My Story - Hearing, Beliefs and Blind Testing

[Johnloudb]

I'd like to share some experiences I've had with my hearing, and also what I've learned about how we really hear sounds. I developed Tinnitus and Hyperacusis (increased sound sensitivity) as a result of power line noise hurting my ears. In seeking help I learned about the Jastreboff model for hearing.

I wrote a paper about my experiences and how I think the Jastreboff model answers some questions regarding subjective vs. objective listening tests. You can read my paper here: My Website

It's kind of a long paper so I give my thanks now to anyone who reads it. ;x(

Anyway, I've been hanging around the forum (the best forum) for a couple years now, and I've really enjoyed seeing all the great projects that you all have built and shared here. :T
It seems like a good time to share this with all the blind testing going on. I think extended listening blind tests like Zaph is doing is very informative. Especially in when listening for non-linear distortion which sometimes can become very irritating over time. This depends a lot on the types of distortion I think.

I also think Amphiprion's phase shift audibility challenge very informative ... I thought it would be easy to hear phase shift, but it wasn't at all. In extended listening it might be audible but I think it depends a lot on the quality of the distortion produced - like if it is irritating or pleasant sounding.

Also, I'm not arguing cable audibility or non-audibility in my paper. Just pointing out the need for blind testing.

[stangbat]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to look into TRT a little more. I have tinnitus, but thankfully I don't have hyperacusis. I was actually Googling tinnitus last week to see if there was anything that could help me.

I also have hearing loss, especially my right ear. I have about a 10-15 dB loss from 4-8 kHz in my right ear (left is okay) and basically no hearing above 13 kHz in either ear. Thankfully, at this point the loss is not enough to effect my daily life or music enjoyment. I do know that I damaged my hearing from being stupid when I was younger: concerts, guns, fireworks. Not all at the same time though.

The tinnitus does not greatly bother me, I've had it for quite a while, probably at least 15 years. I can always hear it if I pay attention to it. It is like having a 13 kHz tone playing constantly. And yes, I have verified it is 13 kHz, the joys of being an audiophile. For some reason it seems to be a little more annoying lately, but I don't think anything has changed, I'm probably just paying more attention to it. Like I stated earlier, it doesn't make my life miserable at all, but if I could get rid of it or reduce it I definitely would.

Finally, the last year has taught me how much our brain effects what we "hear". My mood often also seems to effect how things sound and some days the stereo just doesn't sound right even though nothing has changed. When that happens, it is best to just turn it off and come back later.

[mpotoka]

Very interesting read--thank you for sharing!

[Alaric]

concerts, guns, fireworks. Not all at the same time though.

You need to go to better concerts! Just kidding. My hearing used to be at the outer limits of human hearing , and I was proud of it. It seems I've lost a good bit of that edge now , and I wonder if my "need" to upgrade is actually looking for sounds I'll never hear again regardless of equipment.

[Johnloudb]

Thanks for the info. I'm going to have to look into TRT a little more. I have tinnitus, but thankfully I don't have hyperacusis. I was actually Googling tinnitus last week to see if there was anything that could help me.

I also have hearing loss, especially my right ear. I have about a 10-15 dB loss from 4-8 kHz in my right ear (left is okay) and basically no hearing above 13 kHz in either ear. Thankfully, at this point the loss is not enough to effect my daily life or music enjoyment. I do know that I damaged my hearing from being stupid when I was younger: concerts, guns, fireworks. Not all at the same time though.

The tinnitus does not greatly bother me, I've had it for quite a while, probably at least 15 years. I can always hear it if I pay attention to it. It is like having a 13 kHz tone playing constantly. And yes, I have verified it is 13 kHz, the joys of being an audiophile. For some reason it seems to be a little more annoying lately, but I don't think anything has changed, I'm probably just paying more attention to it. Like I stated earlier, it doesn't make my life miserable at all, but if I could get rid of it or reduce it I definitely would.

Finally, the last year has taught me how much our brain effects what we "hear". My mood often also seems to effect how things sound and some days the stereo just doesn't sound right even though nothing has changed. When that happens, it is best to just turn it off and come back later.

