WWYD 2 new Tempests vs 2 Shiva Is

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  • Lex
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Apr 2001
    • 27461

    WWYD 2 new Tempests vs 2 Shiva Is

    There you have it, what would you do? I may come into a couple of Tempests in the not to distant future. Any ideas on what I should build?

    I considered 2 sealed subs vs. 2 ported like I have now. What will I gain in tightness? What will I loose in volumn of output?

    Will the new tempest be comparible to the original shiva in driver tightness? Even though the Tempest is a 15? Of course, given that I do not integrate subs with my 2 channel system now, maybe I should stick with the ported?

    I would just try to retrofit my existing cabinets, but not sure how well that would work out, given cabinet constraints and port locations.

    Curious to hear you folks ideas!

    Thanks,
    Lex
    Doug
    "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer
  • Andrew Pratt
    Moderator Emeritus
    • Aug 2000
    • 16507

    #2
    well since you're getting almost twice the output potential with the tempest over the shiva SPL's aren't going to be a problem...I'd still go for ported with a tune around 18 hz and a volume around 200 - 250 liters per tempest but then thats what I have experince with




    Comment

    • JonMarsh
      Mad Max Moderator
      • Aug 2000
      • 15313

      #3
      Hi Lex,

      Just decide what you want, then go for it.

      There are always trade-offs between enclosure size, low frequency extension, transient response (a function of tuning alignment and Q), etc.

      What suits your current requirements the best? If it's ultimate output in the stygnian depths of the low end, then a large ported enclosure tuned to the 16-18 Hz region may be your best bet. If it's the tightest, cleanest bass in room for music, with little or no external EQ, a sealed box large enough to result in a box Q of 0.5 to 0.577 is the way to go; this provides a gentle slow roll off, which is lifted by normal boundary loading to flat in room; it also provides critically damped transient response.

      If space is an issue, and you're willing to make some tradeoffs regarding enclosures size and power handling, then a compact box with a Linkwitz transform equalizer (like the Marchand Basis) and a ballsy amp should do it for you.

      If you're a little wacked out like I am, though, you might take four Tempests and make them the bottom end of a full range dipole lousdpeaker system.... at least, that's what I'm doing with mine.

      Best regards,

      Jon




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      Comment

      • Lex
        Moderator Emeritus
        • Apr 2001
        • 27461

        #4
        Well, to be honest, I don't even know when I will have time for this project. My company keeps me so busy now. (CAT)

        But I guess I will get the Tempests anyway, in hopes of having time for this project "someday".

        Thanks for the input guys. ThomasW has nothing to say about this? :?

        Lex
        Doug
        "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

        Comment

        • ThomasW
          Moderator Emeritus
          • Aug 2000
          • 10933

          #5
          ThomasW has nothing to say about this?
          I'd suggest using a couple of BluePrint 1503.

          But given the limited space on the wall where your current subs are placed, and the large magnets on the 1503, I'd think there would be problems with the magnets interferring with the RPTV.

          As a result any upgrade would require a complete rebuild of the HT, including a move to a FPTV. This would provide adequate space for the larger cabinets necessary to get optimal performance from bigger/better subs. Using either Tempests or 1503's would mean 2 cabinets of 7+ cu ft each. So space and placement would be a significant issue.

          It might be possible to use a pair of Blueprint 1203's. These would play louder than the shiva's but probably not deeper unless larger cabinets and or a Marchand Bassis (Linkwitz-Transform circuit) were used.




          theAudioWorx
          Klone-Audio

          IB subwoofer FAQ page


          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

          Comment

          • Lex
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Apr 2001
            • 27461

            #6
            What is a blueprint 1503? Is that like balanced and blueprinted? lol.

            Actually Thomas, the Tempests are a trade deal, so it's not possible for me to consider alternate drivers in this arrangement. Adire Audio will be using CATs. Now Dan was perfectly prepared to purchase them, but I suggested the trade.

            So, anyway, I will have the Tempests, I can use or sell, or just keep for the future, whatever.

            I think the Tempests will work for me, it's just a matter of optimizing what space I have for them.

            No?

            Lex
            Doug
            "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

            Comment

            • ThomasW
              Moderator Emeritus
              • Aug 2000
              • 10933

              #7
              Probably need to run with sealed Tempests, because properly sized ported boxes aren't going to easily fit in the existing space




              theAudioWorx
              Klone-Audio

              IB subwoofer FAQ page


              "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

              Comment

              • AndrewM
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2000
                • 446

                #8
                I went with a single sealed Tempest, it's sitting in about 6.4cu/ft (heavily stuffed), bottom firing. The enclosure is pretty big (21"x21"x26"), and moderatly braced (it still weighs in around 80-90lbs with driver and amp).

