Zaph's new driver...
Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
-
- Bottom
Comment
-
Frame looks like it came out of the same factory as the Exodus 6.5 and the similar CSS driver- which is a good thing. Nice looking parameters all around. Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshFrame looks like it came out of the same factory as the Exodus 6.5 and the similar CSS driver- which is a good thing. Nice looking parameters all around. Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
All the details are there!
Chuck- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshWould be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
Overall, it seems like a well designed driver with quite high value. I, personnally, think it looks great as well.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshFrame looks like it came out of the same factory as the Exodus 6.5 and the similar CSS driver- which is a good thing. Nice looking parameters all around. Would be curious to see some HD plots, see what the HD3 resonance amplification looks like.
Scroll down in the pdf, there are HD plots, some random sample plots, impedance close up, etc. Whoops, Chuck and Paul beat me to it.Dan N.- Bottom
Comment
-
Thanks- I didn't see the PDF last night on my iPhone, it looks pretty good, though the HD3 curve has the peak around 3 kHz that I would expect- it's sort of an Excel W15CY-001 with 1.5 dB more sensitivity and at 1/4 the cost! I seem to recall that Excel was one of Zaph's favorites at one time.
Could make a killer little sealed MTM with these... but which tweeter? For parity, the tweeter shouldn't cost more than two of the midwoofers, right?
What do you want to bet John will have something like that posted soon? :W Of course, if I was doing it, I'd probably just use a modified Natalie P crossover concept (3rd order all pass, good vertical dispersion for an MTM configuration, and reasonable driver suppression).
Too bad I'm so busy already.... :Wthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
-
His blog states that an MMTMM is forthcoming...If that's the case, should we assume the tweeter will be 4x the woofer cost? Somehow I doubt that'd meet the Zaph priceerformance ratio-Alan
There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny. It's all a lot of simple tricks and nonsense.- Bottom
Comment
-
Ahhh, but we can't trust those manufacturer plots. We need independent testing!
(in case you missed the first one)- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by AlanHHis blog states that an MMTMM is forthcoming...If that's the case, should we assume the tweeter will be 4x the woofer cost? Somehow I doubt that'd meet the Zaph priceerformance ratio
OTOH, with a target of 4 - 5" drivers at $160, then one could justify a D3004/602010 on sale. you would definitely would want to stay with a lower 3rd order crossover then- that's a tall source to be going very high. This would allow some tight driver spacing with the SS tweeter.
Perhaps just an MTM is a better idea. I could use it with my Delilah Sumo electronic crossover and the old woofers in my Tie Fighter.... the 4 ohm sensitivity even after 4-5 dB of BSC should be pretty decent.
I admire how John has provided an "explicit" drawing for recommended rear chamfer for backflow; OTOH, that's a pretty steep requirement, not a lot of meat left at the driver mounting point. Perhaps Imperial grade composites would handle that - or should we go green and spell LBL?
It would be interesting to see how the linear distortion holds up, where it starts exhibiting energy storage on shaped sine bursts. Regardless, the value proposition (a familiar mantra from Mr. Kruktke) is quite clear.DFAL
Dark Force Acoustic Labs
A wholly owned subsidiary of Palpatine Heavy Industries- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by ---k---Ahhh, but we can't trust those manufacturer plots. We need independent testing!
(in case you missed the first one)
Also I think the motor is big and not that efficient (Bl = 6), I would expect a little more of such motor system.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by AlanHHis blog states that an MMTMM is forthcoming...\Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
The Merlots
Scanspeak R2904/7000's, Scanspeak 15M4531K00's, Dayton RSS265HF-4's, MiniDSP 2x8, Class D amplification- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by TacoDI totally agree, don't get me wrong but why do we need another "Dayton class" woofer?
Also I think the motor is big and not that efficient (Bl = 6), I would expect a little more of such motor system.
I commiserate with your Taco, but you know, those folks at Madisound don't have a line of Dayton RS drivers- maybe this is their start to rectifying that situation?
Driver design is a handful, and much of it is about trade-offs. Looks like they made some good ones here- in many ways, I still say it's like an improved W15CY but at much lower cost. I'm not a personal fan of the RS150 and RS125, so this is an interesting alternative.