13kHz :T Well, the good news is that all tinnitus can be treated. And sometimes reversing it requires ear devices that a TRT doctor has to prescribe. There's a list of TRT trained doctors on Dr. Hazell's website. Try listening to it for short periods of time like even 10 seconds in quiet room, and see how you feel emotionally about it, a couple times a day and actively think good thoughts. I know it sounds strange but doing this helps reverse these reflexes (desensitizes your ears to the sound).

My tinnitus is worse sometimes than others and it changes in quality. It's just part of my condition and I really don't think much of it anymore. It's like the least of my problems, right now. I have nothing to complain about though, things are going very well.

[Johnloudb]

Very interesting read--thank you for sharing!

You're welcome, I'm glad you found it interesting.

[bigburner]

the last year has taught me how much our brain effects what we "hear". My mood often also seems to effect how things sound and some days the stereo just doesn't sound right even though nothing has changed.

Exactly.

[bigburner]

I wrote a paper about my experiences and how I think the Jastreboff model answers some questions regarding subjective vs. objective listening tests. You can read my paper here: My Website

John, that is a most interesting paper. Your opinions on our mutual hobby are amongst the most sensible I have ever read. Thank you.

Best wishes,
Nigel.

[alias2]

FWIW dither should be applied at the AtoD or 16 bit truncation stage of a CD
recording, not after the fact in the DtoA replay. Random low bit dither allows
non-random signals in the recording to be heard into the noise floor, it also
gives a "sound" to the noise floor, this is not possible after the fact, all you
can do is try and "mask" something that is intrinsically not correct.

/alias2.

[evilskillit]

Good thread Johnloudb. I have noticed over the last few years that I hear a medium high pitched ringing in my ears when its really quiet and there is nothing else for me to ear. Probably from all the same things that gave it to you. Too many concerts, loud stereos, fireworks. I didn't get into guns untill I learend to apprecaite hearing protection fortunately.

I don't notice it 95% of the time, but if I'm by myself and its quite, like when I'm trying to go to sleep. It is pretty noticable. Sometimes to the point of annoying me and keeping me awake. But the slightest amount of background noise will distract me from it / drown it out. Even the tv or a radio on its lowest volume setting is enough.

It would be interesting if there was anything that could be done to reverse it. Previously I had read that it was not reversable so I will have to look into it again. Its not the sort of thing that I NEED to get taken care of but it certainly wouldnt hurt.

[---k---]

John,

I'm getting an error trying to view your article. It could be just me, but that would be odd.

Adobe Reader reports: "The file is damaged and could not be repaired."

[wkhanna]

John,

Thank you for posting your article.

One of the best reads concerning our hobby/passion I have read in ages.

Kuddos to you, my friend!

Well Done!

[Johnloudb]

John, that is a most interesting paper. Your opinions on our mutual hobby are amongst the most sensible I have ever read. Thank you.

Best wishes,
Nigel.

Nigel, Thanks for your positive comments ... it's much appreciated!

[Johnloudb]

John,

Thank you for posting your article.

One of the best reads concerning our hobby/passion I have read in ages.

Kuddos to you, my friend!

Well Done!

Thanks very much Bill, and everyone else for your kind words. I've just had some experiences with my hearing that kind of opened my eyes on some audiophile issues, and of course there is all the research and work of Dr. Jastreboff and Jonathan Hazell.

[Johnloudb]

John,

I'm getting an error trying to view your article. It could be just me, but that would be odd.

Adobe Reader reports: "The file is damaged and could not be repaired."

I'm not sure what the problem might be. Maybe your Adobe reader needs to be updated? If you're still having problems with the file PM me your email address and I'll send it to you in a different format. I can send as a .odt or .doc word processor files.

Is anyone else having this problem?

[bluewizard]

I'm curious, did you ever put an oscilloscope on the outputs of the amp to verify that there was something there causing a problem?

While I certainly don't doubt you, it seems funny that there would be something so intense as to hurt your hearing, yet something that you couldn't obviously hear.

Again, I don't doubt you, but I'm curious to know exactly what the problem was and what its intensity was. Since you couldn't obviously hear it, it has to be sub-sonic or ultra-high harmonic. Considering it was related to the power source, sub-sonic would seem most likely, but still it would be nice to know exactly what and at what intensity.

