Best tweeter for aroud 50$ ???

[rickp15]

I am going to build 2 dipole surrounds and 2 rears for my HT room. I will be using 4 Peerles 6.5 truncated woofs per speaker but I don't know what I should use for the tweeters?

My mains are line arrays with 10-6.5" Peerles for mid woofers, 10 Dayton pt8's ribbon tweeters and 2 15" Dayton woofers per side, all used with a active crossover, DCX 2496.

My center has 2 Eminance 12", Delta Pro 12A and a B&C 250 CD with a modified 12" Dayton round wave guide, also using a DCX 2496.

Please help, thanks in advance.

Rick

[LunarD]

SB-Acoustics SB29RDC-C000-4 Ring Dome tweeter

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8540

John

[Evil Twin]

Seas H1212

In this price range, I'm still inclined to recommend the venerable Seas H1212- otherwise known as the 27TBFCG, based on my own testing.







Family of curves: 0 degree, 15, 30, and 45, mounted on 9" wide baffle (PE 1 cu Ft MTM enclosure).



HD2 (solid) and HD3 (dashed). 90 dB output at 1M.


Here we have a tried and true Storm Trooper. Not very pretty, with the Hexgrid cover, but get's the job done surprisingly well, considering the low resource allocation. ($43.20 plus shipping). Due to it's phase shield, response holds up well to 15 kHz even to 45 degrees off axis. 30 degrees off axis looks as good as many competing models on axis.
Third order distortion is quite low from 2 kHz up.
And, most importantly, it comes in black.

Different trade-offs compared with the SB-Acoustics; below 20 kHz, has a much cleaner CSD, a factor I value highly in addition to non-linear distortion.


Seas H1212

[Paul Ebert]

In addition to the SB, any of the following are worth considering:

Vifa XT25
Vifa D26NC55 (if it's available)
B&G Neo3
Dayton RS28
Seas DXT (though, perhaps not for surrounds)

[Jed]

SB-Acoustics SB29RDC-C000-4 Ring Dome tweeter

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=8540

John

Agreed.

The Seas H1212 is also good, but I'd be inclined to say the SB29 is more versatile given it's more extended low end.

I just finished up a speaker using the SB and it's a very good tweeter with flat response. Nice detail as well.

[rickp15]

What if I spend up to 75$, I like the suggestions so far.

I am not sure I like my B&C 250 compression driver with the wave guide, I have not not run any sweeps yet but at this point just out of the box, I don't like the way it sounds at all, to hissy if thats a word.

[dlneubec]

For $77 or $78 you might want to take a look at the Peerless HDS (810921) tweeter. Here is what Zaph says about it:

"Peerless finally creates a world class tweeter to compete with the best from Seas and Scan-Speak. Very low distortion levels and smooth, controllable response. Minor FR dip at 6.5kHz. Beautiful cast metal frame. Reasonable price. There's not much to complain about here and this is one of the best in the group."

[ttan98]

What if I spend up to 75$, I like the suggestions so far.

I am not sure I like my B&C 250 compression driver with the wave guide, I have not not run any sweeps yet but at this point just out of the box, I don't like the way it sounds at all, to hissy if thats a word.

Mine is not hissy at all, I like my combo B&C DE250 and RCF H100 horn very dynamic and smooth. Many users reported the same observations.

[LING GOWA]

For $77 or $78 you might want to take a look at the Peerless HDS (810921) tweeter. Here is what Zaph says about it:

"Peerless finally creates a world class tweeter to compete with the best from Seas and Scan-Speak. Very low distortion levels and smooth, controllable response. Minor FR dip at 6.5kHz. Beautiful cast metal frame. Reasonable price. There's not much to complain about here and this is one of the best in the group."

I would have to agree. I've heard this tweeter in an Eton build and it sounded great.

[Paul Ebert]

Make that three for the HDS. Personally, I'd really like to give that one a try.

Regarding your B&C, that's a pretty sensitive driver I assume. Are you sure you're not hearing noise from the rest of your system?

[Jed]

The one thing the HDS has going for it over the SB29 is a metal flange.

[rickp15]

I would like to change my stance on the B&C driver, in my comment this morning I stated I had a modified driver and wave guide which was true but I had just modfied it right before I posted. I brought it home and hooked it up and wow what a difference. The B&C is a bolt on driver and the wave guide is a screw on, so I had to use an adapter that bolted to the driver allowing the wave guide to screw on to the adapter. The problem was that the adapter ID was >1/8 smaller than the ID of the wave guide making a significant step in the throat area. I put the adapter in the lathe and put a 5 degree taper on the ID which matched up fairly well, then I took a bearing scraper which looks like a triangle file only no teeth and 3 very sharp edges, I scraped the plastic until it flowed smoothly into the adapters new taper, it looks like it was designed that way. Anyhow, I realized I do have system noise, crap! The step in the throat was making the noise 100 times worse. I can still hear the system noise or electronic hum. I have tried different amps and crossovers with no change in the noise. I ran a separate 100 amp service to my HT room, all the plugs have grounds to the service panel and the service panel goes out to the main panel and ground so I wouldn't have this problem, Any ideas on how to deal with it?

