW621 and always have your shop vac attached and running. Jasper jigs, sharp bits, measure twice/cut once. Have fun!

[Johnloudb]

Dang you! lol I was looking at that one When I said to buy one I didn't mean THAT one..... No it's all good I do plan on purchasing a couple here shortly though.

:alol: Sorry Dougie ... I just figured you already had one.

DW621 and always have your shop vac attached and running.

Let me guess, the dust collection doesn't work without a shop vac? Thanks for pointing that out. :T Can you say Newbie? I do have one around here somewhere.

[bemis23]

Correct you do need a shop vac. Good deal one the 621 too. I think I got mine on EBay for $130ish

[Hdale85]

My friend has a 621 and I used it a lot. I'm not buying one right now but I think I'll get 2 in a few months.

Yes a shop vac works ok, dust collection system works better but I'm sure you're just sort of starting out on your tool collection so that may come later Dust collection on the DW621 really is fantastic and you made a great choice and I agree 100 bucks is a great price.

[Johnloudb]

My cousin brought my wood over last week, which looks really nice. Still I need to cut holes, chamfer, round over edges and then put stuff together.

I drew with pencil the outlines of the cutouts and marked the hole centers. The DW621 looks really nice - thanks for the recommendation guys. :T

I need bits: I've looked around for different bits but I don't want to spend like $60 a bit. And I've seen some nice sets out there. Any recommendations?

What I need for sure:

3/4" roundover, 3/4 or 1 inch chamfer bit, a 3/16" or 1/4" straight cutting bit for the holes, and a bit to flush mount drivers (not sure what to use for that).

I've never used a router. The only straight bits I've seen are 1" at the longest. But, the baffle will be 1.5 inches thick where the woofer cutouts are. So, must be some longer bits out there. Would the 1/8" bits from my Roto Zip be okay for using with the router.

Here is both baffles on the horses:

[orbifold]

You might want to think about a 1/4" spiral upcut bit. You can use that to flush mount the drivers by cutting successively smaller holes at the flange depth. HD sells them at less than $20, altho I did break a couple ops: Straight cut ones don't cut as smoothly.
Some folks seem to cut one piece of baffle at a time and then glue. I don't know how they align the pieces. you'd have to use a screw or nail or three if you did it that way. Things tend to slip under clamping.
I cut the flange first to depth allowing for some kind of gasket material for the seal and moving the circle cutter smaller and smaller till I can cut the hole for the driver itself. Once that is down around an inch, I drill a hole thru the bottom of that cut, insert jigsaw, and cut the hole out. Oops, did I just sell you another tool? :E
Then, you can clean off the nasty jigsaw cut with the guide bit by flipping the glued-up baffle and cutting from the back with the guide bearing on the smooth part of the hole.

Solving these problems is the most fun part, really!!

Dave

[ThomasW]

Any reason you can't run the router from both sides?

The 1/8" Rotozip bits will burn up cutting thick MDF

[gimpy]

I would use a straight bit (flat bottom) that is the diameter of the flat edge of your driver for the flush mount, maybe 1/2 inch or 5/8, something like that? Be sure and cut the flush mount portion first, then you can cut the rest of the hole (the woofer cutout--from the inside edge of the flush mount cut)(at least that is the way I do it). You can actually finish cutting the actual hole with a jig saw if your router bit is not long enough since that portion is not visible and the driver's back "cones" away from the edge (make sense? probably not).

I just bought a 3/4 inch roundover bit a month or so ago (haven't used it, yet) from Grizzly. It was $18.00 +shipping (not too bad, I didn't think). Otherwise, you might check out Holbren's web site. He sometimes has pretty good deals on router bits.

I would stay away from using 1/8 inch bits too much. They can be very fragile and break (which I've had done) and kinda scary when you think about it.

[Johnloudb]

Any reason you can't run the router from both sides?

The 1/8" Rotozip bits will burn up cutting thick MDF

No, that's perfect. I'll cut from both sides, and then don't need to worry about hitting the saw horse either.

