Death of Dualzilla ??? Time for a new Maelstrom sub?

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  • ---k---
    Ultra Senior Member
    • Nov 2005
    • 5204

    Death of Dualzilla ??? Time for a new Maelstrom sub?

    Now that my In-Khan-Neatos are nearing completion, I'm thinking about my next project. I'm considering selling my pair of Soundsplinter RL-p15 D4 and replacing them with a single Maelstrom-X. I would put it in a version of Neo Dan's Easy Button End Table : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1093893 This is probably a very lateral move, so I'm looking for a little push one direction or another.

    Pros:
    The ported end table box would be almost 1/2 the size. This would make my wife very happy and is the biggest motivation.

    If I could get ~$200 per RL-p15, it would almost pay for the Maelstrom. (Is this realistic?)

    Hopefully would be a bit cleaner, especially down low. My current one seems to really generate a lot of rumbling.

    The Maelstrom has a much lower Le, so you don't get that big hump in the response. I was told when I built the my dual RL-p15 that you don't really get the hump Unibox predicts. But, my measurements do show a hump there, that I was attributing to the room, but...

    It would keep me busy for a while.

    Cons:

    I would give up a little output. I'm not sure how much. I'm happy with what I have now, so I'm not looking for more. I just want to make sure I'm not giving up too much. This is probably my biggest concern. Kevin suggested a passive radiator build, but with squeezing it a corner between the wall and a sofa, I would have to do something firing up or down to avoid firing into the sofa.

    Dan's End Table box is small and rolls off the low end. I'm not sure how much room gain I pick up in that location to fill in the bottom end. It seems like the low end just goes right up the open stair way. I originally had sealed subs, and never was really happy with the low end rumble, even with a DEQ. The ported, gives me a fun rumble and shakes my chair - although maybe too much.



    The Unibox models are attached. Any thoughts?

    Click image for larger version

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    - Ryan

    CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center
  • Johnloudb
    Super Senior Member
    • May 2007
    • 1877

    #2
    Any possibility of two end tables in two corners for stereo subs? Some say stereo subs make a difference. I can't really say since I've only used stereo subs for the most part, except for our mono sub used with our TV system upstairs. Not really a fair comparison. It might be sort of a compromise with your wife. You'd still get the output and it'd look nicer?
    John unk:

    "Why can't we all just, get along?" ~ Jack Nicholson (Mars Attacks)

    My Website (hyperacusis, tinnitus, my story)

    Comment

    • ---k---
      Ultra Senior Member
      • Nov 2005
      • 5204

      #3
      Not really. Here is a picture of the current room:



      Other than the opposite corner being taken up by equipment, I tried a pair of sealed subs up front in the corners. Something about that opposite corner where the gear is causes a huge, deep null at my seat and didn't work well - both according to the REQW graphs and my ear. I didn't even like the pair of subs located where the speakers are now. The current location doesn't get as much room gain, but doesn't have nulls.

      And besides, a pair of Maelstroms would be way over the budget. I'm not that unsatisfied.

      My gut tells me that I would probably wouldn't be giving up enough to notice the difference, but....

      Oh, the room is L-shaped. The main area is 17'x17', with the toe area about 5'x10' and std. 8' ceilings. There is a 3' wide open stair case at the rear.
      Last edited by theSven; 08 July 2023, 20:24 Saturday. Reason: Update image location
      - Ryan

      CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
      CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
      CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

      Comment

      • Johnloudb
        Super Senior Member
        • May 2007
        • 1877

        #4
        I know what you're talking about. We get a very deep null in our listening room when we place the speakers along the short wall, -20dB around 40-50Hz. It also had a big peak at 25Hz. Before we got subs we didn't really notice the null, and the peak at 25 helped supplement the low end of our full range speakers. With subs added it sounded horrible though, and we moved the speakers to the long wall. The bass sounds just really clean there. So, you got do what works.

        I doubt I'd be disappointed with one Maelstrom. I'm just trying get my two 10" TL subs going. Finally getting this crossover wired up, and waiting for an amp to be repaired.
        John unk:

        "Why can't we all just, get along?" ~ Jack Nicholson (Mars Attacks)

        My Website (hyperacusis, tinnitus, my story)

        Comment

        • Dennis H
          Ultra Senior Member
          • Aug 2002
          • 3798

          #5
          Hey Ryan, small speakers suck!

          Comment

          • ThomasW
            Moderator Emeritus
            • Aug 2000
            • 10933

            #6
            Why are you comparing the 18" in a 226L Fb 12 Hz, to the dual RLP15" in a 420L box Fb 15.5Hz? That's apples vs oranges.

            If you want a 226L Fb 12Hz box build one, and put both RPL15"s in it.