                And I'm very happy with it, it's corner loaded and is more than ample to shake the room up. LspCad says that I should have an F3 around 30Hz or so Anechoic, so in room I'm down in the 20's. I have it hooked up to a 250w plate amp that I got from Parts Express and I have all the SPL I want as well (processor set at 0db, and the amp is at about 1/3 volume). And it just sounds so nice for music, so it's a nice "dual purpose" setup.

                Andrew

                Comment

                • Lex
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Apr 2001
                  • 27461

                  #9
                  Any pictures Andrew? Sorry, late back to the party, it takes me a while to make my rounds, lol.

                  The Tempests are on their way! Just planning this will take some serious time, balancing with my company and all.

                  thanks guys for the responses, how much are these crossover jobbies you guys are talking about, this Marchand thingie? As you can tell, I don't get into speaker mechanics much.

                  I am curious though.

                  Lex
                  Doug
                  "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                  Comment

                  • AndrewM
                    Senior Member
                    • Oct 2000
                    • 446

                    #10
                    Hey Lex,

                    I don't have any pics at the moment, but there's not much to look at anyways. The dimensions I gave earlier were internal, so externally it's 22.5" x 22.5" x 27.5", and since it's bottom firing it's sittin on 4" legs. So it has a total height of 31.5". It's painted semi-gloss black all over, which was a quick job (read - Looks bad by itself, but disappears in the corner). Also, I bought the amp from Parts Express, the 250W setup with the Front mounted volume and x-over controls.

                    So it's just a big black box...not much to look at.

                    Actually I've been thinking of rebuilding the thing, go with a front firing setup and veneering the whole thing up with something a little more exotic looking. But I've got to many other projects on my plate that who knows when I'll get to that...

                    Andrew

                    Comment

                    • Lex
                      Moderator Emeritus
                      • Apr 2001
                      • 27461

                      #11
                      Gotcha! I will just picture a cardboard box with black paint smeared on it, and a speaker hanging out the bottom of it. You really should do something about that swag on the bottom of it.

                      Lex
                      Doug
                      "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                      Comment

                      • ThomasW
                        Moderator Emeritus
                        • Aug 2000
                        • 10933

                        #12
                        Lex

                        The Marchand XM9KK ($249)Stereo 2-way. This is the bare bones kit where the builder identifies and solders all the components to the PCB's. Then bolts everything together, and does the point to point wiring

                        electronic crossover, analog crossover, active crossover, discrete crossover,internally balanced


                        Last summer I helped a friend make a single 12 cu ft sealed tube sub with a top and bottom mounted Tempests. It's sounds very very good.




                        theAudioWorx
                        Klone-Audio

                        IB subwoofer FAQ page


                        "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                        Comment

                        • Lex
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Apr 2001
                          • 27461

                          #13
                          Ok, exactly how does this Marchand work with the two subs? I really have no clue, says it's a crossover, but do I really need a crossover, I mean, if my MC-1 is saying what frequency to send to the subs already?

                          I just don't understand how this is supposed to work. BTW, the Tempests arrived today! :-) No telling how long before this project gets off the ground though.

                          Lex
                          Doug
                          "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                          Comment

                          • ThomasW
                            Moderator Emeritus
                            • Aug 2000
                            • 10933

                            #14
                            Well you wouldn't use the Marchand if you're using the LFE out on the MC-1.

                            I thought you had a analog pre-amp being used for a stereo system. If so, you put the Marchand after the pre-amp and before the power amps.




                            theAudioWorx
                            Klone-Audio

                            IB subwoofer FAQ page


                            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                            Comment

                            • Lex
                              Moderator Emeritus
                              • Apr 2001
                              • 27461

                              #15
                              Well, the subs are for more big bang stuff really. Yes, LFE from MC1.

                              I currently run my music "subless", but not bottomless. The GPs do pretty well on bass really for music.
                              Doug
                              "I'm out there Jerry, and I'm loving every minute of it!" - Kramer

                              Comment

                              • Huskerduck
                                Moderator Emeritus
                                • Oct 2000
                                • 129

                                #16
                                well I would build 2 of these


                                and sell 1 for around $800 not only paying for the one you have but leaving you with $500 too play with or if you dont have time to build them gimme a holler and pump out more cables




                                Mark


                                Ducks Meager Theater
                                Mark


                                Ducks Meager Theater

                                Comment

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