The wood is actually Baltic Birch ply, but can't really tell from the photo. The would grain looks really nice ... I was kind of surprised.

I would use a straight bit (flat bottom) that is the diameter of the flat edge of your driver for the flush mount, maybe 1/2 inch or 5/8, something like that? Be sure and cut the flush mount portion first, then you can cut the rest of the hole (the woofer cutout--from the inside edge of the flush mount cut)(at least that is the way I do it).

Sounds good, I'll be sure and rout out the flush mount first.

Thank y'all for the tips! That will get me started.

[Biff]

I use the same sawhorse rig myself and 2x2s drop in on the tops nicely. But I find at my skill level I am in need of a sacrificial top occasionally - also had problems with droop on thinner pieces when using a straightedge, sawborad, etc. Hollow core doors are really cheap and if I clamp my sheet to them and use my pin on the jasper jig through to the backer it doesn't jump at the cut through, and I get less chipout on the underside of sheets.

[hifijeepster]

MLCSwoodworking.com has good quality inexpensive router bits. Much cheaper than HD or Lowe's.

[Hank]

You bought the correct router - don't forget to have your shop vac hooked up and running whenever you route that nasty MDF. I second the MLCS recommendation for bits - I've bought all mine from them for years and have been happy with them. They also sell the very handy Merle band clamps.


Who was that masked man?:bluezoned:

[Johnloudb]

I use the same sawhorse rig myself and 2x2s drop in on the tops nicely. But I find at my skill level I am in need of a sacrificial top occasionally - also had problems with droop on thinner pieces when using a straightedge, sawborad, etc. Hollow core doors are really cheap and if I clamp my sheet to them and use my pin on the jasper jig through to the backer it doesn't jump at the cut through, and I get less chipout on the underside of sheets.

That's good idea!

You bought the correct router - don't forget to have your shop vac hooked up and running whenever you route that nasty MDF. I second the MLCS recommendation for bits - I've bought all mine from them for years and have been happy with them. They also sell the very handy Merle band clamps.

It's Baltic Birch!, can't tell from the pic but I post a better picture when I can ... looks nice. I'll use my shop vac with it.

Who was that masked man?

???? Huh :scratchhead:

[bemis23]

A quick tip I came up with. If you are going to route on both sides for the driver hole - the Jasper pin is exactly 1.5" long which leaves nothing to bite the guide hole on the jig once you flip the baffle over for the final backside cut (since you'll need to drill through to make sure your alignment is perfect). What I've done for my last build is to pack some sawdust into the center guide hole and then seal it with a piece of duct tape on the front side of the baffle. The sawdust shortens the hole length and lets the guide pin stick up through the backside surface once the work piece is flipped over so that the jig stays secure and in place for your final cut.

[Johnloudb]

Thanks Bemis, I do have the Jasper jig and saw the pin in that's in package. I'll pack the end of the hole like you suggest when turning it over. :T

[Johnloudb]

I finally got the bits and most of the other stuff I needed for this project. So, I'm starting my adventure in speaker building and I did this first test cut with a 1/4" Freud down spiral bit and WOW! Fast, smooth and quiet. For this no dust collection is needed since all the saw dust goes downward.





Decided not to get an edge guide. I'm just going to clamp a long board on top of my baffle and use that as a guide to cut the straight cuts for the long rectangular holes, for the RD50.

I got an a straight 5 bit set of MLCS bits, but they have this protective coating on them. Any tips on how to remove it? I have some hydrogen peroxide I was going to use to clean it off. Don't know if that will work.

These Stanley saw horses work great too! I put some heavy water bottles on the lower platform to give more stability. Worked really nice.

[gimpy]

Most of the bits that I have/seen have a "rubberized" type of protective coating on them. Is this what yours have? If so, just peel it off with your fingers. It comes off very easy.

[Johnloudb]

Yep, it was a rubberized coating. And it peeled off real easy, Thanks!