            IB subwoofer FAQ page


            "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

            Comment

            • ---k---
              Ultra Senior Member
              • Nov 2005
              • 5204

              #7
              Interesting question. I knew I could count on you.

              I looked at putting both RL-P15 in a 226L box. The models show it isn't hugely different than a sealed box the same size.

              Maybe I should just go back to the dual sealed and pump more eq into it to make it what I want. The boxes are in the crawl space. It's been on my long list of to-dos to get them back out and experiment.

              I'm taking it you don't see enough of a benefit of the XBL and lower Fs to make it worth trading 2 RL-p15 for 1 Mal-X.
              - Ryan

              CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
              CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
              CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

              Comment

              • Bent
                Super Senior Member
                • Sep 2003
                • 1570

                #8
                I don't know how 8ft^3 would work work with 2 D4 Rl-P's sealed at 1200 watts...
                or would I?
                :T

                I've been pretty happy.

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                Comment

                • ThomasW
                  Moderator Emeritus
                  • Aug 2000
                  • 10933

                  #9
                  Nothing against the Mal-X but in this situation I don't see what's gained.

                  With separate boxes you have the potential to change the in-room performance by changing their relative locations.

                  If you're feeling adventurous you could cut the ported box in 1/2, Remove the round port then rebuild them as a pair of slot loaded boxes.

                  IB subwoofer FAQ page


                  "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                  Comment

                  • dynamowhum
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2006
                    • 260

                    #10
                    Bent that is a nice looking sub

                    Comment

                    • ---k---
                      Ultra Senior Member
                      • Nov 2005
                      • 5204

                      #11
                      Originally posted by ThomasW
                      Nothing against the Mal-X but in this situation I don't see what's gained.
                      The only possible gain would be reducing the box size by 1/2 and still having similar output potential.

                      I think the thing to do is just get the sealed boxes back out and remember what motivated me do the big ported box.
                      - Ryan

                      CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                      CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                      CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                      Comment

                      • ---k---
                        Ultra Senior Member
                        • Nov 2005
                        • 5204

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bent
                        I don't know how 8ft^3 would work work with 2 D4 Rl-P's sealed at 1200 watts...
                        or would I?
                        Very nice. Is that really only 226L? It looks much bigger than that.
                        - Ryan

                        CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                        CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                        CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                        Comment

                        • ThomasW
                          Moderator Emeritus
                          • Aug 2000
                          • 10933

                          #13
                          Originally posted by ---k---
                          The only possible gain would be reducing the box size by 1/2 and still having similar output potential.
                          The Vas for 2 RL-p15"s is a bit lower than one Mal-X. So box size for either setup is basically the same.

                          Vd for 2 RL-p15" is basically the same as one Mal-X

                          Yes dig out the sealed boxes and play with them

                          IB subwoofer FAQ page


                          "Complicated equipment and light reflectors and various other items of hardware are enough, to my mind, to prevent the birdie from coming out." ...... Henri Cartier-Bresson

                          Comment

                          • Bent
                            Super Senior Member
                            • Sep 2003
                            • 1570

                            #14
                            it's 22" x 22"x48" exterior, and all outer surfaces are doubled 3/4 mdf, so taking into account the interior bracing and displacement of the drivers, it's just a hair over 8ft^3 inside.

                            Comment

                            • WillyD
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2006
                              • 675

                              #15
                              Originally posted by ThomasW
                              Nothing against the Mal-X but in this situation I don't see what's gained.

                              With separate boxes you have the potential to change the in-room performance by changing their relative locations.

                              If you're feeling adventurous you could cut the ported box in 1/2, Remove the round port then rebuild them as a pair of slot loaded boxes.
                              I agree, and I own a Mal-X.

                              Comment

                              • ---k---
                                Ultra Senior Member
                                • Nov 2005
                                • 5204

                                #16
                                Well okay then. I guess it is settled. Save my $$. Probably need it for a fancy new processor that can decode all the codecs from my BluRay.

                                Now to find some free time....
                                - Ryan

                                CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                Comment

                                • chasw98
                                  Super Senior Member
                                  • Jan 2006
                                  • 1360

                                  #17
                                  And I was looking forward to buying one of your RL-P15's!

                                  Comment

                                  • ---k---
                                    Ultra Senior Member
                                    • Nov 2005
                                    • 5204

                                    #18
                                    Well, that makes me want to keep them even more.
                                    - Ryan

                                    CJD Ochocinco! ND140/BC25SC06 MTM & TM
                                    CJD Khanspires - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS225 WMTMW
                                    CJD Khancenter - A Dayton RS28/RS150/RS180 WTMW Center

                                    Comment

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