Perhaps, you covered that in your PDF, I read part of it but didn't get a chance to finish.

Steve/bluewizard

[Johnloudb]

Good thread Johnloudb. I have noticed over the last few years that I hear a medium high pitched ringing in my ears when its really quiet and there is nothing else for me to ear. Probably from all the same things that gave it to you. Too many concerts, loud stereos, fireworks. I didn't get into guns untill I learend to apprecaite hearing protection fortunately.

I don't notice it 95% of the time, but if I'm by myself and its quite, like when I'm trying to go to sleep. It is pretty noticable. Sometimes to the point of annoying me and keeping me awake. But the slightest amount of background noise will distract me from it / drown it out. Even the tv or a radio on its lowest volume setting is enough.

It would be interesting if there was anything that could be done to reverse it. Previously I had read that it was not reversable so I will have to look into it again. Its not the sort of thing that I NEED to get taken care of but it certainly wouldnt hurt.

The prevailing view held by doctors used to be that tinnitus was permanent and couldn't be treated. But, that's not true. I suggest start off by reading this article by Dr. Hazell (http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/THC1.htm). Also it is recommend that people with tinnitus or hyperacusis avoid silence for extended periods of time. Here is some information on sound enrichment (http://www.tinnitus.org/home/frame/THC1.htm).

If you listen the ringing in quiet places for short periods of time and evaluate how you feel about it, you can gradually habituate to sound. Listening to it and thinking good thoughts is how you habituate to the sound. It can take a long time though. Sometimes completely getting rid of tinnitus requires ear devices (WSGs), but they are like $2000 a pair. They have an opening that also lets outside sounds in.

FWIW dither should be applied at the AtoD or 16 bit truncation stage of a CD
recording, not after the fact in the DtoA replay. Random low bit dither allows
non-random signals in the recording to be heard into the noise floor, it also
gives a "sound" to the noise floor, this is not possible after the fact, all you
can do is try and "mask" something that is intrinsically not correct.

/alias2.

Yeah, but I'm looking at it from the perspective of how we hear. CDs have 24 bit DACs and adding some noise those last 8 bits can change the noise spectrum since noise is additive. You could even through out those last two bits on some recordings by burying them in noise. This wouldn't have to even be done in the digital domain. You could even inject some analog noise at output.

LPs have higher dynamic range than CDs in the high frequencies, but lower dynamic range in the low frequencies. So LP noise decreases with higher frequency. CDs have a fairly flat noise spectrum and this type of noise can sound hissy.

Having a pleasant sounding noise you here all the time that is also emanating from the speakers, I think would be helpful to some bright sounding CDs. Our ears also filter out sounds of no particular importance that we hear all the time, but it would act as sound enrichment to make these noises and distortions on CDs more tolerable.

Like with that Playstation PS1 that many people were raving about. The measurements in Stereophile showed the last two bits were buried in noise. I bought one on ebay and the high frequencies were very pleasant, analog like. But it didn't have the resolution of a modern DAC.

I think some added noise might be a nice tone control.

[Johnloudb]

I'm curious, did you ever put an oscilloscope on the outputs of the amp to verify that there was something there causing a problem?

While I certainly don't doubt you, it seems funny that there would be something so intense as to hurt your hearing, yet something that you couldn't obviously hear.

Again, I don't doubt you, but I'm curious to know exactly what the problem was and what its intensity was. Since you couldn't obviously hear it, it has to be sub-sonic or ultra-high harmonic. Considering it was related to the power source, sub-sonic would seem most likely, but still it would be nice to know exactly what and at what intensity.

Perhaps, you covered that in your PDF, I read part of it but didn't get a chance to finish.

Steve/bluewizard

Hi, sorry I missed your post earlier. The brain just turns up the gain on some sounds, that are "unnatural." Probably sounds that are not indigenous to our environment. This sound wasn't obvious - if I had listened up close to the noise coming from the speaker, I think it would have hurt my ears but I didn't.

I didn't measure the noise, though I'm suspecting ground noise. I don't think we ever lifted the ground on the amps and we have unshielded ground wires running throughout the house picking up noise. It does seem strange that such a quiet noise could hurt. Once you start designing preamps you learn how sensitive the ear is to even some of the quietest noises and distortions.

