need good home audio volume

[davew18]

my dad and i are piecing together a nice home audio set up, currently running a 2.1 brands consisting of behringer and hertz.

were ready to step up to 5.1 (yes 7.1 is soon to come) my dad said to me " i love the sound that were getting but alotta times when were watching movies or listening to music, i really wanna shake the house and get LOUD."

i instantly thought, floor standing cabinets housing dual 10 inch midbass dual 6.5 midrange and dual silk dome tweeters and some dayton 3 way x-overs.

but i think we want more volume, i know thats alot don`t get me wrong, but the living room at my parents is huge and has very large doors to the deck where they spend alot of there time listening to music thats playing in the house.

i cant sacrifice any sound quality here, any suggestion? -Dave

[Face]

Efficient speakers and lots of clean power.

[davew18]

always good advice, thank you sir.

i am pretty sure i have the bass end of things well taken care of, i am running two 15 inch hertz woofers off of 1200 watts.

i was almost considering attempting some loudspeakers.

problem with that is that i have NO experience with that field what so ever.

what i was considering is...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=294-313

2 of those and

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-536

1 of those per cabinet

maybe one of these x-overs...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-140

and figure out what kind of enclosure to put them in.

i have no clue how the sound quality is in that type of set up versus more traditional 3 ways.

i do think it would approach the volume were going for but, like i said , i cant sacrifice sound quality.

[ThomasW]

We don't allow anyone to make the mistake of using generic crossovers.

You might consider following along as Brandon (augerpro) creates this design

https://www.htguide.com/forum/showpost.php?p=466651&postcount=1

[fourdegrees11]

Don't do that! You will blow that tweeter, and thats just the start of all the problems you would get from attempting that design. Read the links below, then come back

http://undefinition.googlepages.com/diy-mfaq

http://undefinition.googlepages.com/diy-faqs-provendesigns

[davew18]

ok read the links... very very interesting... i feel like a audio noob all over again... damn,

but none the less awesome reads aside from " In car audio, they say you can "throw parts at a problem"" which is total B.S. but whatever.

ok so pre built x-overs are no good. kinda figured ... i really don`t wanna make my own though... i just don`t feel confident and don`t wanna hurt anything, not to mention dont have the money to keep blowing speakers.

the design that " Brandon (augerpro) " is creating, is gorgeous and love that idea he is talking 600$ and that seams a bit more then i wanna spend but then on the other hand i would like to see the same quuality parts except two 12`s or perhaps even two 15`s, but thats just cause i like overkill.

musiciansfriend.com offers some prebuilt cabinets housing big woofers and get rave reviews.

i think i am wrong for wanting to go that direction just i keep thinking bigger woofer lots of excursion lots of displacement equals lots of volume...

[ThomasW]

the design that " Brandon (augerpro) " is creating, is gorgeous and love that idea he is talking 600$

That's $600 for a pair...

musiciansfriend.com offers some prebuilt cabinets housing big woofers and get rave reviews.

Consider the source

i think i am wrong for wanting to go that direction just i keep thinking bigger woofer lots of excursion lots of displacement equals lots of volume...

So you only care about how loud it plays not how good it sounds?

[davew18]

So you only care about how loud it plays not how good it sounds?

hmm don`t recall saying that....

[bemis23]

hmm don`t recall saying that....

Dave,

Just so you know, on these boards accuracy to the fundamental (reducing linear distortion) rules the roost. SPL is typically a secondary ore tertiary concern that falls somewhere after off/on axis response. You are right that displacing more air with create higher SPLs - but if the drivers, crossovers, and enclosure aren't working in harmony you won't necessarily be pleased with the sound regardless of how loud it is.

If you are just looking for a pair (or full 5 channel set) of high value speakers that you can order and perhaps build the enclosure and custom finish (no crossover design or assembly necessary), I'd suggest checking out Clearwave design run by Jed (a forum member here) - there's a banner link at the top of this page. He can work with with you to help you reach your design goals and meet your budget, and his designs receive rave reviews.

On the other hand, if you really want to learn how to design a build a solid system from the ground up you need to start reading. If this is what you want, search the forum for "required reading material" - there are several threads (including one of my own) dedicated to the subject. I've been working on my first project for nearly ~6 months while I've learned a TON, I haven't made a lick of sawdust yet, although some of that is due in part to my indecisiveness.

Cheers!

edit: clarifications and typos

[fourdegrees11]

The trend is just beginning to move towards high output pro drivers, there are not many proven designs to choose from. You are either going to have to increase your budget, change your output goals, or give up on sound quality and buy a PA speaker.

I would take a look at the Blue Wonders project at PE

http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=Blue&CFID=9535911&CFTOKEN=45974054

The original drivers used were copies of Eminence drivers, which can be easily had

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-579

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=290-404

This design will cost you $900 (if you add the project to your cart get rid of all the extra crap they throw in).

[ThomasW]

the design that " Brandon (augerpro) " is creating, is gorgeous and love that idea he is talking 600$

Look closely at what being offered.

The woofer in that design is $130, the waveguide is $9, the compression driver is $60. So all in all not much more than the drivers you listed. These drivers are chosen after Brandons extensive testing of the drivers. So we know the performance quality is high and the performance characteristics of the drivers are optimally matched.

All your references to loud, overkill etc.... keep in might that 5.1 or 7.1 setups using drivers like those above will pretty much blow anyone out of the room with high SPL.

[davew18]

the way it seams to me right now is i am seeing building my own crossovers as being a mountain to climb, i need to get over that.

so what i would like to do is find some good reading maybe even a book or something, to a beginners guide to building crossovers.

right now it just seams steep cause i have never attempted this and when i see schematics on paper i just see alot of math that i don`t even begin to understand.

could anyone suggest a good beginners guide to building crossovers and understanding them?

[---k---]

Building a crossover really isn't that hard. It looks it, but it isn't Most projects have good pictures. Just line the parts up like the picture, twist the wires together, check versus the schematic which becomes a lot clearer once you lay the parts out like the picture, and then test it by hooking it up to the speaker. If it sounds right, hit each connection with a solder iron.

It is so easy, that there really aren't that many references to how to do it. Try Curt's page on crossovers:

http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/nodal_analysis.html

Oh, and also throw out all your preconceived notions of how big of a speaker you need. There are plenty of people running a 5.1 system consisting of a five simple 2-way TM. A 5.1 of Modula MT's will get plenty loud in a reasonable size room.

[cjd]

For what it is worth, I've pushed 110dB in my HT (with ear-plugs) before I got sick of it and moved back to sane output levels and not hit excursion limits - I'm using single RS180's in the back, dual RS180's up front - that's 7" drivers. Plus the IB sub of course (that's 4x15"...) - that loud is simply unusable - If I'm wanting it *really* loud for a movie I rarely find myself even as high as 90dB, usually ~82-84dB nominal (peaks will push higher on stuff like explosions) - that still shakes the whole house, but that's because LFE will do that.

The other thing is, when you get rid of distortion you often discover your previous desire for "loud" was simply trying to overcome distortion - lots of people crank up their center channel like crazy - turns out it's because they can't understand speech! Simple reason for it too, and not just distortion. As you start to figure things out, a lot of common little problems start to make sense.