[JonP]

A tip on cutting the thru hole for the driver... What I've been doing, is after stepping my way down thru the baffle, (learned not to try to get greedy and cut it all at once) make your last cut just a hair short of all the way thru... like less than 1/16". You don't have it break thru, and the router gouge the side... as well as not cutting into your tabletop. Then, you just crack out (or cut) the paper thin remaining piece, and sand the edges.

[Johnloudb]

Thanks, I got greedy at first (didn't get very far) and I see that cutting 1" baltic birch is not the same as cutting ordinary 3/4 ply which went pretty quick.

Okay so,

1) Don't get greedy

2) Don't cut all the way through

3) Avoid cutting the saw horse

4) "The Lord loves a working man, don't trust whitey."

Got it!
:T

[Johnloudb]

Circular Saw???

I need a recommendation for a nice circular saw. I need something in the $100 dollar range, new or used. Here's some I've looked at, but not sure what I should be looking for in a saw.

makita

Dewalt

RYOBI

[BOBinGA]

John, I hate to say it, but what you should really be looking at is a table saw. I know you are trying to keep the price down, but after trying to build speakers with a hand held circular saw, I finally gave in and bought a table saw. If you are trying to keep it cheap, here is a $250 Ryobi from HD that works very well:

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Power-Tools-Saws-Table-Saws/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xg1Zaqdk/R-100593232/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

It has the best miter slide you will find for less than $500. The miter slide is the weak link in cheap saws and this one is far better than most. It's also portable, which is a big advantage. For the price, I don't think you can beat it.

-Bob

[Johnloudb]

Yeah I think you're right. That does look like a nice saw. Only, most of my wood is already cut, so I just need to cut some boards for the base of my speaker. So I'm thinking I may go with this cheaper one.

Smaller RYOBI

I'm trying to raise $600 in tweeter money for my dipole speaker, so I'm trying to keep costs down. I think I'll also check ebay and see if there are any reconditioned table saws like the one you have.

[Face]

A buddy of mine used to say, "A cheap tool will get you in trouble".

[BOBinGA]

That little Ryobi might be OK for house framing, but there are just too many 1/64 th inch trims when building speakers that a good miter really helps. If you get the small saw, find a way to tighten up the slide so its tight. Also get a good one foot square. the hardest thing on a saw is getting exact right angles.

-Bob

[Johnloudb]

Bob,

Do you find your table saw sounds real loud? Is it louder than say using a router or loud vacuum cleaner. One mentioned the noise of the small RYOBI as being real loud.

That's an issue for me due to my sound sensitivity. I use ear protection with a router and would with a table saw as well, but if it's terribly loud it may not be enough.

[BOBinGA]

I guess it's a little louder than the router, but not twice as loud. I always use foam earplugs (well at least when I remember them ), but the saw will remind you to put them in right away. It's not terribly loud just idling, but when you actually run a cut, it gets loud. If the hearing protection you use for the router does its job, I don't think you would need anything more for the saw.

-Bob

[Johnloudb]

Thanks Bob, I think with my muffs it will be okay.

[Solid7]

A tip on cutting the thru hole for the driver... What I've been doing, is after stepping my way down thru the baffle, (learned not to try to get greedy and cut it all at once) make your last cut just a hair short of all the way thru... like less than 1/16". You don't have it break thru, and the router gouge the side... as well as not cutting into your tabletop. Then, you just crack out (or cut) the paper thin remaining piece, and sand the edges.

This is called "onion skinning", and is a common practice on CNC machines with vacuum tables. You want to leave MUCH less than 1/16". More like .010-.020". (but .030" still works, and leaves a fairly sharp edge) Whatever is left over, you can actually tear off. But always tear over the cut edge. Tearing toward the uncut face can splinter out the part.

[Johnloudb]

Hi Solid, yes that's what I did and it worked well.

Well, I got the table that Bob recommended - Thanks again Bob. It looks real nice, though I haven't got it completely set up yet.

And thanks Face, for scaring me half to death. I kept having visions of the smaller RYOBI saw tipping over while using it and cutting off an arm or a leg. And I read that the guard on it was pretty useless. It's worth the extra piece of mind to pay little more and stay safe, and have a better saw as well.