The surrounds will be dipole and the rears monopole. Would the dipoles be better on a sort of V angle off the wall (ala Klipsch) or firing straight towards the front and back walls.

I think the purchase of 6 Peerless tweeters is in order, I will check them out tuesday.

[dlneubec]

I don't know about that, Jed.

To my eye, the CSD looks better on the HDS and the harmonic distortion is lower in general, but especially below 2000hz where all orders begins to rise on the SB29 where they actually drop or stay even on the HDS. The higher order distortion F4 and F5 are off the map low on the HDS. About the only thing comparable there is the Scan 7100 at $300. Whether these things translate into improved sound is debatable and largely a matter of opinion, but anyone can make the comparisons on Zaph's tweeter mishmash themselves.

I certainly will be using the SB29 and at the $50 price point it is a great value, IMO. Still, I'm not sure there is any tweeter he's tested that looks better than the Peerless HDS at any price point. But that' just my opinion.

Tweeter Mishmash comparison

[JonMarsh]

The one thing the HDS has going for it over the SB29 is a metal flange.

That I'll agree with... :yesnod: :W

Of course, everyone has their own priorities... for some it may be a metal flange... for others, CSD behavior...

It's like what you like in women...

[JonMarsh]

I don't know about that, Jed.

To my eye, the CSD looks better on the HDS and the harmonic distortion is lower in general, but especially below 2000hz where all orders begins to rise on the SB29 where they actually drop or stay even on the HDS. The higher order distortion F4 and F5 are off the map low on the HDS. About the only thing comparable there is the Scan 7100 at $300. Whether these things translate into improved sound is debatable and largely a matter of opinion, but anyone can make the comparisons on Zaph's tweeter mishmash themselves.

I certainly will be using the SB29 and at the $50 price point it is a great value, IMO. Still, I'm not sure there is any tweeter he's tested that looks better than the Peerless HDS at any price point. But that' just my opinion.

Tweeter Mishmash comparison

There's different trade-offs for certain- sometimes you just have to set your priorities and stick with them- ultimately, we all vote with our pocket book.

Of course, it all depends on your specific application, and for a three way with a true midrange, there's more flexibility on crossover points and tweeter criteria.

For example, I've found that both CSD behavior and non-linear distortion (especially high order) seem to correlate with what works well for a tweeter for me, what helps it "disappear" in a well designed system. So for example, I tend to prefer the T25CF001 over the Millenium Excel- which if I was crossing it over at 1400 Hz, as SL does, wouldn't make much sense- but in a "real" three way with a midrange that is comfortable to 2500 Hz to 3 kHz, I prefer the T25CF001. The factory curves don't look all that special, but I think this is one of the best sounding Seas tweeters, because it's easy to make it not have a "sound". I don't expect it to preform in the same league as a SS D3004/662001, but then it's about 1/3 the cost. And for a reasonable 3 way design, it's very good.

Just color me odd, I guess. I haven't seen anything in the HDS data others have measured to convince me to fork out my own money and take a shot at it, compared with other parts I use. YMMV, of course, that's what makes it interesting, few people are going around building the same things.

[ttan98]

I would like to change my stance on the B&C driver, in my comment this morning I stated I had a modified driver and wave guide which was true but I had just modfied it right before I posted. I brought it home and hooked it up and wow what a difference. The B&C is a bolt on driver and the wave guide is a screw on, so I had to use an adapter that bolted to the driver allowing the wave guide to screw on to the adapter. The problem was that the adapter ID was >1/8 smaller than the ID of the wave guide making a significant step in the throat area. I put the adapter in the lathe and put a 5 degree taper on the ID which matched up fairly well, then I took a bearing scraper which looks like a triangle file only no teeth and 3 very sharp edges, I scraped the plastic until it flowed smoothly into the adapters new taper, it looks like it was designed that way. Anyhow, I realized I do have system noise, crap! The step in the throat was making the noise 100 times worse. I can still hear the system noise or electronic hum. I have tried different amps and crossovers with no change in the noise. I ran a separate 100 amp service to my HT room, all the plugs have grounds to the service panel and the service panel goes out to the main panel and ground so I wouldn't have this problem, Any ideas on how to deal with it?

You may like to try a new waveguide more like a horn RCF H100, you can get them from Loudspeakers Plus(looks like back in stock), now for $49 each( I got mine for $28 each way back then). You get a good fit and at the same with minimal electrical equalization. Most importantly the combo sounds good as well.

[rickp15]

ttan98,

I ordered an RFC H100 off Ebay this morning for 24$ plus shipping, cheap enough to give it a try. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Jed]

I don't know about that, Jed.

