Need help. Sold my reference speakers. Now I want something bigger...

[fjhuerta]

I didn't really sell them. My parents sold their speakers (my Monoliths), and I gave them the Miniliths (with a neat Tempest 15"). So now I need (heh) to build something.

The Monoliths had a pair of 830884 Peerless woofers. So they had ample bass power.

The Miniliths have a Seas P21REX. But, as I said before, they come with a Tempest 15" sealed sub. So they have more than enough bass.

My next project needs to have "more than enough bass". I do know how extreme some of you guys are, so I have to say - there's a limit here, and my wife will probably make sure I don't get even close to it.

So, according to my needs, experience, budget and size estimate, I've narrowed the choices I have to two options (three, if necessary).

1. The Dayton RS-270. I can live with a sealed cabinet of about 50~60 liters without much issue.

2. The Dayton RSS210HF. Added benefit: smaller sealed cabinet, or similar ported one, with extra power way down low.

3. The Dayton RSS265HF. Not as big a box as the 270, and I'm sure, a LOT more power down low.

Now, for the upper part of the speaker. It'll use a pair of Dayton RS-150 mids on an MTM arrangement, crossing over to an RS28a. Crossover point in the upper end will probably be around 1.6 KHz. Lower crossover would be around 300~400 Hz.

I've simulated the speaker countless times. I know the RS-150's won't give up before the woofers do. What I've found is that the RS-270 gives up quicker than either sub, BUT it has a ton more efficiency (around 6 dB/W!) than either one of them. This also disqualified the Aura NS-10 - I'm going entirely passive (no budget for twin sub amps).

I suppose I should go with the RS-270. I just need some more input regarding pros and cons I'm not considering. I'd definitely love to use the RSS210HO (or the Aura NS 10 - same price!) - something about its looks and using it with the RS150's sounds interesting. And I could probably ignore the MTM design and go with a simple TMW arrangement (again, I know the RS-150s will work out perfectly well).

So, what do you think?

[TacoD]

In a 3-way setup I would go for the RS-270, I think it will be a better match in spl and sound to the rs-150.

[fjhuerta]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Even though I'd love to get the subs, it doesn't make any sense unless I'm willing to buy a dedicated amp for each driver.

The RS270 has a good price point, too.

[Dennis H]

Zaph compared the RS270 to the RSS315 and the RS270 did as well at equal SPL as long as you kept it below Xmax. He said the RS270 did better but I didn't really see that from the distortion curves. But, given the RS270's better sensitivity, it looks like the obvious choice.

[Jed]

I'd use a pair of L26s for the most cost effective driver for low coloration below 100hz.

Each has there own unique applications and characteristics.

Seas L26 85dbs


Seas Excel W26 :E


Dayton RS270s

[fjhuerta]

That Seas is stunning!

Well, I already made up my mind. Based on my budget, I couldn't get all the stuff I wanted (grille cloth, wires, Jasper Jig, etc.) with either Dayton, and I already have a set of RS225's I'll use later.

So I decided on the Usher 8137a. At their sale price, they barely fit within my budget (4 of them!) and my needs.

I like the controlled vertical directivity of MTM's, so I'll go for a WWMTM or a WMTMW. Actually Jed, I'd love to know how you design an open baffle mid. Do they sound anything like electrostatic speakers?

[Jed]

Actually Jed, I'd love to know how you design an open baffle mid. Do they sound anything like electrostatic speakers?

The problem isn't so much designing for an open baffle mid... it's open baffle bass-- which isn't something I've spent a lot of time working on because of the active circuitry that is often required. For open baffle mids, I took measurements just like I do for monopoles.

The phrase about electrostatic speakers is a bit confusing. I used to own a pair of Audiostatic loudspeakers with the optional bass panels. While they had a wonderful midrange with no box colorations and a large soundstage, they had their share of problems like limited dynamic range and a treble that required a head in a vice sweet spot... so if you are referring to the better qualities--- then, yes, I would say open baffle mids have similar characteristics as the electrostatic.

[BOBinGA]

Jed,
Do you have any distorion measurements on the RS225? I used it instead of the RS270 mainly because I could use a less than 2 cu.ft. ported box and get down to 40 hz. I couldn't do this with a RS270. I haven't seen any comparison of the distortion on these two, and I would like to see what I'm giving up, if anything.

Javier,
Once you do an open baffle mid, you will never go back to a box. I used a RS150 open back and a RS225 in a ported box and they work fine together. You do have to pad the RS150 down a bit to match efficiencies though. I used a 5 ohm resistor in series with the RS150. This is a perfect time to try an open back mid if you are still in the planning stages for a new build.

-Bob

[Face]

Jed, which Excel W26 is that, the Nextel or Aluminum cone? Thanks!

[fjhuerta]

When I mentioned the "electrostatic sound" I meant the open, airy (for the lack of better terms) mids. I used to own a set of Martin Logans, and mids and highs seemed to be box-less... so much transparency and delicacy.

Their cons outweighed their pros, though, and I ended up selling them.