The preamp I mentioned in the paper also produced a noise (battery noise) that hurt my ears. It was very frustrating, because the overall sound quality was very good. If I turned up the volume and listened up close to the noise from the speaker, after listening my ears would feel hurt. Some other sounds would also be irritating to my ears for a few hours after listening.

Anyone that's had hyperacusis knows how sensitive the ears can be to even the quietest sounds. Some people who dislike the sound of modern music leaking from other peoples headphones sometimes develop hyperacusis to that sound.

[---k---]

I was able to download it on my home computer. Interesting. I too find myself more sensitive to some sound than most people. I don't think it comes any near your level. But, it gave me something to think about.

[Johnloudb]

I was able to download it on my home computer. Interesting. I too find myself more sensitive to some sound than most people. I don't think it comes any near your level. But, it gave me something to think about.

People who spend a lot time in loud environments have less overall sensitivity, I think. One doctor I saw said I had really large ear canals, so that may help me hear quiet sounds. Not sure it would affect overall sensitivity. I don't really know how the mechanical ear affects sensitivity, so I don't want to speculate to much.

[Hdale85]

One of the biggest things I've found that effect sound quality when listening to my system is how I feel. Sometimes if I'm really tired I can put on my stereo and it just doesn't sound that great at all. It always surprises me by how much exhaustion and other things can effect things like hearing and even sight!

I'll have to read over your paper sometime Not much time lately though haha.

[bigburner]

It's time that this thread degenerated into personal hobby horses. Here's mine from John's paper...

Tone Controls

Often audiophiles find that some of their favorite music is of less than stellar recording quality. A favorite of mine, Cinderella's "A Long Cold Winter,” is particularly bright. I used to just tough it out and listen to it since my preamp had no tone controls. Given what I know now, I think it's unnatural. People need some control over tone of their system.

In the absence of tone controls what other way is there to control the sound of different recordings? None! I never had any qualms about using tone controls of my car stereo (a better stereo) for certain recorded material. I found them quite useful. Right now, there are recordings I just won't listen to because my ears won't tolerate the brightness.

I won't get into all the other good reasons Dennis Colin mentioned for needing tone controls. But, I'll add one more - ear damage. The other day my dad wanted to hear the bass line on some classical piece and turned up the volume pretty loud. He said he hurt his ears a bit in doing so. I doubt he did any real damage, as he didn't listen that long.

A bass, treble, and tilt control would do the trick, I think. And you can always include a bypass switch for recordings that don't need help. How about adjustable L-pads on tweeters?

This worrying (that's the key word here) about that extra switch, resistor, or solder joint in the signal path misses the big picture. In the recording/mastering process, as Dennis Colin pointed out, the music signal travels though lots of resistors, caps, cables, op-amps, solder joints, processors and so-on. Moreover, I think the reason many audiophile tweaks have gained so much importance, in part, is due to absence of tone controls?

Way to go John!

Nigel.

[Briz vegas]

Very interesting read.

re
Sometimes completely getting rid of tinnitus requires ear devices (WSGs), but they are like $2000 a pair.

2 grand a pair. Mate AB test a pair against $2 earbuds and home made sounds on an Ipod Nano. It will blow WSGs out of the water. WSG is a rip off and snake oil :rofl:

Hobby horse, I don't have any hobby horses ops:

[fbov]

A natural tendancy to ask what makes one "tick" caused me to investigate vision when I became an amateur astronomer, and thus leads to curiosity regarding our aural processes now. Toole's book on room effects is fascinating; I just started a second read to see what I missed. John's story is heart rending at the personal level but raises tremendous questions since it goes past the simple physiology of hearing to the wholistic aspects of sound - why we like hearing certain things (like music).

From personal experience, I can tell you that tinnitus is somewhat psychological; I can turn it on and off. In a quiet room, I could make it deafening right now. It'll go away because I'll forget about it and habituate. There are also certain songs that have always had an effect on me, regardless where or when I hear them. Also consider that a simple speech-feedback system has been shown to eliminate stuttering in seriously afflicted individuals.

We know a lot about vision because we have optical tools that allow us to characterize optics, and one does not have to rely on words to describe what one sees, one can draw it. We know that a lot of the processing is done at the retina and in the optic nerve, and that there is a verified chemical cycle of rhodopsin bleaching of four different receptors that explain differences in sensitivity and color perception.

