Please help with Dual SUB Setup!

[Brettl]

I have a Symetrix 551E 5 Band Parametric EQ. To get the most out of these SVS SS passive subs will I need to EQ them? I also have a SPL meter

Any help on setup would be a huge bonus.

thanks, Brett

[Chris D]

Well, Brett, it's not so much the subs, (although for inferior subs, the output is all over the place and needs more EQ) but really your room. Every room will be unique and screw up a perfectly flat subwoofer output. So EQ'ing your subs is never a bad idea. I use a BFD on my dual SVS PC-Ultras, and it does make a nice difference.

[urlawyer]

I think that an equalizer is used to fix a problem with the room or the speakers. I.E. Your room has a dead spot in the mid range, you would use the equalizer to fix it. Or your speakers are a little light in the high end, you would use the equalizer to fix that.

But with subs you need to find the correct placement in your room to get good lows. I do not think that you can easily correct for incorrect placement with an equalizer.

I use two subs in my system (a Velodyne DD10 and a Velodyne F1200) and it took a while to find the correct placement in my room for each of them. Once I found the correct placement than I used my sound meter to set the volume. In my case I used the sound generator in my Rotel RSX 1500 to set each with the other turned off, each was set at an spl of 65 and then with both turned on I set the volume of each sub in small increments to get to an spl of 75. Of course all the other speakers were also set to an spl of 75.

Of course everyone has their way of setting their system for the sound they like to hear.

Subs in my opinion should not be heard. What I mean is if the lows should be there than they are but if for example male voices sound boomy than the subs are set much to high. I use my news guy to check for this.

[Brettl]

I use a BFD on my dual SVS PC-Ultras.. What is a BFD?

So this unit I am buying should work right?

Are you familiar with the SVS ss passive subwoofrers? They are a few years older and have the 12.3 woofers in them, not the woofers shown in the add. Those are the older version. I am buying them from one of the people that used to work at SVS.
here is a link:

http://web.archive.org/web/20040604080554/svsubwoofers.com/subs_ss.htm

What do you think about these?

[Chris D]

Oh, BFD is a "Behringer Feedback Destroyer", a device that many use to EQ subs.

The overall point is that no room is a perfect forum for sound replication. You can do a lot, starting with room design, then construction methods, then treatments. After that, you need correct equipment placement, (in this case, putting subwoofers in the correct spot in the room for maximal output) and then EQ the equipment so your eyes and ears perceive optimal sound and video reproduction. (meaning a pseudo-flat audio spectrum reproduction, accurate colors, bright, neutral whites, and deep blacks)

As for the SVS subs, those guys have always put out good products. Buying some of their older products should be fine, although obviously it won't be as good as current products. I'd buy them if you're getting a good deal.

[Brettl]

I think its a good deal 2- SVS, SS subs with EQ unit for 550.00. Originally they went for (1895.00 each or 4995.00 for 2 with amp and EQ unit). I was going to build a sub, but I could build one vs. 2 for this price. They are solid wood with veneer finish and look like the ones in the link but have the next generation 12.3 woofer.

[Chris D]

Yeah, I'd do that!

[Brettl]

Yeah, I'd do that!

Ok, got them home and they are in great shape ( Look like they have never been used ). They are solid wood inside and out and drivers look like new. I can post pictures.

I also have the EQ unit, how do I put this in line and use it to EQ the subs? If any of you have time I kinda need a step by step guide.

Thanks, Brett

[Chris D]

Hmmm... I don't know what the EQ unit is. Many of us use the BFD, which has an online guide as far as how to set up.

[Brettl]

Chris is there a chance I could call you? Please, send me your number and a good time to call. I have so many questions about using Pro Gear in HT and I don't want to buy the wrong things on a fixed budget. Here is my email:

Artvandelay1@verizon.net

Thanks, Brett

[Brettl]

No need, I guess I just went ahead and purchased. Worst case is it doesn't work and I send it back.

[Brettl]

Please help with Dual SUB Setup!

Ok I set everthing up from the advice I recieved here on the forum. I am using a Denon AVR4800 receiver and running the LFE out split to the RCA to 1/4 inputs of the behinger EP4000 ( 750 watts x 2 ) then running speaker cable to the passive subwoofers. With everything cranked up to max ( Denon LFE and Behringer gain ) I still have very little coming out of the subs.
Also, the input light on the amp shows little to no signal coming into the amp and only turns on on heavy heavy bass.

I had an extra preamp around so I tried it and sent the Denon signal to the Pre 1st then sent the signal to the Behringer. After setting the pre amp to max I now have sufficient sub output. I am however now getting Hum.

Is there an easy fix for this problem or should I send this amp back for a different amp that would match gains better?? Maybe a plate amp? Are they designed to match Home Audio better? Problem is I need the power for the dual subs!

FYI my speakers are High efficiency being Klipsch and vintage Altec.

[ThomasW]

I merged your threads. Let's not start a new thread for every question related to this topic.

Go to the hardware store and buy several cheaters. They look like this ....