To my eye, the CSD looks better on the HDS and the harmonic distortion is lower in general, but especially below 2000hz where all orders begins to rise on the SB29 where they actually drop or stay even on the HDS. The higher order distortion F4 and F5 are off the map low on the HDS. About the only thing comparable there is the Scan 7100 at $300. Whether these things translate into improved sound is debatable and largely a matter of opinion, but anyone can make the comparisons on Zaph's tweeter mishmash themselves.

I certainly will be using the SB29 and at the $50 price point it is a great value, IMO. Still, I'm not sure there is any tweeter he's tested that looks better than the Peerless HDS at any price point. But that' just my opinion.

Tweeter Mishmash comparison

The HDS does appear better in some areas but the SB29 is more versatile IMO with a more extended response, it's cheaper, looks great, but has a plastic flange. For another 30bucks you should get something. Try hitting LR2 with the HDS without overexcursion.

I agree with Jon that it is wise to look for tweeters with low high order distortion products. And as price increases, those products should lower to get you something for the money, which is why my higher end speakers use drivers that deliver that... like the Airc Circ 6600 for example. It has it all; extended response, low distortion, clean CSD, nice looking metal flange.

Compromises. However, I think the SB29, at $49bucks does a lot for the $$$.

My one line sentence in the last post wasn't entirely clear. I also hope that Peerless availability stays strong. Have you noticed one Peerless product after another is getting phased out?

Jed

[LING GOWA]

My one line sentence in the last post wasn't entirely clear. I also hope that Peerless availability stays strong. Have you noticed one Peerless product after another is getting phased out?

Jed

Yes, I've noticed that. It looks like Vifa and Peerless have chosen a new direction with new products soon to come.
All I can say about the Peerless HDS is that I've heard it and had to ask what tweeter is that and when I found it to be the HDS, I was very surprised.
At present, I am awaiting the new metal dome tweeter from SB. Madisound expects this tweeter very soon. The specs look very good and again, the price point is quite affordable.

[Bear]

Of course, going the opposite direction on price, the D26NC55 is down to $28. :E :T

[JonMarsh]

Of course, going the opposite direction on price, the D26NC55 is down to $28. :E :T

All things come to those who wait, but not forever?

May have to stock up a bit on those after my next bucks on crossover parts!

[mgrabow]

For $77 or $78 you might want to take a look at the Peerless HDS (810921) tweeter. Here is what Zaph says about it:

"Peerless finally creates a world class tweeter to compete with the best from Seas and Scan-Speak. Very low distortion levels and smooth, controllable response. Minor FR dip at 6.5kHz. Beautiful cast metal frame. Reasonable price. There's not much to complain about here and this is one of the best in the group."

Good to know...

[Bear]

Good to know...

You will want to look at the Discovery line from ScanSpeak at this point as well (D2608), since they are the same:

http://www.madisound.com/manufacturers/scan-speak/discovery-speakers/tweeters.php

The link on the Peerless area for tweeters goes to the ScanSpeak web page at Madisound. :T

[JonMarsh]

And having bought and tested and listened to the D2608/9130, I'm rather a fan of it, as it is being used in a number of projects I'm working on, including the Modula MT MkII- basically, anything short of an all out assault on the pocket book.

From a couple of posts, I think Jed is somewhat more enamored of it now, too. Some you've just got to listen to. Wish they could make a small format version of this with a Neo Tweeter- no reason I can see that wouldn't be possible, as it seems to have a minimal rear chamber. Somewhat old school design with a few twists, but it measures well and sounds good. I think it's more neutral than the Air Circ D3004/662000- speaking from listening and measuring experience.

[Jed]

From a couple of posts, I think Jed is somewhat more enamored of it now, too.

Yes, very much so.

[villastrangiato]

For traditional dome tweeters, the SEAS 27TBFC/G and 27TDFC seem pretty hard to beat. You get a proven design from a reputable European firm known for building high quality components. The only real choice between the two is whether you're looking for slightly better low end performance (TDFC) or slightly better top octave performance (TBFC/G). The SB ring radiator is a great value as well but its usability down low is pretty questionable. Being able to cross cleanly down low with reasonable output produces clearly audible improvements in most any design - you effectively have the means to achieve a solution overall that is closer to a point source. So, my vote would be for the 27TDFC.

For large format tweeters, the BG NEO 3 to me is really a no brainer. There certainly are other ribbon and planar drivers that rival it in certain areas - but they generally cost mucho dinero and have significant issues like limited bandwidth, higher distortion, cumbersome dimensions....etc...

[ClosetSciFiGeek]

To hit that $50 mark how would the Dayton RS52AN-8(currently $40.78) and ND20FB-4(currently $7.96) using Zaph's crossover design for the upper portion of the ZDT3.5 fare in this comparison. A lot of you guys have tested and heard more speakers. Would this compare to the tweeters discussed? You could definitely cross lower than the tweeters discussed above allowing for a wider choice of mid-woofer. For instance it might be paired with some more difficult to implement drivers like the Seas L16RN-SL or even a larger woofer like a Dayton RS225S-8 or even possibly a Dayton RS270S-8. Zaph crosses at 850hz LR2.