In sound, what is the analog to color? Spatial and temporal frequency response, and impulse response are corrallaries, Fletcher-Munson-type curves correspond to photopic/scotopic light sensitivities. I need to learn more...

Thanks for the push, John!

Frank

PS $2 ear buds will cause more problems than they cure. I don't get a decent seal below ~$30 and prefer ones closer to $100, but even that's not in the league with a professionally fitted device. Ever hear of generic dentures?

[Johnloudb]

Way to go John!

Nigel.

Thanks Nigel!,

Despite my strong words regarding tone controls, I still don't have any. I'm going to design some into this sub crossover I'm working on. Obviously people can get by without them for much material. But, I think audio companies should consider tone controls essential on a preamp. A small turn a tone control can help a lot of recordings. Dennis Colin, a big proponent of tone controls, mentioned other reasons in his AudioXpress articles. Often record producers attenuate the bass, even on classical recordings. And the Fletcher-Munson effect - when listening at below live playback levels the bass frequencies are perceived as quieter than than the mids and treble.

Very interesting read.

re
Sometimes completely getting rid of tinnitus requires ear devices (WSGs), but they are like $2000 a pair.

2 grand a pair. Mate AB test a pair against $2 earbuds and home made sounds on an Ipod Nano. It will blow WSGs out of the water. WSG is a rip off and snake oil :rofl:

Hobby horse, I don't have any hobby horses ops:

Ha, Ha ... WSGs produce a specific type of white noise that helps increase brain plasticity. It's not just white noise or pink noise. The have to be prescribed by a TRT trained doctor, to get them matched to the individuals hearing. They also have an opening at the bottom to allow outside sound in without any obstruction.

A natural tendancy to ask what makes one "tick" caused me to investigate vision when I became an amateur astronomer, and thus leads to curiosity regarding our aural processes now. Toole's book on room effects is fascinating; I just started a second read to see what I missed. John's story is heart rending at the personal level but raises tremendous questions since it goes past the simple physiology of hearing to the wholistic aspects of sound - why we like hearing certain things (like music).

From personal experience, I can tell you that tinnitus is somewhat psychological; I can turn it on and off. In a quiet room, I could make it deafening right now. It'll go away because I'll forget about it and habituate. There are also certain songs that have always had an effect on me, regardless where or when I hear them. Also consider that a simple speech-feedback system has been shown to eliminate stuttering in seriously afflicted individuals.

We know a lot about vision because we have optical tools that allow us to characterize optics, and one does not have to rely on words to describe what one sees, one can draw it. We know that a lot of the processing is done at the retina and in the optic nerve, and that there is a verified chemical cycle of rhodopsin bleaching of four different receptors that explain differences in sensitivity and color perception.

In sound, what is the analog to color? Spatial and temporal frequency response, and impulse response are corrallaries, Fletcher-Munson-type curves correspond to photopic/scotopic light sensitivities. I need to learn more...

Thanks for the push, John!

Frank

PS $2 ear buds will cause more problems than they cure. I don't get a decent seal below ~$30 and prefer ones closer to $100, but even that's not in the league with a professionally fitted device. Ever hear of generic dentures?

I haven't read Toole's book ... I'll definitely have to check that out. Thanks.

I think those who mentioned having tinnitus on this board are not particularly bothered by it. But, that's not true of everyone. Some people have trouble focusing on anything but their tinnitus. And we can't consciously focus on more that one thing at a time. It's more than psychological, it's physiological. Think about trying read a book while in the same room as a Black Mamba Snake. This wouldn't be a problem if you're ready to die. :B

If you don't find tinnitus bothersome you tend to tune it out when not listening for it. That's called Habituation of Reaction. Habituation of Perception is when you can't hear the sound even when listening for it. And this is also achievable.

There are many causes of tinnitus. And tinnitus doesn't really follow the same rules of other sounds. It follows you around, maybe bothers you in quiet rooms where you previously enjoyed silence. That sets up these conditioned reflexes that we have little control over. Good thoughts help reverse the cycle as do the ear devices.