Let's face it- everyone gets a vote in this with their wallet, one way or the other. :Wthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshI commiserate with your Taco, but you know, those folks at Madisound don't have a line of Dayton RS drivers- maybe this is their start to rectifying that situation?
Kudos to Zaph on his first driver. It's look great and I might try it as well. Cross it LR4 around 2k to avoid some of the higher order stuff high up.
Of course now he'll have to bring a 6, 8, and 10 inch to market... and a tweeter too.- Bottom
Comment
-
It does look promising, although there is competition as noted. I'm sure I'll get my hands on a pair of these for testing sooner or later. I don't have any plans for a 5" two way though, so I'm not really inclined to buy a pair (Where's my "evaluation sample" :W )
Anyway, I'm not really testing much lately, but I'll make an exception if someone wants to send me a pair. Still have to finish the second order with the ER18 and the running joke of the year, my inability to really finish the dipole...
mark- Bottom
Comment
-
It sounds like Zaph and Madisound are going to be offering a few kits with these things.
Jed,
Aren't you working with Madisound on a new kit?
Seems like they might be making a bigger push for kits. More good kits in market is a good thing. :T
PE,
If you want to offer CJD and I $$ to offer the Khanspire, Khancenter, or In-Khan-Neato as a kit, I'm listening. :rofl:- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshI'm not a personal fan of the RS150 and RS125, so this is an interesting alternative.- Bottom
Comment
-
Lower Xmax and Sd compared with RS180; no better linear distortion, average CSD (another way of looking at linear distortion).
I mean, they're not "bad", but you can't really use them significantly higher in frequency (IMO) than the RS180, and with all the other disadvantages compared with the RS180, my usual reaction is, "Huh? Why bother?" All of these pretty much require either an all pass 3rd at 1800 or 4th at 2200, and I really don't care so much for the latter, because linear distortion effects (energy storage, seen in CSD and shaped sine burst testing) is getting deteriorating at 1400 Hz anyway. Significant resonance in the RS150 at 1800 Hz. The ER15RLY is significantly cleaner, with 25% higher rated Xmax to boot than the RS150. The RS150 has the edge in non-linear distortion, but both are probably low enough- so the other issues are more important to me. YMMV, of course. If you've got a situation you can cross over by 1200 or so, then the lower nonlinear distortion of the RS150 will take the day- but then why not use the Rs180?
I may be the odd man out here as regards my opinions- and I'm sure folks have built some speakers which they enjoy using these drivers- they just aren't my choices. (OK, I didn't wail on the RS125- about that big dip between 3K and 7 kHz, and the nice energy storage ridges at both those frequencies? With 3rd order HD amplification, it too should be crossed over below 2 kHz- that's a might small diameter driver for that limitation!
Of course, that's why I picked the RS100-4 as the midrange for the inexpensive version of the Ardent- relatively clean CSD for a metal cone driver, and no ridges in the 2 - 10 kHz area! You can actually use a relatively slow roll off with just a 15 kHz trap filter with this guy! (this is the same reasoning why I'm not so enamored with the Visaton TI100- which is a good performer if you're willing to cross it low.)
Now, what would really excite me is if John and Mad could bring out a driver with the response characteristics of the Accuton C79 at 1/4 the price - that would DEFINITELY be intriguing! And unlikely, too, of course. :W But if you don't ask for crème brulée, you'll keep getting vanilla ice cream.the AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
-
Hi all, thanks for the comments. My participation on this subject will be minimal since I don't want to seem like I'm pushing a commercial product. Rest assured I'm listening and taking notes though.
I have one pair I can borrow out for testing. Unfortunately, I would need them back however. They are part of my own personal 12 pulls from this batch. My designs I have here are a pair each of TM, MTM and MMTMM's. All those M's add up to 14. Eventually I want to just keep the MTM and MMTMM's around. Right now I've got a pair in my TM's, leaving one pair in the other MTM as loaners.
I can send one pair to one person or split them up and get 2 testers in. I think everyone who tests drivers has my email address, so get in touch. I've got other potential test drivers laying around if interested too.
