Khan... inspired HT?

[jagman]

My wife and I put an offer on a house and we'll get the answer early this week. If we get the house, I won't be able to go with my previous plan for speakers (the full size Statement towers). Required speaker location makes sealed front speakers a must... and I really like the RS225 woofers.

So one option would be to make three large sealed Frodaddy Statement Centers and use them as horizontal LCRs (since they are not only sealed but do not have the open back mid). I would then use the Statement Monitors as surrounds. The only problem is they would need to hang from the ceiling. I'm a little worried about how that might actually work... especially since the HT will be in a loft and the speakers will be visible from the formal living room. As much as I'm really intrigued by the titanium mid and Fountek ribbon, I have my concern about the practicality of the surrounds in my particular situation.

Another option would be to do two Khanspires, one Khancenter and four In-Khan-Neatos (as built in ceiling mounted surrounds). The latter would be simpler and look better (and despite being ceiling mounted, they should sound reasonably good). I could also have three Khancenters and use them as LCRs. The thing is... I really like the RS225 woofers. Accordingly, I could go with the W-M/T-W speakers found in this thread. My understanding is the ones with the crossover done by cjd should mate with the In-Khan-Neatos reasonably well. If I went with those W-M/T-W speakers, I could make three of them and use them as LCRs. Or, could I use one and use it as a center and use the Khanspires as L and R speakers? This way all three front speakers would use the RS225 drivers (and thus all three could be crossed over to the sub at 60H), but I wouldn't give up the sensitivity and dynamics that go with vertical WMTMW towers. Do you guys think that last combo would sound coherent across the front sound stage?

Thanks in advance!

[cjd]

The WTMW with RS225 should be voiced similarly to the Khanspires.

[---k---]

Go with the Khanspires for your mains. You want the added surface area that 2 RS150's give you. This will help give you more dynamic range and power for some of the most important part of the audio spectrum.

As CJD says, the RS225 WMTW center channel with CJD's crossover should match reasonably well for the center. Where you place the speaker will likely have the biggest impact on the tonality and coherency across the front (IE is there a 50" TV flush with the center channel or not).

BTW, if you're anywhere near Chicagoland, you're welcome to stop by and listen before building. You and CJD both need your location in your profile!

[jagman]

Sorry... I'm in Sacramento CA. Chicagoland is a bit of a drive . Too bad as it would be fun to check them out.

The new mains and center will flank a 110" screen (I have an RS-1 front projector). The only non ideal placement issue is they will need to be quite close to the front wall hence the necessity of sealed speakers. This has nothing to do with WAF, more practicallity as the two mains will block access to symmetric hallways if pulled out too much (the hallways leave the loft in the front right and left corners). I will put OC703 equiped absorpters behind the speakers to help reduce bloated bass due to near wall proximity (and the OC03 is actually a couple inches off the wall to extend low end absorption). Aside from using the absorobers, should I increase the box size a little to account for near wall proximity? I would guess the rear of the enclosures will be 6" to 12" from the wall itself. Any other recommendations?

Thanks for the advice, guys. I really appreciate it .

[jagman]

Just a thought... since the dual mids on the Khanspires help decrease midrange distortion and increase sensitivity since one mid doesn't have to carry the load, why not do something simlar with a large CC? Jed has done several WMTMW CC's with the T and two M's forming a triange so as to get decent if not good off axis consistency. Doing a large CC like that with the RS speakers would really complement the Khanspires well and offer another option for those not limited by space. Plus, it would look pretty cool :T.

[FroDaddy]

jagman, have you considered an acoustically transparent screen? I'm not sure if I mentioned that in our PMs

[jagman]

I would love that but it would only be an option if it were a motorized roll down screen. Since they are expensive and can be prone to wrinkles, I tend to prefer the simplicity of a wall mount screen (plus I already have one).

[jagman]

FroDaddy.. .

I do like your CC a lot. I really like the idea of porting your CC and making the mids open like the large Statement towers, but if I move, it will unfortunately no longer be an option. I'm glad this wrinkle occured before I started the build. The main issue I have is dealing with the surrounds. Hanging 4 monitors from the ceiling in a non-dedicated common room will be a hard sell (not to mention difficult to implement). The in wall In-Khan-Neatos would make things much easier. It's too bad there isn't a Statement Line in-wall monitor oke:. Realistically, since this new room is wide open to prying hands, the Founteks might now be a risk that I didn't have to deal with before.

[Jim Holtz]

It's too bad there isn't a Statement Line in-wall monitor oke:. Realistically, since this new room is wide open to prying hands, the Founteks might now be a risk that I didn't have to deal with before.

Open back - in wall? Naw, that'll never work. :B All of the rear wave would be going into another room, between studs. who knows where?

Founteks are covered with a grill so prying fingers can't get to the ribbon element. The biggest thing to worry about is your significant other vacuuming them. Ribbon elements do not like to be vacuumed.

Jim

[jagman]

Good to know . Seriously, though, I've heard the Founteks are about as robust as ribbons get. As for the proposed in-wall Statements, obviously the mid would not have an open back (and I know you were joking). The in-walls would no doubt be a concession to make things work. Your monitors with the open back near but not too close to a reflectant wall would be ideal.

[Jim Holtz]

Good to know . Seriously, though, I've heard the Founteks are about as robust as ribbons get. As for the proposed in-wall Statements, obviously the mid would not have an open back (and I know you were joking). The in-walls would no doubt be a concession to make things work. Your monitors with the open back near but not too close to a reflectant wall would be ideal.

Yes, I was joking about the in-walls.