I've had really loud ringing of all kinds. For me it's just part of doing more and reducing these sensitivities. But, I've also gone through long periods of time when I had no audible tinnitus even in quiet rooms. Right now I have some audible tinnitus when I listen for it.

Have you ever traveled a familiar root to say school or a job. And when you get there you can't remember any of the trip. Maybe you had your mind on something else at the time. Conditioned Reflexes. :T

[Johnloudb]

One of the biggest things I've found that effect sound quality when listening to my system is how I feel. Sometimes if I'm really tired I can put on my stereo and it just doesn't sound that great at all. It always surprises me by how much exhaustion and other things can effect things like hearing and even sight!

I'll have to read over your paper sometime Not much time lately though haha.

I always do worse when I'm stressed or tired.

Yeah, I never expected people to just drop everything and read my paper. But I really appreciate people checking it out, when they have time.

[Steve Goff]

I've suffered from hyperacusis for 8 or 9 years, in my case involving sensitivity to high-frequency sounds (above about 1.5kHz), and have often contemplated TRT. Thanks for sharing your story and your paper.

[Johnloudb]

Steve,

One thing that really helps is to avoidance of silence, at least for extended periods of time. And, definitely check out the "Sound Enrichment" link on Dr. Hazel's web page: www.tinnitus.org

Good thoughts are of course are most important. It can be expensive but if possible see a TRT trained doctor. TRT has been proven as an effective treatment in double blind tests, so this isn't snake oil.

Best Wishes,

John

[AJINFLA]

Jon,

Have you considered using a sound editor to eq out the excessive brightness on your offending CD's?
It might not make Cinderella any less painful to listen to, but it should tame the over exuberance mastered at the studio.
Thanks for the interesting read.

cheers,

AJ

[Johnloudb]

Jon,

Have you considered using a sound editor to eq out the excessive brightness on your offending CD's?
It might not make Cinderella any less painful to listen to, but it should tame the over exuberance mastered at the studio.
Thanks for the interesting read.

cheers,

AJ

I haven't tried that, interesting idea though. Yeah, Cinderella probably needs more than a little equalization but I may give it try on some CDs. Then burn them on a new disc. I have a Mac ... I wonder if Garage Band will do the EQ? It should I think. Thanks, I'll give it a try.

[stangbat]

I've messed with EQing some songs with Audacity. A lot of rock from the 80s is poorly mastered, but not clipped and compressed like a lot of the stuff today. So you have some room to play with and maybe add some bass that is lacking or tame down the treble. I haven't done a lot of it, and I'm not greatly skilled with using Audacity, but I figured why not? And the latest beta versions of Audacity let you edit and save FLAC, which is how I store my digital audio, so it makes it all that much easier. Plus my receiver has a USB input so I can sit right where I listen, edit on my media PC, and listen to the results right away.

What made me finally do this was when I purchased the remastered version of "1984" by Van Halen. I'd had good luck with some other remastered albums, but this one was a disappointment. They basically kept the same poor mastering and just compressed it and made it louder. So I figured that I may as well take the original version that I had and EQ it with Audacity to sound like I think it should. Yeah, purists may cringe. And it may only sound good to me and on my speakers, but obviously I wasn't going to get satisfaction from the recordings that were available. It is never going to sound as good as if it was recorded and mastered correctly in the first place, but now I can at least listen to it.

[digital desire]

A tinnitus sufferer here.
Worse, I have tubes in my ears - that probably puts a much higher demand on my subwoofer, as the tubes do not let my ears pressurize the way low frequency's do. my ENT's hearing test only goes to 200hz, and she said that I am the first person to comment on lf loss with tubes. Much searching on the net has yielded very little on the subject. Can't wait for the tubes to fall out and the hole to fill in.

My ENT has told me I will have ringing ears up until the moment I die. Perhaps longer. I have not been kind to my ears, and now pay a continual price. Years of flying old, beat up freighters powered by huge radial engines, concerts (the rolling stones in particular in the Steel Wheels tour was horrendously loud - my ears actually hurt for a week after that, and the entire show had my fingers in my ears)' too many watts in cars, etc.

The final straw that earned me a set of tubes 15 months ago was the result of flying an un-pressurized turboprop with a bad cold. Literally had blood coming out of one ear, and the resultant baro-trauma.