Next batch I'll have more test units. (I'm personally testing for batch consistency)
Note to Jed: way to steal my thunder with that awesome looking kit. :B- Bottom
Comment
-
I wonder how many of these will sell just because it has Zaph's name on it.... opcorn:BE ALERT! The world needs more lerts.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by jkrutke
Note to Jed: way to steal my thunder with that awesome looking kit. :B
I'll have to do a kit with your driver next. Looks really great, John. Congrats.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Jed:T Honestly... I don't think many have noticed yet.
I'll have to do a kit with your driver next. Looks really great, John. Congrats.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by neb001Where is Jed's kit? I'm looking all over the madisound site and can't seem to find itFree support for loudspeaker projects, sourcing OEM speaker building supplies, and passive crossover design. We sell raw speaker drivers (tweeters, woofers, subwoofer, midrange drivers, full range drivers), speaker kits, amplifiers, capacitors, resistors, and inductors.
Put something soft under your chin so that you don't hurt yourself when your jaw drops and hits the keyboard.John- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by jkrutkeMy designs I have here are a pair each of TM, MTM and MMTMM's.
:BBeing defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
The Merlots
Scanspeak R2904/7000's, Scanspeak 15M4531K00's, Dayton RSS265HF-4's, MiniDSP 2x8, Class D amplification- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshThanks- I didn't see the PDF last night on my iPhone, it looks pretty good, though the HD3 curve has the peak around 3 kHz that I would expect- it's sort of an Excel W15CY-001 with 1.5 dB more sensitivity and at 1/4 the cost! I seem to recall that Excel was one of Zaph's favorites at one time.
Could make a killer little sealed MTM with these... but which tweeter? For parity, the tweeter shouldn't cost more than two of the midwoofers, right?
What do you want to bet John will have something like that posted soon? :W Of course, if I was doing it, I'd probably just use a modified Natalie P crossover concept (3rd order all pass, good vertical dispersion for an MTM configuration, and reasonable driver suppression).
Too bad I'm so busy already.... :W- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ray TremblayHey John, which tweet? I wanted to pull the trigger on a pair of these a few hours ago but I held off because I didn't know which tweeter you were using.
If Madisound is going to offer a kit of some kind you might want to wait because they usually offer a parts discount on the sum of the parts.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshLower Xmax and Sd compared with RS180; no better linear distortion, average CSD (another way of looking at linear distortion).
I mean, they're not "bad", but you can't really use them significantly higher in frequency (IMO) than the RS180, and with all the other disadvantages compared with the RS180, my usual reaction is, "Huh? Why bother?"
I may be the odd man out here as regards my opinions-
C- Bottom
Comment
-
Where is CJD to defend the RS150 when you need him?- Bottom
Comment
-
Heh.
To my ear the RS180 is ever so slightly clouded above about 800Hz relative to the RS150 - on the other hand, it may be additional distortion artifacts in the RS150. To resolve this once and for all I probably should try some other mid-woofers in similarly voiced systems.diVine Sound - my DIY speaker designs at diVine Audio- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by jkrutkeHi all, thanks for the comments. My participation on this subject will be minimal since I don't want to seem like I'm pushing a commercial product. Rest assured I'm listening and taking notes though.
I have one pair I can borrow out for testing. Unfortunately, I would need them back however. They are part of my own personal 12 pulls from this batch. My designs I have here are a pair each of TM, MTM and MMTMM's. All those M's add up to 14. Eventually I want to just keep the MTM and MMTMM's around. Right now I've got a pair in my TM's, leaving one pair in the other MTM as loaners.
I can send one pair to one person or split them up and get 2 testers in. I think everyone who tests drivers has my email address, so get in touch. I've got other potential test drivers laying around if interested too.
Next batch I'll have more test units. (I'm personally testing for batch consistency)
Note to Jed: way to steal my thunder with that awesome looking kit. :B- Bottom
Comment
-
I've seen several people comparing these to the RS drivers. I'm not taking a position on which is better. But, I think we all forget that the RS drivers are over 3 years old. It is going to be interesting to see what/if PE has in the pipeline.- Bottom
Comment
-
Yes, it reminds me of why I'm often attracted to shiny things! Combine it with a tweeter that's happy down low, and you could have all kinds of flexibility about crossover choices.