Actually, I'm using Statements Monitors mounted on my rear side walls as surrounds and they work extremely well. They're too close to the wall if they were mains but not bad for surrounds. Even though they're small in comparison to the Statements or the Mini's, they're still big for surrounds.

Jim

[---k---]

The new mains and center will flank a 110" screen (I have an RS-1 front projector). The only non ideal placement issue is they will need to be quite close to the front wall hence the necessity of sealed speakers. This has nothing to do with WAF, more practicallity as the two mains will block access to symmetric hallways if pulled out too much (the hallways leave the loft in the front right and left corners). I will put OC703 equiped absorpters behind the speakers to help reduce bloated bass due to near wall proximity (and the OC03 is actually a couple inches off the wall to extend low end absorption). Aside from using the absorobers, should I increase the box size a little to account for near wall proximity? I would guess the rear of the enclosures will be 6" to 12" from the wall itself. Any other recommendations?

Actually, they are designed to be close to the wall. Not necessarily on the wall, but close. I think there is about a 8" gap between the rear wall and the back of my speaker right now (front baffle 22"). So, I wouldn't worry about bloated bass. You could always decrease the inductor size if you want to push them right up against the wall.

The boxes are already sized significantly large for maximum bass extension. You definitely do not need to increase the box size. Some might want to make the box slightly smaller so that the bass is punchier.

As for the center channel with dual mids, CJD tried to talk me into it, but there is a WAF factor for me. I'm sure if you build the box, CJD would design it. Also, I think the whole "center channel is the most important channel" is over done.


JIM,
How close can you put the Statements near the wall? I thought I read that 12" would work?


I would love for more people to build the Khans, but if you want the Statements, I bet they can work for you.

[FroDaddy]

I would love that but it would only be an option if it were a motorized roll down screen. Since they are expensive and can be prone to wrinkles, I tend to prefer the simplicity of a wall mount screen (plus I already have one).

Ahh, just wondering how that would work out for you since with an acoustically transparent screen you can have a 3rd tower speaker as your center channel.

FroDaddy.. .

I do like your CC a lot. I really like the idea of porting your CC and making the mids open like the large Statement towers, but if I move, it will unfortunately no longer be an option. I'm glad this wrinkle occured before I started the build. The main issue I have is dealing with the surrounds. Hanging 4 monitors from the ceiling in a non-dedicated common room will be a hard sell (not to mention difficult to implement). The in wall In-Khan-Neatos would make things much easier. It's too bad there isn't a Statement Line in-wall monitor . Realistically, since this new room is wide open to prying hands, the Founteks might now be a risk that I didn't have to deal with before.

Thanks for the compliment! It's really a Jim/Curt/Wayne design with a few changes by Jed to adapt it to a completely sealed box though. ops:

I've heard the Khanspires a lot and they are great speakers; I think you'd be happy with those! I also like the RS225 woofers, and definitely prefer the Khan's over the WTMW center channel. Not to take away anything from that design, but the Khan's are special. I apologize ahead of time by adding to your dilemma by saying the previous sentence!

[Jim Holtz]

JIM,
How close can you put the Statements near the wall? I thought I read that 12" would work?

Hi Ryan,

18" is optimum but 12" will work with some soundstage degradation. I would not recommend closer than that. The Monitors I have mounted on the walls for surrounds have about 10" clearance pointing to where the ceiling and wall meet. I certainly would discourage that kind of positioning for mains but for surround duty, they throw a large envelope of sound.

Jim

[cjd]

Fro, there are 4 crossover designs for the WTMW center. :P Which did you hear?

[FroDaddy]

Fro, there are 4 crossover designs for the WTMW center. :P Which did you hear?

Pretty sure it was the Dennis xover. Not trying to stir the pot, just an opinion

[kirknelson]

Fro, there are 4 crossover designs for the WTMW center. :P Which did you hear?

Is there a certain crossover design that would mate better with the Khans than the others?

I was planning on building the Khancenter to match the Khanspires I'll be building, however, I'm not limited on space as Ryan was. If there is a WTMW crossover that would mate as well as the KhanC I wouldn't mind the added dynamics and extension of the larger drivers.

[---k---]

Yes. It is probably confusing. But, there are 3 or 4 crossovers for that design:
Curt Campbell's
Dennis Murphy's
CJD's: http://www.htguide.com/forum/showpos...1&postcount=83
Jon Marsh's.

Find the link to CJD's, and it will probably match the best. The others would likely match decently, but might not be voiced exactly the same. CJD's is kind-of complex. Brian Bunge built one with CJD's crossover and used it with his version of CJD's big RS 3-way towers and liked it.

Also, remember that placement of the center will play a BIG role in the way it sounds. The Khancenter MUST have a TV or something similar over or under it. This was how the measurements were taken and how it was designed. Without a TV or something, it sounds lean. I'm sure the other center channels have similar or opposite issues. Its that dreaded baffle step consideration. Though, with room correcting receivers these days, it isn't the end of the world, just another compromise.

[kirknelson]

The Khancenter MUST have a TV or something similar over or under it. This was how the measurements were taken and how it was designed. Without a TV or something, it sounds lean.

Good to know. The center will be sitting in free space on a stand in front of my projection screen, so it sounds like Chris's crossover in the WTMW is the way for me to go.

[jagman]

Also, remember that placement of the center will play a BIG role in the way it sounds. The Khancenter MUST have a TV or something similar over or under it.

I didn't know that but thank you for pointing it out. I plan on having my CC on a stand below a screen, too. My only problem now is the bank that owns the house I put an offer on went with another offer. Very frustrating considering the offer they went with was less than ours. Hard to compete with somone putting 65% down.

[cjd]

I do have data for the Khancenter without the screen above, but haven't worked all the way through the crossover. So many projects...