Sucks. The ultimate irony, finally got a kick ass system that is more accurate and defined then anything I have ever had, and I am sure I am missing some portion of it. They tell me it sounds great.

Anyway, a couple things - what was it that the amp in question did wrong?

Also, you say you hear electrical activity in your ears. I do know that the heart sound you hear may be the actual blood flow through the tympanic membrane. This has been acute for me, and will supposedly go away when (if?) the tubes fall out. Most noticeable when my head is on a pillow.

[Steve Goff]

Steve,

One thing that really helps is to avoidance of silence, at least for extended periods of time. And, definitely check out the "Sound Enrichment" link on Dr. Hazel's web page: www.tinnitus.org

Good thoughts are of course are most important. It can be expensive but if possible see a TRT trained doctor. TRT has been proven as an effective treatment in double blind tests, so this isn't snake oil.

Best Wishes,

John

John,

I learned early on from the literature that general avoidance was the wrong approach, and have read about sound enrichment. I'm contemplating again whether to seek out TRT.

[Johnloudb]

I've messed with EQing some songs with Audacity. A lot of rock from the 80s is poorly mastered, but not clipped and compressed like a lot of the stuff today. So you have some room to play with and maybe add some bass that is lacking or tame down the treble. I haven't done a lot of it, and I'm not greatly skilled with using Audacity, but I figured why not? And the latest beta versions of Audacity let you edit and save FLAC, which is how I store my digital audio, so it makes it all that much easier. Plus my receiver has a USB input so I can sit right where I listen, edit on my media PC, and listen to the results right away.

What made me finally do this was when I purchased the remastered version of "1984" by Van Halen. I'd had good luck with some other remastered albums, but this one was a disappointment. They basically kept the same poor mastering and just compressed it and made it louder. So I figured that I may as well take the original version that I had and EQ it with Audacity to sound like I think it should. Yeah, purists may cringe. And it may only sound good to me and on my speakers, but obviously I wasn't going to get satisfaction from the recordings that were available. It is never going to sound as good as if it was recorded and mastered correctly in the first place, but now I can at least listen to it.

I just dowloaded Audacity for the mac, and will try some EQing. Thanks for the tip. :T

[Johnloudb]

A tinnitus sufferer here.
Worse, I have tubes in my ears - that probably puts a much higher demand on my subwoofer, as the tubes do not let my ears pressurize the way low frequency's do. my ENT's hearing test only goes to 200hz, and she said that I am the first person to comment on lf loss with tubes. Much searching on the net has yielded very little on the subject. Can't wait for the tubes to fall out and the hole to fill in.

My ENT has told me I will have ringing ears up until the moment I die. Perhaps longer. I have not been kind to my ears, and now pay a continual price. Years of flying old, beat up freighters powered by huge radial engines, concerts (the rolling stones in particular in the Steel Wheels tour was horrendously loud - my ears actually hurt for a week after that, and the entire show had my fingers in my ears)' too many watts in cars, etc.

The final straw that earned me a set of tubes 15 months ago was the result of flying an un-pressurized turboprop with a bad cold. Literally had blood coming out of one ear, and the resultant baro-trauma.

Sucks. The ultimate irony, finally got a kick ass system that is more accurate and defined then anything I have ever had, and I am sure I am missing some portion of it. They tell me it sounds great.

Anyway, a couple things - what was it that the amp in question did wrong?

Also, you say you hear electrical activity in your ears. I do know that the heart sound you hear may be the actual blood flow through the tympanic membrane. This has been acute for me, and will supposedly go away when (if?) the tubes fall out. Most noticeable when my head is on a pillow.

The amp was sensitive to some noise in our power line. It was clearly obvious that the sound quit hurting our ears as soon as we used it with a power line conditioner. I still listen to these same amps with the power conditioner, and the sound is very good. This system has really nice high frequencies now, with a couple tweeks I made to the speaker recently (3 small pieces of Sonex foam around edges of the tweeter) and room acoustics.

Unfortunately probably 90% or ENT doctors' stock answer for tinnitus is that it's permanent. That's not true. They just don't treat it, and most are not trained in TRT.