Don't you think you should do an open back MTM midrange with these, Javier, like your recent open baffle midrange three way? Can't you hear them calling to you? :Wthe AudioWorx
Natalie P
M8ta
Modula Neo DCC
Modula MT XE
Modula Xtreme
Isiris
Wavecor Ardent
SMJ
Minerva Monitor
Calliope
Ardent D
In Development...
Isiris Mk II updates- in final test stage!
Obi-Wan
Saint-Saëns Symphonique/AKA SMJ-40
Modula PWB
Calliope CC Supreme
Natalie P Ultra
Natalie P Supreme
Janus BP1 Sub
Resistance is not futile, it is Volts divided by Amperes...
Just ask Mr. Ohm....- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by JonMarshYes, it reminds me of why I'm often attracted to shiny things! Combine it with a tweeter that's happy down low, and you could have all kinds of flexibility about crossover choices.
Don't you think you should do an open back MTM midrange with these, Javier, like your recent open baffle midrange three way? Can't you hear them calling to you? :W- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by cjdHeh.
To my ear the RS180 is ever so slightly clouded above about 800Hz relative to the RS150 - on the other hand, it may be additional distortion artifacts in the RS150. To resolve this once and for all I probably should try some other mid-woofers in similarly voiced systems.
Regarding Zaph's new midrange, I'm excited!!! The data looks great!- Bottom
Comment
-
Nice looking driver. I like metal cones
Good frame
Good use of copper in the motor
Luverly flat response
9KHz main breakup (nice and high)
Good low non-linear distortion...
Consistency in production..
Then I thought - well, that's probably a $80+ (looks better on paper than the Seas L15 - excluding xmax and that is roughly $80 isn't it?)... and to see the ZA14W08 is only $39.... Way to go John! :T- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Ray TremblayHey John, which tweet? I wanted to pull the trigger on a pair of these a few hours ago but I held off because I didn't know which tweeter you were using.
Originally posted by TacoDI think the best selling point is a great design. And it looks like these are in the making. I wish you all the best. Any plans to make these drivers available in Europe?
As far as alternative vendors, I'm considering it. I've been contacted by a couple who are interested. One of the reasons I went with Madisound is that they have good international shipping policies. If I do allow other vendors, it will likely be through Madisound's dealer program. That will make Madisound the primary warehouse and still allow me a close local location to do my QC checks.
Could I ask a couple international folks what your average shipping cost in USD is from Madisound? For roughly something the size of a couple woofers, tweeters and misc parts for a 2-way pair.- Bottom
Comment
-
Zaph,
So this truly is your driver that Madisound is buying from you? I had assumed that Madisound had employed you to design a driver and lend your name to one of their products.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by jkrutkeProbably no surprise, Vifa DQ25. The MMTMM design needed all of it's 95 dB. As far as highly sensitive small flange tweeters, there's really only one choice.
Will this MMTMM design be a 2.5 way? What's the baffle width?Being defeated is often a temporary condition. Giving up is what makes it permanent.
The Merlots
Scanspeak R2904/7000's, Scanspeak 15M4531K00's, Dayton RSS265HF-4's, MiniDSP 2x8, Class D amplification- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Dave BulletNice looking driver. I like metal cones
Good frame
Good use of copper in the motor
Luverly flat response
9KHz main breakup (nice and high)
Good low non-linear distortion...
Consistency in production..
Then I thought - well, that's probably a $80+ (looks better on paper than the Seas L15 - excluding xmax and that is roughly $80 isn't it?)... and to see the ZA14W08 is only $39.... Way to go John! :T
I am going to buy a pair and use it in a 3-way of my own design (unless Jed is going to come up with one first, then I'll just use his). To me it just doesn't seem to have the extension for an MTM.- Bottom
Comment
-
Originally posted by Curt CYou may be in dubious company Jon, but I also felt the RS180 brought more to the table, -even as a mid, than the 150 or 125, for much the same reasons as you portend. The Exclamations! ran with the RS180 doing mid duties, before it was upgraded to the Accuton C92 and OW5.
CJavier Huerta- Bottom
Comment
Comment