Put them on the Symetrix and the EP4000, they will break the ground loop (hum)

BTW if you decide you don't want the Symetrix I'll buy it. They are very good equalizers, but are limited to 5 bands (sometimes that's not enough). They're also tricky to set accurately since there's no digital readout. This means EVERY change of any dial must be checked by taking measurements.

[---k---]

I'm suspicious. Lots of people use Denon receivers and do not need a clean box or a preamp to get enough signal to the pro amp and are very very happy.

I would check the 1/4" adapter that you're using and make sure you have a MONO adapter and not a stereo adapter. You might want to try a different cable, like the one I linked to earlier.

I would also make sure the sub channel level on the Dennon is not -10 or something silly like that. 0 should be fine. Try +5 if you're still having issues.

I would also check the dip switches on the back of the amp. Make sure you don't have one of the high pass filters turned on. IIRC, it comes from the factory with one of the high pass filters turned on, so you're not getting most of your bass.

[Brettl]

I checked everything and the 1/4" adapters say MONO.

Ok I disconnected my plate amp from my other SVS sub and lengthened the woofer leads to the new passive sub and, WOW. I got bass coming out of my ears with just one. It has got to be the lack gain being sent by the Denon to the Behringer.
At lower levels I had no ground hum but I also had very litle bass.

I also check for polarity and the Denon was not set to -5 or anything like that i set it at one point to +12.

You sure the gains are not a mismatch between the Denon and Behringer? This amp is serious meant to put out up to 4000 watts bridged. Maybe it is set to have a hot signal coming in? If I am mistaken why does the plate amp work so well?

And Yes Thomas, I might think about selling the EQ unit for a reasonable offer.

[ThomasW]

Post the 'MODE SWITCH' settings you're using on the back of the EP4000

Also what 'Gain' settings are you using? (the knobs on the front of the amp)

[Brettl]

Maybe I have this set up wrong let me know what you think?

[Brettl]

here are the instructions.

[---k---]

Looks to me like the instructions indicate that you have the low cut filter on and set to 50hz. Which means, everything below 50hz is being discarded by the amp. Flip switch 3 and 8.

[Brettl]

O.K. did that, and have the gain maxed again on the Denon and behringer and just not getting what seems to be right. You would think I would want to turn down the gain like my other subs but no?

[ThomasW]

You would think I would want to turn down the gain like my other subs but no?

If I had a $1 for every time I've answered this question I'd be rich.......

Those aren't really 'gain' knobs, all those do is cut the signal level coming into the amp from the source (they should be called input attenuation knobs, not 'gain'). They can be all the way up if needed.

The next thing to try is remove the "Y" and run one sub off one channel of the EP4000. Using a "Y" splits the voltage going into the power amp in 1/2 for each channel, so that maybe the problem....

[---k---]

Yeah, good call Thomas. That might be it. As I said before, switch the dip switches to Parallel mode. Then just run the cable to input 1 and it will be sent to both channels.

[Brettl]

[QUOTE=ThomasW]If I had a $1 for every time I've answered this question I'd be rich.......

Sry. for asking but that is exactly why I posted here. You guys have gone through this and I am doing all I know which is very little. THx for the help and I will try this ASAP will post back.

[Brettl]

Well I tried that suggestion also and it seems a little better but still no comparsions to the single plate amp. So I will get a call tag from PE and send it back. I was thinking that I would just get 2 plate 500 Bash Plate amps. Any other reccomendations?

[ThomasW]

Plate amps are probably the worst investment in audio given how they're built and the cheap parts used in them.

That said I have no idea why you felt the need for a EP4000 when a EP1500 would have been more than enough for those 12" drivers.

[Brettl]

hat said I have no idea why you felt the need for a EP4000 when a EP1500 would have been more than enough for those 12" drivers.

I chose the behringer based on the advice from this forum. From the sound of your post it was obviously "bad".

Anyway, I am going to pick up a QSC locally that way I can take it back if it does not work. The QSC GX3 or Gx5 has RCA inputs and seems to be able to handle this kind of set up.

You think you are frustrated with my questions and choices, I been at this all day!

Thanks pal for pilling on

[---k---]

Thomas,
The EP4000 was my suggestion. I think I recommended more for use with future projects. I still think it was good.

Brett,
Something isn't right. Before you spend the 15% restocking fee and shipping fee to PE, I would try the $8 cable I pointed you to (though double check the male/female thing). I haven't had a problem driving my EP2500 with either my Pioneer receiver or Denon receiver before it. I use a cable like was posted.

[ThomasW]

Something isn't right........ I would try the $8 cable I pointed you to (though double check the male/female thing).....I use a cable like was posted.

Thanks pal for pilling on

I was going suggest he put his Symetrix in the circuit and use it as a line level shifter, but I'm not a MD so I don't want to be accused of offering 'pills', .......

[Brettl]

I was going suggest he put his Symetrix in the circuit and use it as a line level shifter, but I'm not a MD so I don't want to be accused of offering 'pills', .......

Thomas, once again I stand corrected by you. As enemy of the state I plead guilty as charged by the Scripts Spelling Bee Police.

Oh, to only be able to grow up and be an abusive Moderator. ;x(

[ThomasW]

Always a good idea to approach posting on the net with a sense of humor. Hence the ....

Thread closed.