Obstacles to TRT:
1) Insurance doesn't cover it.
2) Treatment of tinnitus takes about 1 year usually.
3) Most ENT doctors are not trained in TRT although more schools are teaching it since Dr. Jastreboff and Dr. Hazell wrote a book a treatment about 6 years ago.

Tinnitus originates in the auditory pathways in the brain, and all tinnitus can be treated regardless of the cause. And the ear can hear all the electrical signals in the brain, but we don't because most of us are habituated to the sound.

I hope your tubes do fall out and you get to enjoy new sound system! :T

[Johnloudb]

John,

I learned early on from the literature that general avoidance was the wrong approach, and have read about sound enrichment. I'm contemplating again whether to seek out TRT.

That's great. I obviously avoided sounds and look where it got me.

The only treatment of pure tinnitus, when you haven't had phonophobia, is ear devices and sound enrichment. My cousin worked with a woman who had Hyperacusis and she got help from a TRT doctor, started wearing ear devices. In 7 months her hyperacusis was gone.

I don't use sound enichment but I do have my window cracked open to let outdoor sounds in at night. But sound enrichment has to be a pleasant sound you have no aversion to. Anyway, you already read about this.

Best,
John

[Johnloudb]

Hi John,
I read your article on Hearing beliefs and blind testing and enjoyed it. I too suffer from Tinnitus and have somehow been able to ignore it on the whole. My ears just magically started ringing at work one day and it has never stopped since. It was shortly after having a flu shot and I suspected that was the 'trigger'. As a matter of fact, every time I am about to get sick with a cold or flu, the tinnitus gets remarkably worse and louder!.

In your case, It looks like there were some major psychological issues at hand that caused you to have a very violent issue with the condition. I, at first did not like it but I have come to live with it and largely ignore it (We live in a loud World which helps!!). I too listen to a lot of music at pretty good volumes but it never hurts me to listen. I cannot now however, go into a bar and listen to a screechingly loud bar band blowing my ears out. I cannot do that kind of loud anymore and don't care because I never liked it anyway. I did do it when I was young and could tolerate it, but NOT anymore!. If I am about to go into a loud situation, I always bring cotton to put in my ears to control the volume.

I believe the better the sound system and it's adjustment/ setup is, the louder you can play it without auditory pain.

The cable thing is interesting but I have to disagree that there is 'cable break in'. I have changed cables and have heard differences (Especially in bass) but the cable, if anything gets worse over time and not better (10yrs+). I have had cable failures after more than 10yrs causing humming in the system because the internal fibers or end connections have simply begun to fail.

I wish you all the luck in your plight. With Tinnitus, you really have 2 choices. One is to learn to live with it and learn to ignore it (Which is a learned ability), and the other is to go simply insane. We humans have good survival abilities and in my case, insanity was not an option!!.

Thanks.

There are lots of causes of tinnitus, but that doesn't mean it can't be treated through retraining. Too much caffeine, medications, excessive sound exposure and so on ...

I'm glad you've made peace with your tinnitus, not an easy thing to do for some people. My tinnitus was initially caused by sound exposure as I explained. Since doing TRT I have had a period of two months where my tinnitus was not audible at all (habituation of perception). My tinnitus isn't a problem for me, and most of the time I'm not even aware of it, and you're probably the same way. Sometimes people can achieve habituation of perception, where it's not audible, but that's harder to achieve. Retaining conditioned reflexes can be difficult.

I never made any claims about cable break-in or cable audibility in my paper. I was just giving a possible explanation - based on the Jastreboff model - for why people do hear break-in, and claim it takes weeks or months to properly break-in a new cable. I don't claim that cables sound better or worse after break-in.

Thanks for wish me well ... I'm still moving forward and improving.

John

[AdelaaR]

Hope you guys may get better and I also hope people will read this and protect their hearing to avoid these conditions.
Especially when routing or drilling or circle sawing I often see people doing those things without ear protection which is completely crazy if you ask me.

I always protected my ears and so I do not have any problems with my hearing apart from normal high frequency loss due to aging. I'm actually not unhappy with that loss because I'm more sensitive to high frequencies than average.
On my old Pioneer SA-6300 amp I set the "loudness" to "on" and the "treble" to "-2" to make the sound more enjoyable to my ears.